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I finally catch up to the thread and we're discussing the morality of the Jacobins?  The Jacobins made an absolute ton of mistakes, and reaaaaaaally hosed up when it comes to how far they'd go to try and destroy the influence of the Church in France, but they're definitely on the lighter side of gray when it comes to the history of the French Revolution. And it's definitely important to not view the Jacobins as a single, unified group. Saint-Just was a far, far worse person than Marat, who was worse than Danton, who was worse than Desmoulins. And that's just talking about hard left Parisian revolutionaries. The assholes involved with suppressing the Vendee uprising were all about mass executions of non-combatants in a way seen almost nowhere else in the Terror. I'd rather be a Girondin than a Dantonist, but would rather die twice as a Dantonist than support nutcases like Hebert. And if I had to, I'd side with Robespierre over the reactionary emigres, considering how eager the nobility was to murder the poo poo out of everyone who didn't believe in unreconstructed absolute monarchy. So what I'm saying is, guillotine the Jizrunids, but also guillotine Tirruni and Al-Cyrahid, and when it all falls apart move to Ibriz along with all the other Twenty-Eighters.
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Feb 13, 2018 02:08
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GunnerJ posted:
Absolutely. What happens to the revolution if the liberal nobles accept that restricting the franchise to "active citizens" was a really bad idea, the anti-clericals accept that the Civil Constitution of the Clergy was a really bad idea, and the free marketeers realize that they're playing with fire by messing with the grain market? They probably make all different mistakes and things still fall apart, but who knows? As applies to the Majlis, we should clearly be trying to avoid those mistakes, so that we can discover new ways to fail.
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Feb 13, 2018 14:13
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TildeATH posted:Twenty-eighters??? How many imams do these drat Shi’a need?!? I was thinking that we'd be bounced out of Europe and land in Gharbia by 1828, just like the revolutionaries of 1848 coming to the US, but novel Shiite sects would be cool too. GunnerJ posted:This sort of framing as a "Paris revolution" also requires ignoring the political activity throughout the country that was in coordination with Parisian political clubs. True, but events in Paris certainly drove the overall thrust of the Revolution, from the women's March to the Girondin war fever to the Enrages and sans-cullottes overthrowing the Girondins in July 1893.
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Feb 13, 2018 17:44
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I agree with that. The Levee en Masse, for example, would never have worked with it being a national revolution.
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Feb 13, 2018 17:53
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Those Sunni zealots need to realize they'll be far better off accepting us as their secular authority than the Tirrunids. Of course, if they could realize that, they probably wouldn't be zealots.
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Mar 19, 2018 19:59
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AJ_Impy posted:We look only to Allah for our salvation, though blunting the Tirruni advance is everyone’s responsibility. You'd think that the fall of your false prophet would have made you reconsider your heresy, but apparently not. The Majilis have their issues, but none of them have gone so far as to claim that they stood equal with Muhammed, PBUH. You Takfiri seriously need to re-read the surahs.
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Mar 20, 2018 13:56
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AJ_Impy posted:You fight alongside those who deny the very existence of the Most Merciful! You break bread with those who would wipe Islam from the Earth! I name you Takfir, and as it is written, when two of the faithful name each other so, one of them is right. You're the one here treating your "Mahdi" like one of the Prophets, bub. You're acting like a Shiite.
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Mar 20, 2018 18:03
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I agree that the Madhi-ists should be purged from this vote. Those takfiri got what they deserved, and they don't get to slink back now and poison Al-Andalus again. AA, we need a Constitutuon and stick by our allies (and aim to inveigle ourselves into the Iberian court so we can take it over).
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Mar 26, 2018 03:49
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By 1837 we should be pretty well recovered if Tirruni doesn't go totally nuts and invade Smolensk and Novgorod at the same time.
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Mar 26, 2018 22:30
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Oh man, I am so looking forward to being an Islamic socialist when it comes time to write the constitution. Social welfare programs date back to the dawn of Islam, and think of all the good that could be done with zakat payments!
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Mar 27, 2018 19:14
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Supply problems probably prevent us from launching to the Balearic sea and landing in Tunis to avoid having to run the straight, huh.
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Mar 27, 2018 21:15
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Our army quality is pretty awesome, we don't have the ability to replace losses but so long as we don't lose a decisive battle we should be OK.
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Apr 2, 2018 15:27
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Yeah, Algiers to Cartagena is 231 miles. I think it's fair to say that doing it all in one go is unrealistic, but it's a pretty short distance that could be covered in about 20 hours at 10 knots. eta: Which means that the game is actually overestimating the travel time, since it takes more than a day to leave port and arrive offshore of Cartagena. Loading and unloading 100k troops + materiel is probably where the overwhelming amount of time is spent in an operation like this.
