Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
DLC Inc
Jun 1, 2011

story modes can be bad but I'd like stupid conquest modes more. it'd make sense with MVC and all the stupid locations and recruitment you could do. I was sad Heroes and Heralds was poo poo-tier. Killer Instinct's Shadowlords comes kind of close but the most fun I had with any extra fighting game modes were in Soul Caliber 3, which had gimmicky arenas and this big strategy-mode thing where you took forts and fought fighters for them.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

cams
Mar 28, 2003


hm maybe the autistic nerds posting on an internet forum have differing preferences in video games than the hundreds of thousands of people they are trying to sell to

euthanize gamers

Alfalfa The Roach
Oct 13, 2012

You need to be a badass first.

MinibarMatchman posted:

story modes can be bad but I'd like stupid conquest modes more. it'd make sense with MVC and all the stupid locations and recruitment you could do. I was sad Heroes and Heralds was poo poo-tier. Killer Instinct's Shadowlords comes kind of close but the most fun I had with any extra fighting game modes were in Soul Caliber 3, which had gimmicky arenas and this big strategy-mode thing where you took forts and fought fighters for them.

Weapon Master Mode in SoulCaliber II was the poo poo back in the day

Zand
Jul 9, 2003

~ i'll take you for a ride ~ ride on a meteorite ~

cams posted:

hm maybe the autistic nerds posting on an internet forum have differing preferences in video games than the hundreds of thousands of people they are trying to sell to

euthanize gamers

games like this can't survive without the core audience. capcom isn't appealing to those "hundreds and thousands" or the "autistic nerds" and that's kind of their issue. like I said before, other devs aren't having this big a problem

bebaloorpabopalo
Nov 23, 2005

I'm not interested in constructive criticism, believe me.
i imagine cams made that same post but with "millions" at first then looked up sf5 sales numbers and instead of coming to a stark realization that they undermine his entire argument changed it to Hundreds of Thousands.

DLC Inc
Jun 1, 2011

cams posted:

hm maybe the autistic nerds posting on an internet forum have differing preferences in video games than the hundreds of thousands of people they are trying to sell to

euthanize gamers

"autistic nerds"

:ironicat:

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

cams posted:

hm maybe the autistic nerds posting on an internet forum have differing preferences in video games than the hundreds of thousands of people they are trying to sell to

euthanize gamers

:same:

HebrewMagic
Jul 19, 2012

Police Assault In Progress

cams posted:

euthanize gamers

cams
Mar 28, 2003


bebaloorpabopalo posted:

i imagine cams made that same post but with "millions" at first then looked up sf5 sales numbers and instead of coming to a stark realization that they undermine his entire argument changed it to Hundreds of Thousands.
sfv had nothing for the casual audience how would that undermine my argument

just the same people trying to pick internet slapfights forever

game looks interesting, i feel that it has a high level of readability that i appreciate. looking forward to it.

Baku
Aug 20, 2005

by Fluffdaddy

cams posted:

euthanize gamers

games and gamers are good, including marvel 3, desp

fadam posted:



I like the handful of Marvel comics I read just fine but I can't imagine a company I'm less interested in seeing fighting game characters from than Modern Marvel lmao.

nm, the aids is terminal

Zelder
Jan 4, 2012

I'm the maniac that likes tvc more than marvel

also cams get help

Zelder
Jan 4, 2012

Ill buy this game but only if miles Morales and Peter Parker are separate characters

My dream is to field a team of spider men

OneDeadman
Oct 16, 2010

[SUPERBIA]
Boycott this game until Capcom gives the character we've always wanted but have been too afraid to ask for : The Plane from 1942

Cabbagepots
Apr 7, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 4 years!

OneDeadman posted:

Boycott this game until Capcom gives the character we've always wanted but have been too afraid to ask for : The Plane from 1942

Alternate costume: the ship from Vulgus

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Zand posted:

games like this can't survive without the core audience. capcom isn't appealing to those "hundreds and thousands" or the "autistic nerds" and that's kind of their issue. like I said before, other devs aren't having this big a problem

Here's your first problem.

You feel strongly enough about fighting games that you paid $10 to post about them on an Internet message board. You're automatically an enthusiast. You are in no way "core."

The "core audience" for a Marvel vs. Capcom game in 2017 will be fans of the MCU, of Marvel comics, or of Capcom's other franchises (and Resident Evil, at least, is having a very good year, so it makes sense that Chris is the single most prominent Capcom character in the story trailer). That will account for, at a guess, 90% of the game's overall lifetime sales: dorm room warriors who just want to pick the Hulk and smack Thor around. Any professional competitive circuit that the game develops is basically gravy. It's a bonus, it will move DLC, and if it makes it onto television, so much the better.

A consistent problem with "gamers" as an audience is that they always, always overestimate just how crucial they are to the development process. The hardcore fringe of a game's audience are certainly useful and welcome, but they don't move units by themselves. They help to produce the community that keeps a game relevant and vibrant, so they have a role, but gamers have a tendency to act like they've somehow managed to get a hand on the wheel.

