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Chelb posted:A while ago I talked to somebody and they said something interesting. did they give any reasoning beyond perez having a hispanic last name?
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Jan 12, 2017 19:30
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The Muppets On PCP posted:did they give any reasoning beyond perez having a hispanic last name? Seriously, what is it with hopeful democrats and thinking that latin@ people are just one monoculture with no differences whatsoever?
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Jan 12, 2017 20:03
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enough hispanic people in the US are racially assimilable to white you're never going to get african-american levels of support, at least not until the white hispanics sort themselves out of the group also, if donald loving trump was unable to motivate hispanics to vote D at black people levels Tom Perez sure isn't going to be able icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 20:16
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I suspect Hispanic turnout is low because they don't have the same level of sophistication in their political organizations. In Arizona, we have that, and we had some modest victories.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:48
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:Seriously, what is it with hopeful democrats and thinking that latin@ people are just one monoculture with no differences whatsoever? well it worked for the blacks... *ignores that african-americans were a panoply of various cultures and ethnic groups forced into creating a shared identity*
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Jan 12, 2017 20:49
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Yeah, African American is one culture because every black person had their culture before a certain point taken away.
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Jan 12, 2017 20:58
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Fulchrum posted:Yeah, African American is one culture because every black person had their culture before a certain point taken away. No. African American is a variety of cultures comprising immigrants, creoles, regional differences, etc. We don't all celebrate Kwanzaa. We don't all celebrate Juneteenth. Politics is probably one of the few places where we largely agree on one thing.
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Jan 13, 2017 01:36
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African American/Black voters being 90%+ Democrat leaning has very little to do with what what Black voters have in common, and almost everything to do with what Republican party candidates have in common (Most of a century's worth of opposition to the Civil Rights Act)
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Jan 13, 2017 11:23
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Oh, I forgot there was a DNC chair thread. A few people I normally trust as progressive are involved with Jehmu's campaign. Anyone have an opinion on her?
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Jan 18, 2017 02:25
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Oh, I forgot there was a DNC chair thread. Greene has a solid history of of vote-registration and feminist advocacy. She's closely associated with Clinton; she worked on the campaigns of both Clintons (WJC in 96, HRC in 2008) and other Clinton allies like Mattox.
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Jan 18, 2017 02:59
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Well this is weird. 300 prominent american jewish figures have come out with a petition supporting Ellisson, but not endorsing him. http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/300-Jewish-leaders-sign-letter-supporting-Rep-Keith-Ellison-478580
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Jan 18, 2017 07:07
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Fulchrum posted:Well this is weird. It's not so weird when people try to bandy about antisemitism charges for not swinging from Israel's scrote. Setting the bar at support instead of endorse just allows them to get more folks signed on.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:39
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Fulchrum posted:Well this is weird. What's weird about it? They're not endorsing him, they're just saying he's not an anti-Semite.
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Jan 18, 2017 15:50
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The Muppets On PCP posted:did they give any reasoning beyond perez having a hispanic last name? I bet when they all go out to Mexican restaurants, he can order the food in their language.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:00
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The Muppets On PCP posted:did they give any reasoning beyond perez having a hispanic last name? Perez has a life-long history of work within the community and especially strong ties with the SEIU. The SEIU's membership is overwhelmingly hispanic and is a really good example of how to galvanize the hispanic population as a more unitary bloc. His work before becoming Labor secretary was at DoJ under Holder cleaning house in the social justice unit that has been fantastic under Obama and was a total and complete mess under the Bush Administration. I think either would be a great choice to lead the party and both have upsides and downsides.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:28
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The consensus I've been hearing from people who went to the forum was that Perez seems further left than they thought, and Ellison is further right than they thought. Almost as if the polarization isn't accurate and they're both fairly good candidates.
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Jan 18, 2017 20:59
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Regardless of where the candidates stand as individuals they are representatives for particular pressure groups or demographics within the Democratic coalition and you can't just wish away that part of the contest because it makes you feel uncomfortable or distracts from the illusion that politics is nothing but a technocratic exercise in selecting the most qualified individual available.
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Jan 18, 2017 22:28
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It's moot anyway since Perez's candidacy never really took off in the way that people anticipated. A month after he announced, and the only endorsement he has gained to add to the four governors and three unions he started with is the outgoing secretary of agriculture. So it seems like it's still Ellison's coronation, essentially.
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Jan 19, 2017 04:05
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Also, to add a new name to the participation trophy winners, we have Jehmu Greene, whose job up until last Thursday was as an analyst at Fox.
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Jan 19, 2017 04:11
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https://twitter.com/ZaidJilani/status/822930660675489792 In case it gets removed at some point: it's a video of a reporter chatting with Tom Perez about BDS and ultimately asking him how he feels about Israeli destruction of Palestinian homes, and Perez literally just walks away.
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Jan 22, 2017 16:33
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B B posted:https://twitter.com/ZaidJilani/status/822930660675489792 lol He's also still refusing to clarify his position on donations from corporate lobbyists.
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Jan 23, 2017 03:40
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I'm Hispanic and I'd much rather vote for Ellison. Suck on that, DNC.