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Apr 16, 2018 16:07
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Meanwhile our manpower is dry. Losing that battle to relieve Toledo really hurt, those troops were hard to replace. On the other hand, we can run riot through North Africa for a few months. I've never played MotE, is there a "loot every last thing possible so that the war may feed itself" setting we can turn our troops to?
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Apr 22, 2018 01:26
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I'm unconcerned. The Moroccans are decadent sots, and were rightly punished for invading Toledo. What is it that those crazy Christians say? Deus Vult? Well, that's heretical, but we shall defeat these Almoravid drunks all the same, insh'allah.
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Apr 23, 2018 13:49
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Especially as the Almorovids have no manpower left except that they can pull from the colonies. We could see a full on colonial collapse. Too bad Gharbia doesn't remember from whence they came! Those gits should be helping us!
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Apr 23, 2018 21:40
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Hashim posted:I did briefly consider holding votes for what could've happened in ROTW whilst Europe burns, but it seemed like way too much of a hassle for just 10 or so years, so I'll probably leave everything as it ended in EU4, maybe with a couple random events thrown in or something. There's likely going to a congress opening up Victoria 2 anyways, to help decide the fates of the defeated nations and reshape the post-war world, so that's where most of my attention (and effort) will be going. So if, for example, the Almoravids are defeated badly enough, then we (but mostly the other victors) will have a part in deciding what'll happen to their empire then. I'm cool with DM fiat deciding what happened overseas, but this seems like a major inflection point in the history of the world. I feel like you should adjust results as you see fit without waiting on us Goons to gently caress it up.
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Apr 24, 2018 04:42
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Notahippie posted:The conspiracy theories written in the 20th century of this timeline are going to be awesome because they will be true. Who is the Mirabeau of the Majlis?
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May 1, 2018 13:02
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What's the Andalusi version of La Marseilles, because I feel the need to sing it at the top of my lungs. So long as those poxy Almoravid cretins don't have another huge army hiding by Marrakesh, things are looking up! Also, Smolensk/Russia is going to be a holy terror come Vicky 2. eta: Update on last page.
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May 10, 2018 19:40
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V. Illych L. posted:so uh how about that massive army bottled up in a fortress we're besieging They can't deploy to get local numerical superiority, I'd guess. Snipee posted:It's honestly looking quite worrying for our coalition. It's a good thing that Egypt is assisting because we would be completely screwed otherwise. We're probably fine so long as the French don't throw in with the Almoravids? The Tirruni Empire still seems hella strong.
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May 11, 2018 04:27
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NewMars posted:Truly, allah has cursed.. someone. Mostly us, but probably everyone from the looks of things. Allah has placed us in this crucible to test both our mettle and our faith. We shall come out of it stronger than ever before, insh'allah. Snipee posted:I am actually curious how much manpower each country has left. Morocco isn’t very populous, but they have apparently been shipping tens of thousands of Indians over to die in Europe. I'd love a screenshot of this as well. tunapirate posted:Idk; with the Germans breaking through the Alps (& supported by Hungarians), the war in Italy restarting, and the threat of France looming ... the biggest army we've seen of Tirruni's is a pair of 20k stacks. I think we've got the Almoravids in pretty bad shape right now, if we can beat them at Qatalunya that frees up the 60k Tirruni sent south to head back to Italy. We haven't seen Italy in a while, and I doubt that the 60k in Iberia is Tirruni's sole military strength. For one thing, he'd be trying to beat back the Germans rather than liberating our provinces. I could be wrong though, and northern Italy might all be under the Hannoveran thumb.
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May 11, 2018 13:51
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I'm cautiously optimistic, but drat does Hungary have a metric shitton of troops. Really going to come down to whether we can beat the Almoravids.
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May 12, 2018 15:26
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If we are to die, then we are to send every soul ahead of us. The Almoravids are decadent wine drinkers, and deserve the sword. May Allah have mercy on their sinful soulds.
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May 27, 2018 03:48
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So I'm sure some revanchists in the Majlis are considering peacing out with Morocco and backstabbing Tirunni. While this would clearly be an awful idea caused by some form of pox, what's the chances that we could retake the Iberian peninsula in the whole if we were to do so?
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May 27, 2018 17:10
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Hashim posted:Something happens in the next update that shifts the war decisively in favour of one side, so the war will definitely end soon. Tirruni marches on Moscow confirmed. 
