The Democratic National Chairperson election 2017

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Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

Harrow posted:

Frankly, I think any plan that relies on having a huge, immediate revolution and/or relies on handing over even more power to the Republicans is foolish and childish.

Look at what the Tea Party did in 2010. They primaried "RINOs" where it counted and went on to win general elections and therefore actually affect national politics for quite a while after that. Sure, explicit "Tea Party" candidates stopped winning eventually, but they massively shifted the Republican Party in a lasting way. Like it or not, that's the strategy we need--we need more progressivism in the Democrats, but we also need to actually win things at the same time.

centrists can't win things. that's why the party is in the state it's in. and as long as they're in control we will still fail to win. best thing to do is to purge centrists asap so we can actually start fighting back politically. cause centrists have absolutely no answers for what's going on right now and they don't want any.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 22:09

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 14:14

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

JeffersonClay posted:

Didn't you promise to gently caress off and organize the DSA or some other club for likeminded idiots? Drop the pretense. You're trying to convince democrats to stop voting for democrats. Spare us your fairy tales and get out

i'm going to vote to primary dems from the left and vote for leftist dems (good dems) and let the centrists die out.

still joining the DSA though.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 22:10

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

This is where I remind you that Zephyr Teachout not only lost her race but under performed HRC, and a whole bunch of leftists couldn't even win their primaries.

still not supporting centrists

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 22:11

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

Harrow posted:

Okay, but you need to separate outrage and moral superiority from what actually works. Again, the Tea Party makes a good road map for this: they primaried Republicans they saw as too weak to do what they wanted and did so in states and districts where they could win. Then they did win. In so doing, they made themselves a force that the Republican establishment couldn't ignore and changed the landscape of the Republican Party to this day.

In short: they didn't "purge" the RINOs, but they certainly scared the poo poo out of them, removed key ones, and took the gently caress over. Because the other part of the Tea Party wasn't just to burn down the Republican Party and make something new, but to actually change national policy to suit their agendas, which involves winning. They didn't nuke the party and hand power over to the Democrats: they created momentum and used it to change their own party and win.

You're focusing far, far too much on some sort of magical "purity" across the entire party and not only is that not going to ever happen, but it also isn't going to be productive. It's purely destructive. Changing a political party can happen quickly (again, see the Tea Party), but I guarantee you that going full scorched earth is not the way for progressives to actually win and make a difference.

i'm glad it will destroy the centrist dems. if it takes putting a knife to the throat of the dem party for the centrists to give an inch then that's what we should do imo. and centrists have shown that they will not give an inch. not even after the massive losses they've seen these past 8 years, and not even after they lost to a bumbling fascist.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 22:22

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Like you can't even promulgate what you "want" in a policy goal other than some rehashed ideas from the Bernie campaign that are mostly part of mainstream dem policy goals now.

i want harsher sentences for criminal cops and i want to look into increasing the independence of internal affairs departments so that criminal cops can start to be brought to justice.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 22:27

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Grats! That's largely in the Dem policy goal agenda!

they don't give a poo poo

they supported the drat cops hosing down nodapl protestors in freezing temps

they were afraid to associate with blm during the ge

rahm emmanuel loving got in the way of a criminal cop reaching justice

centrists are useless, even on things they should support

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 22:32

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Enjoy the DSA, I am done trying to talk to you in earnest.

i will. i will also enjoy centrists losing their seats either through primary or the general

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 22:35

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

Neurolimal posted:

It would be nice to see a commitment to protecting and expanding social security, a denouncement of austerity and 'fiscal cliff' rhetoric, and greater discipline among party congress cockroaches so we stop hearing 'oh this nice bill was gonna pass, but Hickshit Dumbass dissented, and doing anything about that wouldn't be democratic".

