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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Segmentation Fault posted:

I'm the embedded system running standard Windows 7

oh no, its worse

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

a true embedded system would be running linux with a bsp not updated since 2004

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

I guess they're worried about CBC attacks?

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Westie posted:

just got owned via plesk, i'd like to sha-



maybe not

the first thing I noticed is that you're using nano

time to grow a beard and wait for it to go grey I guess

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008


embedded device security: now on desktops!

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008


hope he likes gitmo

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008


hmmm, yes, that is definitely someone that knows all about cyber security

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

which protocols are they actually using? zigbee? Lora? something else?

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Lutha Mahtin posted:

do you really think it is likely that all those devices will use different chips and totally unique custom software stacks? even across different manufacturers i would (again) bet money that we are going to see the exact same poo poo we've been seeing for years now in consumer routers and iot crap: they will all use cheapo misconfigured software stacks full of old non-updated FOSS stuff written in unsafe languages like C. "oh but the protocol is pretty limited"! sure that's great but even if it's very locked down, it will mean jack if these devices have any alternate communication modes, or if other devices (like laptops or iot crap) have the ability to talk to the appliances via that protocol, because then all it will take is someone to discover a flaw in the 7-year-old version of linux that all these things are running, or a misconfiguration that exists across the software stacks of the 3 most popular smart-grid middleware providers. and on that point, i have a hard time believing that appliance makers can resist the temptation to add in features like "manage your kenmore appliances from ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD with the kenmore app!" and bolting on some kind of wi-fi interface which is of course then managed by the same main CPU/SoC that also does the locked-down smart-grid protocol stuff

zigbee devices and wifi internet of things devices are in very different worlds. a "powerful" edge device is running on something like a cortex m4, a m0 or an 8bit micro will be more typical. these edge devices will communicate with the power company's routers which hopefully has a backhaul over an air gapped network.

those routers would certainly be vulnerable, but the edge devices don't seem like they'd be a very good target.

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

flosofl posted:

Most infosec breach legislation as it impacts customers is on the state level IIRC. I imagine (hope) states are going initiate investigations in the wake of the federal investigation

unless you mean a federal investigation into why yahoo engineers weren't in the crowd at the inauguration or if any of them voted for clinton, :lol:

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Dolomite posted:

i wonder if they're all like that. we have a sign for the football stadium that doesn't check anything, it just displays what the scheduler tells it. as long as the filename is the same you could swap out the image or movie and it won't care.

they're all completely different because of course they are

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

fisting by many posted:

gaming law is complicated and varies state by state but a general rule is that it's cheating if you use any sort of device

using blackjack as an example, counting cards to gain an advantage is not illegal. you can't be arrested for it or have winnings seized, the casino can only bar you from playing. but it would be illegal if you used a counting device to keep track.

the fact that they used their cell phone to time the presses will probably be enough to convict. if you had some kind of slot machine rain man doing it by memory it'd be much harder to charge him with anything (but he'd still be banned from every casino in the country)

note that most people get charged for stuff like "counting cards" or whatever because the sneak back in or use fake ids

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Subjunctive posted:

does your passport have your place of birth on it?

all us passports do

unless you were born in international waters or on an international flight in which case it will say AT SEA or IN THE AIR

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

apseudonym posted:

I mean, yeah? That's been the legal precedent and its not like they're going to say "darn, foiled by this clever nerd" when you refuse to provide them access.

there isn't precedent - all the cases have been mooted before they got to a high enough court to get a definitive ruling on exactly how it works

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Also, from the article:

quote:

Rawls was thrown in the slammer on September 30, 2015 "until such time that he fully complies" (PDF) with a court order to unlock his hard drives. A child-porn investigation focused on Rawls when prosecutors were monitoring the online network, Freenet. They executed a search warrant in 2015 at Rawls' home. The authorities say it's a "foregone conclusion" that illicit porn is on those drives. But they cannot know for sure unless Rawls hands them the alleged evidence that is encrypted with Apple's standard FileVault software.

then do you loving job and put it in front of a jury

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

what's the mcu?

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

stm32? its easier to do it right

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Harik posted:

It's got CHACHA20-POLY1305 for AEAD but everything else is piece-parts.

I don't trust them to put the piece-parts together correctly, they weren't even generating keys properly. So there's no _just_do_it_right() call that handles RNG seeding, KEX and AEAD for them.

My original suggestion is only slightly modified:
Entropy source (HW if they have it, otherwise sample a noise source a few thousand times and properly key expand the 10-bit values)
use the STM32 crypto library for key generation
use the library for KEX (I like EC25519 but we'll profile to see which is fastest)
use CHACHA20-POLY1305 AEAD instead of naive AES ECB.

Any remaining footguns?

if you want more foolproof mbed tls has you covered

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

the only problem is...

quote:

mbed TLS (formerly known as PolarSSL) makes it trivially easy for developers to include cryptographic and SSL/TLS capabilities in their (embedded) products, facilitating this functionality with a minimal coding footprint.

sounds like a challenge. someone is going to push keys of straight 0s into production

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

"im trying to scan your device but everything is blocked, how do I fix that"

- an actual customer

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Shaggar posted:

I think the problem is more that its configured incorrectly out of the box so its disabled with the intent that you configure it properly before enabling rather than deploying misconfigured by default.

