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It's Ellison versus anyone but Ellison. Ellison's main liabilities are that he's progressive, Muslim and not pro-Israel (which is the only reason the ADL smear has gotten any traction al all), and tied heavily to Sanders and Warren. Pushing Perez, who is progressive, not Muslim, and nominally friendly with Clinton but very closely tied to Obama, into the race seems like an obvious triangulation on the part of the president to hedge against another centrist hack like DWS.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:28
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Gringostar posted:Only, unlike DWS Perez isn't horrible and IIRC is actually loved by unions so much they had Obama nominate Lynch to replace Holder instead of Perez. Perez is a hedge against a DWS-style hack. His liabilities - Clinton endorsement, TPP support - make him ideal for anyone-but-Ellison Democrats to rally around, and leave less room for a centrist, corporatist, or Clintonlander to try and brand themself the Ellison Alternative.
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Jan 4, 2017 21:43
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blackguy32 posted:This just seems like yet another primary proxy battle that will be fought over the thinnest of differences. Have any of them put out any plans on moving the party forward? Their biggest change from existing party policy is that they both want to devolve funding from the national party to local parties. That said, if you can find a difference between their stated plans for the party, I'd like to hear it!
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Jan 4, 2017 22:05
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I like Ellison better than Perez because he's a more effective and experienced organizer, but I don't see how Perez is meaningfully tainted by association with Obama or Clinton. He hasn't been part of Clinton's poorly-run campaigns, he favors the same sort of decentralized volunteer-led politics that Ellison (and Sanders) do, and he's not indebted to Clinton for his political career to date. I understand that he's not The Sanders Faction Candidate, and I don't like the DNC defeating Ellison just to symbolically punch left. Other than that he's not Ellison, what's wrong with Perez? Brainiac Five posted:TPP isn't poo poo and latching onto it as a nefarious gambit by Haim Saban and George Soros to drain the blood of the poor is one of the many reasons why Bernie diehards can't be trusted with power. what the hell is this garbage
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Jan 5, 2017 03:12
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Obama, Holder, and Clinton are not running for DNC chair.
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Jan 5, 2017 03:29
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Fulchrum posted:I feel like a goddamn O'Malley supporter here, but can we talk Buckley for a second? Just so people will stop trying to rip each other's throats out. Buckley is a blue dog who owned this car.  Condiv posted:the obama admin's pick is though. i don't want his wing of the party in control anymore Ellison is endorsed by Schumer and many other DNC "establishment" figures I don't especially like. There is no path to DNC chair that doesn't at least require the assent of these people. I still want to know what quality Perez has that makes him and his policies undesirable. What are you worried he's do as DNC chair? What connection does he have to Obama and why does that connection make him undesirable? Is it just that he's not the Sanders-endorsed guy? Help me out here. I favor Ellison but I just don't see the problem with Perez. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Jan 5, 2017 |
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Jan 5, 2017 03:42
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Ellison isn't running for a popular election. Being a gun control hardliner isn't a liability in this case. The fact that you're trying to treat opposing Heller as a bad thing probably means you're just concern trolling though
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Jan 5, 2017 07:56
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:I'd follow Bernie off a cliff but I kind of wish Dean hadn't dropped out. He can get people elected, which is what the job entails. Dean's plan was to get blue dogs elected, and he did, and it's part of how the Democrats ended up in the mess they're in now. It's part of why DNC leadership agenda doesn't neatly map into political record. Dean the politician was progressive, Dean the DNC head envisioned a big-tent Democratic Party that managed to somehow include everyone from progressives like himself to southern conservatives. I'm honestly not sure how Ellison or Perez are going to decentralize Democratic control while also effectively promoting a consistent progressive agenda! (The need to do so is the subtext of all of those pseudocontroversial "we need people devoted to equality but also the economy" Sanders speeches, incidentally.) Dean didn't do a very good job of it, and arguably didn't even consider it a priority. Also, Dean and Sanders don't get along, and Dean has been working as a lobbyist in the interim.
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Jan 5, 2017 09:10
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DeusExMachinima posted:I really, really think that putting him at the wheel would open up the Dems as a whole to being defined by a soundbite that will be played over and over. You mean, moreso than the fact that Ellison is a black Muslim? Anyway, nobody outside of the party knows or cares about the particular political positions of the DNC head. "Who the gently caress is Tim Kaine?"