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Jan 23, 2017 04:10
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Die Sexmonster posted:I'm white and I'd much rather vote for Ellison. Suck on that, DNC.
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Jan 23, 2017 08:42
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themrguy posted:I'm white and I slightly prefer Ellison but still like Perez and think both are fine honestly. Here's a hug, DNC.
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Jan 23, 2017 08:58
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Jan 23, 2017 09:20
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electing perez dnc chairman would be like bring spoon to a knife fight
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Jan 23, 2017 12:19
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I support Ellison because I fully recognize the existence of a leftist-corporatist split in the party and realize that Perez is the Obama-Clinton wing's horse in the race. So he can get hosed.
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Jan 23, 2017 12:36
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I mean I do prefer Ellison because he has experience running a campaign, but if you look at Perez's history it's kinda hard to deny he is a genuine progressive. That's why I find all the vitriol disappointing. It's not like John Corzine is running. The progressive wing of the party has probably never been more powerful in the last couple of decades.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:33
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If Ellison wasn't running, Perez would be a fantastic choice. He still is a fantastic choice. Ellison is just better.
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Jan 24, 2017 00:39
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When is this drat thing decided?
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Jan 24, 2017 02:17
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:When is this drat thing decided? The election is held between February 23rd and 26th. The election process is pretty complicated but the TL;DR version is that party insiders are the only ones who get to vote. You'll have to do some research on your own to figure out whom to call to voice your opinion if you're into that sort of thing.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:22
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:When is this drat thing decided? Feb. 26th.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:22
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Cool.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:37
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themrguy posted:I mean I do prefer Ellison because he has experience running a campaign, but if you look at Perez's history it's kinda hard to deny he is a genuine progressive. That's why I find all the vitriol disappointing. It's not like John Corzine is running. The progressive wing of the party has probably never been more powerful in the last couple of decades. Yeah. I personally appreciate Ellison's charisma and the message he would send as DNC chair, and thus prefer him, but Perez has plenty of accomplishments to his name as well and probably doesn't deserve some of the stuff being lobbed at him.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:38
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that is to say the corporatist criticism of Perez isn't entirely without merit. To be honest I just really don't care for the battle lines that got drawn between bernie/ellison and clinton/obama/perez and hope that we're still not talking about "bernie candidates" or "clinton candidates" come 2018
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Jan 24, 2017 02:48
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Chelb posted:that is to say the corporatist criticism of Perez isn't entirely without merit. To be honest I just really don't care for the battle lines that got drawn between bernie/ellison and clinton/obama/perez and hope that we're still not talking about "bernie candidates" or "clinton candidates" come 2018 There is value in establishment Democratic party figures getting kicked out of their positions by virtue of the fact that it means others will also fear getting kicked out of their positions. One of the biggest problems the Democrats have is there's no reason for establishment figures to listen to any of their constituents because they've made it hard to participate in the party itself, so the leaders aren't really being held accountable. Making them afraid for their jobs can only be a good thing.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:53
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My feeling is that even if they were nearly identical as people, the fact that Ellison has the support of the more left-leaning wing of the party and is generally perceived as representing more leftist interests is still significant and important, because him getting the position would sort of symbolically represent a potential increase in influence ad visibility for that portion of the party. It's sort of like how I thought Sanders and Clinton would have accomplished mostly the same things while in office, but Sanders being elected would have still been a symbolic victory in the sense that it would send a message that leftism/socialism is now more mainstream and viable. And even if Clinton's platform had been identical to his, it would still be better to elect him because it would send the message that Americans prefer the candidate that is perceived as more left-leaning, even if they actually weren't. So even if Ellison and Perez were identical, the mere fact that Ellison is perceived as more left-leaning makes his appointment worthwhile.
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Jan 24, 2017 03:02
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Ytlaya posted:My feeling is that even if they were nearly identical as people, the fact that Ellison has the support of the more left-leaning wing of the party and is generally perceived as representing more leftist interests is still significant and important, because him getting the position would sort of symbolically represent a potential increase in influence ad visibility for that portion of the party. On the other hand, Obama was generally perceived to be to the left of Hillary and a relative outsider to the Dem establishment (at compared to Hillary), and he didn't end up being a big triumph for leftists or anti-establishment, not even in messaging. In fact, I'd say the net effect was pretty bad, because people who had thought he would be more of a leftist were generally slow to change their opinions, so for the first couple of years of his presidency, most of the progressive enthusiasm his campaign drummed up ended up being directed at defending his centrism and making excuses for his foot-dragging. I'm real worried about another betrayal like that - if the left elects someone they think is a leftist but turns out to be another lovely centrist, I think that's honestly worse than electing a clear centrist that the left can spend the next two years hating unconditionally.
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Jan 24, 2017 06:59
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so there's talk of something called the 'justice democrats' who want to fight primaries to take over the democratic party, what do you think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOTsK_WGNAc https://justicedemocrats.com/?utm_expid=138498668-0.DbzB_JSuQ6u6dZl0XxJRfw.0&utm_referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fjusticedemocrats.com%2F
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Jan 24, 2017 07:04
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Condiv posted:electing perez dnc chairman would be like bring spoon to a knife fight 
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Jan 24, 2017 07:45
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