Zand
Jul 9, 2003

~ i'll take you for a ride ~ ride on a meteorite ~

Wanderer posted:

Here's your first problem.

You feel strongly enough about fighting games that you paid $10 to post about them on an Internet message board. You're automatically an enthusiast. You are in no way "core."

The "core audience" for a Marvel vs. Capcom game in 2017 will be fans of the MCU, of Marvel comics, or of Capcom's other franchises (and Resident Evil, at least, is having a very good year, so it makes sense that Chris is the single most prominent Capcom character in the story trailer). That will account for, at a guess, 90% of the game's overall lifetime sales: dorm room warriors who just want to pick the Hulk and smack Thor around. Any professional competitive circuit that the game develops is basically gravy. It's a bonus, it will move DLC, and if it makes it onto television, so much the better.

A consistent problem with "gamers" as an audience is that they always, always overestimate just how crucial they are to the development process. The hardcore fringe of a game's audience are certainly useful and welcome, but they don't move units by themselves. They help to produce the community that keeps a game relevant and vibrant, so they have a role, but gamers have a tendency to act like they've somehow managed to get a hand on the wheel.
i didnt reg here to post about fg by the way im just extremely good at posting about them

games with slow drip dlc especially need a robust group of hardcore people at the center to keep interest alive. valve understands this and sells tourney tickets and has a variety of other things to tie the hardcore and more casual/spectator communities together. namco has this with its robust mode choices and other features for its fighting games. arcsys does this by having variety in single player modes and tutorials while not skimping on complexity. guilty gear and some other games even have newsfeeds on the menus that talk about current community events.

take it from the genius, david sirlin, himself:


maybe using the word "core" was a mistake since you took that and defined it for me and then said that it was wrong because of that specific word, okay thats cool. hopefully you can look beyond a single word that you defined for me and try to appreciate the context of that statement. i mean, would you consider the "core" audience of chess to be the thousands and thousands of poo poo-tier players and small children that "can" play chess or the people that give a poo poo about it? when they made rules revisions like en passants and castling which do you think the rule-makers gave a poo poo about affecting? would chess even have thousands and thousands of poo poo-tier players if there were no grandmasters?

anyway, it is absolutely important for a fighting game, or any game with competitive netplay, to be designed with hardcore players in mind. even puyo puyo tetris is balanced with good players in mind, nobody making a competitive game is trying to make one that sucks to play competitively except for couch co-op indie shovelware devs

Zand fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Apr 28, 2017

cams
Mar 28, 2003


hahahahhahaha

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Zand posted:

take it from the genius, david sirlin, himself:

HebrewMagic
Jul 19, 2012

Police Assault In Progress
Jesus I couldn't read that post my eyes rolled back in my loving skull

The REAL Goobusters
Apr 25, 2008

Zand posted:

the opinions of casuals aren't wrong, they are uninformed. they can keep having uninformed opinions, I don't care about that. the problem lies solely with capcom catering to the strawman "good game for everyone." and the opinions of competitive players are absolutely valuable but being a competitive player doesn't make you a game designer.


This is my big problem with capcom fighting games since Sf4/Mvc3. They keep trying to make this game for "everyone" except it ends up not pleasing either side. SF4 I think was the best version of this type of game I guess or at least the most successful. Marvel 3 was a noticeable step down from Marvel 2 and then SFXT happened. Now we got SF5 and its uh yeah still going I guess, didn't light the world on fire like SF4 did though.

This just looks bad, I can't get excited for it.

Zelder
Jan 4, 2012

in defense of capcom I don't think anyone could do marvel 2 again. it was largely a happy accident right?

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Zelder posted:

in defense of capcom I don't think anyone could do marvel 2 again. it was largely a happy accident right?

Wasn't MVC2 just every sprite they had thrown together in a blender? I don't think it'd be anywhere near as well-regarded as it is if not for the 2D fighter drought of the '00s.

Cabbagepots
Apr 7, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 4 years!

Zand posted:

i didnt reg here to post about fg by the way im just extremely good at posting about them

games with slow drip dlc especially need a robust group of hardcore people at the center to keep interest alive. valve understands this and sells tourney tickets and has a variety of other things to tie the hardcore and more casual/spectator communities together. namco has this with its robust mode choices and other features for its fighting games. arcsys does this by having variety in single player modes and tutorials while not skimping on complexity. guilty gear and some other games even have newsfeeds on the menus that talk about current community events.

take it from the genius, david sirlin, himself:


maybe using the word "core" was a mistake since you took that and defined it for me and then said that it was wrong because of that specific word, okay thats cool. hopefully you can look beyond a single word that you defined for me and try to appreciate the context of that statement. i mean, would you consider the "core" audience of chess to be the thousands and thousands of poo poo-tier players and small children that "can" play chess or the people that give a poo poo about it? when they made rules revisions like en passants and castling which do you think the rule-makers gave a poo poo about affecting? would chess even have thousands and thousands of poo poo-tier players if there were no grandmasters?

anyway, it is absolutely important for a fighting game, or any game with competitive netplay, to be designed with hardcore players in mind. even puyo puyo tetris is balanced with good players in mind, nobody making a competitive game is trying to make one that sucks to play competitively except for couch co-op indie shovelware devs

Agreed.