For starters.

lol just committing to not hosing down protesters in the freezing cold was too much for centrists

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 22:37

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

Harrow posted:

I do not care if the centrist Democrats are destroyed. If they are, no skin off my back. If they capitulate instead, that's almost as good.

if they capitulate i'll vote for them. but they won't. so i won't.

quote:

I care about a) whether the progressives will actually win and b) what the country is going to look like as a result of this strategy. That's why I keep pointing to the Tea Party as an example--because they were effective at changing an American political party just like we want to--and warning against a scorched earth strategy. Letting Republicans win just because you don't like the Democrat that might have won is not effective political strategy if you want things to move to the left and not the right. Some lovely Democrats, like Manchin, are still useful as dams against a total Republican flood.

I think you're missing what I'm saying. I'm saying that progressives primarying centrists and then winning gives those progressives more power in the party, which (by extension) gives centrists less power in the party. I'm not saying this out of some loyalty to establishment Democrats or mercy for them--I'm saying that we, as a country, are still helped out by having even a weak dam against even further right-wing takeover while we steadily get more actual progressives in office.

I'll put it this way: we can either blow up the Democrats completely and let Republicans run rampant for a couple decades while a new party struggles against the remnants of the Democrats to become relevant and actually win, or we can vote against the Republicans while steadily primarying the Democrats who are holding the party back. It might take the same amount of time and get us to roughly the same place in the end, but it does so without the consequences of unchallenged Republican rule for a decade or more.

Caveats exist, of course. If there's an unpopular Democratic senator who is probably going to lose to a Republican, primary away, nothing to lose. If there's a centrist Democrat who could reasonably win but they're in a state where a progressive can also win, primary away, let's do this. I'm saying that removing even lovely Democrats who can win in situations where the person we'd be running instead definitely cannot is the equivalent of burning something in effigy: it accomplishes exactly nothing. There's no reason to inflict casualties when it won't do anything to help push a favorable outcome.

And no, "punish the centrists" isn't a good enough reason to make our actual government even worse.

nah, centrists will just change the rules to lock us out, if they don't just straight out ignore them like they have multiple times in less than a year. that's why we gotta purge them till they relinquish power.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 22:46

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

blackguy32 posted:

You are making assertions about stuff that has not happened yet in the future. You aren't even trying to take advantage of the current rules to gain power.

Seriously, there is no answer that is good enough for you other than full leftism now, it seems. And even then your strategy seems to be to stay at home and not vote rather than be engaged for fighting for leftist candidates wherever its possible for them to win.

Are you for grassroots activism, or not?

i'm perfectly fine voting for leftist dems and fighting for leftist dems. i just won't vote centrist dems in the general, if it should come to that. i want them out, cause they just got done locking us out of power again.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 22:54

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

I don't.

I think we should run on protecting workers, immigrants, people of color, lgbt from him. I think we should run on expanding and strengthening the welfare state. Not only do we want to "protect" obamacare, but we want to expand it and make it better. We want to make a universal single-payer (if we want to call it medicare for all, fine, gently caress it...).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG7w3Oey3xs

not happening under centrists

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 23:03

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

Yeah sure, if single payer wins, great; but even vocally supporting a public option is a) something progressives have explicitly called for, b) is clearly to the left of Hillary's campaign, and c) is Good so I'm not gonna really cheer on casting someone out of the party or whatever because they don't call for single payer

if dems offered a drat public option i might vote for them. then again, the last time a centrist offered a public option he dropped it as soon as he was in office.

edit: the best hillary offered was to support it at the state level. which does jack poo poo in all us states the dems have ceded to republicans

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 23:15

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

Confounding Factor posted:

I think its clear Perez was picked because idpol and with all the insane deportation poo poo, why not have a latino fighting on behalf of them?

I consider myself to be someone on the radleft but I think there's too much of an overreaction regarding the optics. Sure I am concerned that there might still be a lack of transparency which opens them up to more interference from the likes of Russian-tied WikiLeaks, but there's nothing in Perez' strategy on rebuilding the Democratic Party I take issue with. I am optimistic Ellison will be pretty involved, even if "deputy chair" looks symbolic.