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May 29, 2018 12:25
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Man, the revanchists of Europe are dicks. Tirruni is unlike Napoleon in that he was primarily on the defensive for most of his reign, while the so called divinely ordained on their thrones of gold threw their people into mass graves to halt the tide of history.Rodyle posted:You know credit where it is due, he may be about to lose but I think Tirruni may be a more impressive commander than Napoleon at this point? Entirely possible. I thought he was toast when the Russians entered, but it took literally every power in Europe and North Africa except us, the Celts, and the Scandinavians to beat him. And he probably could have held on for years longer if the French/English hadn't invaded.
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May 29, 2018 20:30
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The high estimates for deaths during the Napoleonic Wars is around 6m from 1803-1815 according to Wikipedia, and another 1.1m military dead for the wars of the French Revolution (1792-1802).
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May 29, 2018 20:49
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Doner on pizza would be pretty sweet. I'll miss the pepperoni, though.
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May 29, 2018 21:09
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AJ_Impy posted:Much easier to make a case for reunification if we’re in possession of the territory. This wandering Jew speaks sense. We should re-unite Iberia under our progressive, multicultural state. Allah clearly wills it.
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May 30, 2018 05:10
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If he gets the Maldives he's going to end up conquering India as it throws off the Almoravid Raj.
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May 30, 2018 21:21
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I'm still hoping for the best for Sahim Tirunni. He might not have been a great dude, but he was certainly a better dude than literally every other leader of a major power.
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May 31, 2018 04:02
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If I'm the Almoravids, I'm feeling my oats, saying that I basically won this war, and demanding all of Qattalunya, that Al Andalus not be allowed to keep the land gained from the Kingdom of Iberia (so I can make it a puppet state) and telling everyone else to gently caress off or come get some. They're going to be overweeningly arrogant, especially since they still control the manpower machine that is the Raj. What's France and/or Russia gonna do? Invade? Good luck, there's only one global power on the globe, and all revolves around Fes. Edit: What I'm saying is that we're left with nothing but Cadiz again, but cores on all of Iberia because of how the Almoravids did us dirty.
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Jun 4, 2018 03:03
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Pakled posted:However, they did just get their homeland invaded by a second-rate power (us) a few years ago, so that might temper their arrogance a bit. All the more reason to geld the Andalusi threat!
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Jun 4, 2018 03:15
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I'm also for making nice with Frangland. Even if they have a huge revolt in England they're still the lions share of OTL France and going to be a major power. We've been opposed in the past, but nothing like our ancient grudge with Morocco, and we're far enough advanced that nationalism becomes as important as religion in who we get along with.
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Jun 4, 2018 12:32
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Frangland seems like it should be our buddy in Constitutional rule. There's no way we ever get along with Morocco, and no one else is close enough to help us/secure one of our borders. We should support their efforts to unite the French in France so long as they support us in uniting Iberia. We should also make nice with Revolutionary Ibriz, they are our children and we can reconcile with them. We should clearly become an actually representative republic in the long run, since we've got no king and the Majlis can act as a superpowered Senate... and we don't want to act like those Almorovid spawns of Shaitan and have any sort of absolutism. habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Jun 4, 2018 |
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Jun 4, 2018 17:34
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How is what we've got that much different than the old HRE? The Majlis are electors, and the Grand Vizier rules for life. Shame on all these absolutists not recognizing a perfectly acceptable form of sovereignty.
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Jun 4, 2018 19:44
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Patter Song posted:
Would we have public meetings for the plebs? And the "parties" are really more factions amongst the majlis than what we'd consider political parties, though we might have to accept them to make it work with Vicky2's political system. I think you could make an argument against public meetings, for state press only, for unions being illegal, and for regular parties to be underground. Also, no no no to Almoravid kings. I'd rather kiss the Tsarina of Russia.
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Jun 4, 2018 21:02
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vyelkin posted:Tirruni III confirmed Only if he bungles his way through the first two or three times he tries to take the throne.
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Jun 4, 2018 23:38
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We did not depose despots to merely invite another to take their place. Raed Zulfiqar is a hero of our nation, and he knows well what it is to fight for the people. Long may he reign as Grand Vizier, but may the insult of Sultan never sully his good name. C I could be convinced to go B if we've getting a strong Constitution as a package deal. habeasdorkus fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jun 5, 2018 |
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Jun 5, 2018 20:08
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Zikan posted:Destabilizing too early is gonna result in an anarcho-liberal dictatorship lol What's the Arabic transliteration of Proudhon?
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Jun 5, 2018 20:15
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