VMWare creates a bunch of bad defaults for its http server and its a huge pain in the dick to setup correctly even when using something like vsphere, but VMware is different since its infrastructure and docker is an application.

i work for a company with an iot gateway that by default blocks all incoming connections on whatever the wan interface is detected as

guess what the number one question for the gateways is

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Shaggar posted:

probably ssh logins? or if its web probably some php admin login.

yeah basically "how do I expose the default logins to the entire world?"

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Jimmy Carter posted:

HID will do cooler stuff the more money you get them

that being said if you get ahold of one of the earlier iCLASS readers it is possible to dump out the standard private key, which is used in most installations (you can specify your own key for added security but it's wayyyyyyyyyyyy more expensive. If you hold a HID key up to a reader and it doesn't beep, they've got their own. If it does decode, you can clone a card that has access)

i interviewed at hid, i asked a bunch of security questions that got answers like "uhhh, would you be interested in working on that?"

(it was mostly for the printers and I was really not interested in doing that )

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Volmarias posted:

DoJ drops Playpen case because they don't want to reveal what their "network investigative techniques" were.

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-39180204


Actual filing: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3482329-Michaud-motion-to-dismiss.html#document/p2/a341591

I assume this means nobody has published the exploit yet?

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

COACHS SPORT BAR posted:

I tried about a year ago to do android sans google, and it's a loving mess. Even if you install apps from alternate stores (f-droid, etc), drat near everything expects the play framework to be present and will just crash when the api calls fail. Android without google these days basically means android without apps, I doubt there are really that many people in that segment

there's an alarming number of embedded devices doing this though

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

infernal machines posted:

roughly, something mandating ongoing manufacturer support and minimum levels of security for internet connected devices.

e.g. your fridge/stove/babymonitor/drone/doorbell connects to the internet in any fashion then you have to provide security updates for x number of years for any discovered vulnerabilities and it has to have some basic level of authenticated access, no hard coded root passwords, etc.

have really basic pen testing certification requirement, like a CE mark

literally nothing would currently pass, the cries from industry would be amazing

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008


was their defense "don't kink shame"

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Volmarias posted:

I'm sure that the company that operates entirely from China is going to actually provide those updates after pinky swearing to do it. Are you going to mandate that the retailer does it instead?

whoever the importer is would be liable, if that's the retailer then :rip:

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

well what material losses do you have as a result of your doorbell being part of a botnet?

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Subjunctive posted:

yeah, that's a good one. I just don't think anyone is going to make a case stick against Amazon

can't sue the steel supplier if your bridge was designed wrong in the first place

well, you can but you'd lose

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

moot point anyways because a Trump admin won't regulate any of this

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

Lutha Mahtin posted:

no, his mycrimes.txt were encrypted with FDE. that's why they nabbed him at the library. they wanted a place where both (a) he had the computer on, encryption password activated, screen unlocked, and (b) where they could sneak up behind him, cause a distraction, and snag the machine from him while it was in the unlocked state

my favorite random little detail in this story is that he didn't bring his laptop charger with him so the FBI agents had to scramble to find an ac adapter compatible with that type of laptop

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008


quote:

Once the bots find a vulnerable target, they run a series of highly debilitating commands that wipe all the files stored on the device, corrupt the device's storage, and sever its Internet connection. Given the cost and time required to repair the damage, the device is effectively destroyed, or bricked, from the perspective of the typical consumer.

obviously the solution is for all iot devices to come with instructions for getting into uboot

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

redleader posted:

haha no loving way

out of band, out of mind

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

pseudorandom name posted:

it's a standard feature on all cellular wifi boxes for some reason. presumably because it adds nothing to the cost and everybody else is doing it.

I wouldn't be surprised if there were regulatory issues or the cell providers insist on it

all cellular radios support sms

out of band management over SMS is absolutely not a requirement for gateways. it's a commonly requested feature for gateways/bridges/etc though

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

I assumed that they were breaking some sort of oob feature but you're right it's probably even worse

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

theflyingexecutive posted:

just for fun question: can a stingray remotely update your iPhone radio firmware, kick you off wifi, and tunnel all your info through the fake cell tower?

I asked Siri a (not-innocuous) question and moments later:
-all my authentications (apple and email) started failing
-I couldn't connect to my wifi (working for everyone else in the room)
-browser speed was throttled to almost nothing
-going to cell settings spat out a message that my cell radio settings had been updated, apropos of nothing
-resetting my radio did nothing, I had to do a full restore

dunno why wifi would break because that's a separate radio. it does sound like the carrier settings are hosed so it may be as simple as a bad flash. if it happens again it's almost certainly the cell radio dying

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

theflyingexecutive posted:

well it happened immediately after I asked a LEO eyebrow-raising question, kicked me off wifi, and seemed to act like it couldn't establish secure connections which all screamed mitm to me. it's been 100% after the restore, but dying radio is certainly an option

or your radio was sending invalid credentials to the carrier and the data connection was trying to redirect you to a registration page

cycling airplane mode will force your cell radio to try and register itself again with the cell network so try that if it happens again

hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

theflyingexecutive posted:

I def tried that and also resetting my cell network. authentications over https worked (but slowly) and I could access apple pw reset just fine

which carrier? sounds like you only had gprs service

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hobbesmaster
Jan 28, 2008

it wouldn't be gprs on Verizon; that'd be cdma 1x

random tangent: Verizon wants all cdma stuff off their network fast, with a complete shutdown of their cdma networks in the next couple of years

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