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Jan 5, 2017 22:45
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Guns are not one of the major issues in the DNC chair election.
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Jan 6, 2017 02:09
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Gun control is not one of the major issues facing the DNC chair election.
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Jan 6, 2017 02:41
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Main Paineframe posted:should they focus on rebuilding their collapsing support among unions and the Rust Belt with Perez? Ellison is endorsed by the AFL-CIO and is from Minnesota.
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Jan 6, 2017 04:19
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:Oh, I forgot there was a DNC chair thread. Greene has a solid history of of vote-registration and feminist advocacy. She's closely associated with Clinton; she worked on the campaigns of both Clintons (WJC in 96, HRC in 2008) and other Clinton allies like Mattox.
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Jan 18, 2017 02:59
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:When is this drat thing decided? Feb. 26th.
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Jan 24, 2017 02:22
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Main Paineframe posted:On the other hand, Obama was generally perceived to be to the left of Hillary and a relative outsider to the Dem establishment (at compared to Hillary), and he didn't end up being a big triumph for leftists or anti-establishment, not even in messaging. In fact, I'd say the net effect was pretty bad, because people who had thought he would be more of a leftist were generally slow to change their opinions, so for the first couple of years of his presidency, most of the progressive enthusiasm his campaign drummed up ended up being directed at defending his centrism and making excuses for his foot-dragging. I'm real worried about another betrayal like that - if the left elects someone they think is a leftist but turns out to be another lovely centrist, I think that's honestly worse than electing a clear centrist that the left can spend the next two years hating unconditionally. This is fear of winning. Sometimes you will win and it won't work out as well as you hoped. That isn't a reason to stop trying, or worse yet to actively play to lose.
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Jan 24, 2017 10:49
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Biden endorsed Perez, and various outlets are citing a 66-vote lead in favor of Perez at the moment.
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Feb 2, 2017 22:39
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Jill Stein is not running for DNC chair, c'mon now. GreyjoyBastard posted:More or less this. Between this and the Bernie faction thing, I support Ellison but not as much as if he weren't a sitting Congressman. Ellison has pledged to step down from his House seat if elected. Fulchrum posted:Really? I'm not seeing much evidence for this lead given the huge disparity of endorsements between the two. It's talking about vocally committed votes for one candidate or the other.
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Feb 3, 2017 03:03
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The Little Kielbasa posted:I think putting the party in the hands of Tom Perez, a man who dedicated the last two years to ensuring that the only option who could actually lose a 1-on-1 race to Donald Trump became the party's presidential nominee, is the most Democrat thing to do. this is bullshit. perez hadn't even met clinton before becoming labor secretary. he was a big clinton supporter during the election, but their history together is fairly limited before that.
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Feb 3, 2017 23:11
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GreyjoyBastard posted:Better than halfassing both, but he's been good there. We'd lose him in the House in favor of some newbie. Which isn't terrible, it's just a little tick in the "cons" column. Most likely someone from the DFL. Ellison isn't likely to be a House lifer in any case, whether or not he becomes DNC chair.
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Feb 4, 2017 01:58
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The DNC chair does not determine the fate of TPP, or federal foreign policy in general.
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Feb 4, 2017 02:26
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The DNC chair is going to have to square the circle of delegating money and power to the regional parties without electing a bunch of blue dogs that end up stymying Democratic policy initiatives. The latter is what happened to Howard Dean's 50 state plan the first time around. Whoever wins, they're going to either have to choose how and how much to defend (for example) Joe Manchin and Claire McCaskill, and decide how to respond if one of the vulnerable Democrats gets primaries from the left. Policy matters, but specific policies generally don't. BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Well actually, Except that both Ellison and Perez are running on decentralizing the party. Neither of them is looking to dictate the party platform.
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Feb 4, 2017 03:17
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Kilroy posted:That one's pretty easy, right? Run a fair primary. It's not about the primary, it's about allocating resources. If (eg) Manchin beats his hypothetical primary challenger by turning to the center-right even more, how much is it worth sinking money into West Virginia to make sure he retains his Senate seat? The real risk of a 50 state strategy is another Lieberman. Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 03:45 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 03:36
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Doing that when he's the WV Democrats' pick for their Senate candidate is the opposite of respecting the primaries and devolving power to the local parties, though.