I like the DSA and other progressive parties but they are pretty much irrelevant in America. It'll still be between Democrats and Republicans 2 and 4 years from now. Regardless of who you are affiliated with, we'll still have to vote for Democrats. There's no viable alternative.

nah, just leftists. centrists can die off

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 23:19

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

JeffersonClay posted:

Running on putting the coal companies out of business didn't work so I do t know how you think the same thing would work with fracking companies. If our problem was not making credible promises for job growth in the rust belt, "gently caress fracking" doesn't move us in the right direction.

yeah, all those petrochem company employees who vote democrat. we wouldn't wanna lose all 3 of those

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 23:22

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Yeah, how's that working.

well considering centrist dems didn't bother with it, not well. again, why they need to be purged. they'd probably vote with republicans against raising taxes on corps

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 23:25

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

The republican response to that, is "why do you want to kill jobs? those taxes will kill jobs. why do you hate jobs? don't you see, those are the job creators." and people eat that poo poo right up.

and cause you weasels quiver at every utterance of the republicans, we now have a fascist in power. you are literally too spineless to support policies the country needs right loving now, and then you're curious why people want to purge the centrists.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 23:32

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Could you be dumber.

you guys are always complaining about "oh no, the republicans will sink us with this!" whenever any leftist idea comes up. then you block it. that's why centrists can't be worked with, because they reject leftist ideology as impossible. gotta purge all the centrists

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 23:36

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

All aboard taxing the rich here. Just want you to tell me what your plan here is beyond lifting a disingenuous Trump stump speech.

you really honestly want to know? in my ideal world, massive taxes on anyone making more than 700k a year. like 95% income tax above that. i also want to boost the hell out of the capital gains tax and i want a tiny tax on trades to gently caress over HFT. but i'd be happy with the taxes needed for a public option and getting universities affordable again. also money for infrastructure redevelopment jobs cause they're falling apart and initiatives to stop police from being able to kill black people on a whim.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 23:41

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Thank you and though I think many of those things are in the "puppy and rainbow" catagory, it helps.

that's why i get pissed at centrists. just cause you think it's unfeasible atm you never push for these kinds of things. meaning they never have a chance of happening. centrists have even voted against leftist policy that could've passed, like that drug reimportation bill. and it's why i've started viewing centrists as obstacles instead of allies

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 23:51

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Drug re-importation isn't a "lefitst" thing per-sey though.

it was done to reduce the cost of medicine and help the poor. there are better options, like price controls, but with what we had we could pass that.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 23:55

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

My Imaginary GF posted:

The hope ain't healthcare. What emotion does healthcare provoke in people? Anger, hate, division. A reminder that they are not in control over their future, that environmental and other external factors have a greater influence than their intrinsic will. When you try to sell healthcare, you're trying to sell taking away individual freedom and autonomy. It just don't loving win.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2017 23:56

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

I too want idiots running the country.

well duh, you support perez and the hillary wing running the party

# ¿ Mar 1, 2017 00:12

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

there's only one minority group dems really care about

the 1%

# ¿ Mar 1, 2017 01:15

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 14:14

Condiv: May 7, 2008; Sorry to undo the effort of paying a domestic abuser $10 to own this poster, but I am going to lose my dang mind if I keep seeing multiple posters who appear to be Baloogan.

With love,
a mod

it's sad the dem establishment still believes themselves to be good leaders

the dem party is on life-support thanks to their astoundingly idiotic leadership, and yet they will not even try a new direction. not one bit. gotta keep sucking up to big banks, and having lobbyists squirming through the party, and picking ineffective leaders who get nothing worthwhile done.

how much more power do you suppose the dems bleed in 2018? they'll probably lose even more states so the repubs can call a constitutional convention

# ¿ Mar 1, 2017 18:02

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