Zand
Jul 9, 2003

~ i'll take you for a ride ~ ride on a meteorite ~

HebrewMagic posted:

Jesus I couldn't read that post my eyes rolled back in my loving skull
you should try reading it again, it and all of my posts are fantastic

Wanderer posted:

Wasn't MVC2 just every sprite they had thrown together in a blender? I don't think it'd be anywhere near as well-regarded as it is if not for the 2D fighter drought of the '00s.

people think this but they are just wrong

if you take a look at version history for the old versus games arcade releases and track balance changes across versions you'll see that they were well aware of what was broken in the old games. mvc2 was more of a choice than a lot of people give it credit for. A lot of characters were de-powered from old versions and plenty were made more powerful from old versions. There were some things that were unintentional, sure, but thats basically every fg. Access to infinites for example is incredibly limited in mvc2 compared to other vs games. There are also a lot of new sprites in mvc2 (sonson, servbot, tron, cable, amingo, marrow, jill, roll, hayato, probably someone else).

MvC2 didn't come out in a drought of fgs, it came out in 2000, before cvs2, tekken 4, soul calibur 2, and ggxx. it was right after third strike, tekken tag, sfa3, and cvs1.

Zand fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Apr 28, 2017

NecroMonster
Jan 4, 2009

it was an accident that mvc2 ended up "balanced", but the game design itself is full of lots and lots of really smart choices. It's individual character mechanics, and unforseen interactions where the game has "problems".

Snow Cone Capone
Jul 31, 2003


Zand posted:

you should try reading it again, it and all of my posts are fantastic


sorry but if cabbagepots agrees with your posting that automatically means it's poo poo

no offense, I didn't make the rules here I swear

HebrewMagic
Jul 19, 2012

Police Assault In Progress

Zand posted:

you should try reading it again, it and all of my posts are fantastic

Nah

Any fresh leaks/rumors as to who's on the roster
This is their chance to clone Chris for the Marvel side and give us playable Punisher

Brosnan
Nov 13, 2004

Pwning the incels with my waifu fg character. Get trolled :twisted:
Lipstick Apathy
Get a load of this nerd, gang! Buncha words about core communities and competitive video games and poo poo, lol what a geek


Anyway fellas, any word on if I can finally be the Punisher??

Zelder
Jan 4, 2012

I wanna play as Leon Kennedy, gently caress Chris

Overbite
Jan 24, 2004


I'm a vtuber expert
I wish captain marvel was in a good game.

Bloodly
Nov 3, 2008

Not as strong as you'd expect.

Zelder posted:

I wanna play as Leon Kennedy, gently caress Chris

I admit that he carries a similar amount of firepower. I forget how he is physically, though. Would he just be Chris+Speed?

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

Bloodly posted:

I admit that he carries a similar amount of firepower. I forget how he is physically, though. Would he just be Chris+Speed?

Leon does more dual-wielding and kick attacks, plus he can suplex dudes. They'd also be missing out if they didn't have at least one super where Leon accidentally crashes a vehicle.

fadam
Apr 23, 2008

Overbite posted:

I wish captain marvel was in a good game.

The cool Captain Marvel was in IJ1 and that game is alright.

HebrewMagic
Jul 19, 2012

Police Assault In Progress

Brosnan posted:

Get a load of this nerd, gang! Buncha words about core communities and competitive video games and poo poo, lol what a geek


Anyway fellas, any word on if I can finally be the Punisher??

this but unironically

HebrewMagic
Jul 19, 2012

Police Assault In Progress

Wanderer posted:

Leon does more dual-wielding and kick attacks, plus he can suplex dudes. They'd also be missing out if they didn't have at least one super where Leon accidentally crashes a vehicle.

I would kill for Leon now actually

Zelder
Jan 4, 2012

Leon is Chris but style and cheesy 80s action

cams
Mar 28, 2003


i did not play re7, was chris in it? wondering if there's more reason to have him in than already existing assets making it easy

Kurtofan
Feb 16, 2011

hon hon hon
Leon Kennedy pfff, Jake Muller is where it's at

HebrewMagic
Jul 19, 2012

Police Assault In Progress
I want shirtless chainsaw duelist Jack from 7

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Wanderer
Nov 5, 2006

our every move is the new tradition

cams posted:

i did not play re7, was chris in it? wondering if there's more reason to have him in than already existing assets making it easy

It's a bit of a spoiler. There's a guy in the game's ending for about thirty seconds who claims to be Chris, but he's wildly off-model and appears to be working for Umbrella. This is supposedly going to be followed up on in the free DLC, "Not A Hero," which was recently delayed. Chris is also appearing in a new CGI movie in June, Resident Evil: Vendetta.

Since Chris is wearing his RE5 outfit in MVCI, I think it's a lot more likely that he's just there as the face of the franchise. RE5 is Capcom's best-selling game of all time.

  • Locked thread