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Feb 4, 2017 04:02
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Manchin won't get a primary challenge that would remotely be able to beat him, lol Someone like McCaskill or Sherrod Brown is more likely to face that kind of challenge than a Manchin or Jon Tester, sure.
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Feb 4, 2017 04:15
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Main Paineframe posted:There's more than two candidates - right now there's six or seven (I think one got booted for being Islamophobic?) None of the others matter even slightly. The race is definitely down to either Perez or Ellison at this point.
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Feb 4, 2017 04:19
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This isn't the thread to relitigate the primary. Condiv posted:having someone who loves to spread fake news is probably also a bad idea Perez wasn't talking about the (false) claim that Sanders supporters threw chairs, but rather an incident from the Republican primaries. The tweet (now deleted) came after a debate with Ellison where he gave more context: quote:The candidates repeatedly acknowledged the lack of fireworks, noting that they’ve all pledged to keep the campaign attack-free.
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Feb 4, 2017 13:32
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Condiv, maybe you should shut up about fake news when you're spreading misleading garbage from /r/sandersforpresident just because it happens to fit your preconceived notions, eh? Especially when posting that means you couldn't be bothered to have actually watched the Huffpo debate! Cease to Hope fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Feb 4, 2017 |
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Feb 4, 2017 14:27
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Condiv posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_cDNaNWnkU Ellison has also condemned BDS.
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Feb 4, 2017 15:15
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Condiv posted:and he's still closer to being right on israel than perez and will almost certainly take a harder line stance against israel's atrocities than perez who is too scared to deal with israel to even entertain a question relating to said atrocities Cease to Hope posted:The DNC chair does not determine the fate of TPP, or federal foreign policy in general. House members who are committee heads have more power to affect policy on Israel than the DNC head, so be careful what you're wishing for here.
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Feb 4, 2017 15:35
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Ardennes posted:Btw, what is the left-wing on the Democratic party suppose to do if Perez is forced though? Just keep taking the same poo poo because the only option choice is more open "alt-Fascism?" Push their people into positions of power, primary centrists and corporatists. That doesn't change no matter who is DNC chair.
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Feb 4, 2017 18:42
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Condiv posted:that'd be about the only thing I'd do if the dems forced perez into place and triangulated to alt-fascism or fascism-lite. the party was nauseating enough with an alt-republican as our nominee It's what you should be doing either way, if you want the Democrats to shift left.
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Feb 4, 2017 18:48
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Condiv posted:i dunno, if the dems adopted alt-fascism i don't know if i'd even bother with politics anymore Perez is not an "alt-fascist".
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Feb 4, 2017 19:21
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This is not the primary thread.
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Feb 4, 2017 20:44
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Both Perez and Ellison are running against DWS (and Brazile). Using up local party donation caps to launder donations to the presidential campaign left a huge impression, and both of them are running on not only ending that but reversing the flow of money to support local candidates and parties.
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Feb 4, 2017 20:51
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Tab8715 posted:How long until we know who gets the chair? depends on how the appeals process turns out, although the governor could intervene at any time
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Feb 4, 2017 21:04
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Paracaidas posted:I'd call it a circlejerk but at least that eventually reaches a climax. The Democratic National Orgone Engine
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Feb 4, 2017 21:31
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rscott posted:She is part of one wing of it, but she's a first term senator. How much support does this have with the insiders who were backing Clinton all the way back in 2012 and 13? That will tell you which way the party is going to be steered. While there are long-time Clinton insiders in the DNC race (e.g. Greene), only Perez and Ellison are likely to win, and neither of them fit that description.
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Feb 4, 2017 21:39
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This isn't the thread for relitigating the primary. We get it, Perez is Clinton and Ellison is Sanders. Point made.
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Feb 4, 2017 23:35
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Condiv posted:if the point was made then you wouldn't support perez at all. Just because you made it as well as you're going to doesn't mean it's convincing.
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Feb 5, 2017 00:04
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Mother Jones ran a profile of Ellison.
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Feb 7, 2017 16:59
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