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swickles posted:Maybe ODB just needs to meet a nice water cooler, someone he can chat with on the sidelines and help him work through things. Lol
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Jan 10, 2017 05:41
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swickles posted:Maybe ODB just needs to meet a nice water cooler, someone he can chat with on the sidelines and help him work through things. Marshall chose a different ship to go down with
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Jan 10, 2017 08:24
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CyberPingu posted:Marshall chose a different ship to go down with Pretty sure Marshall went down on a plane, not a ship.
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Jan 10, 2017 08:27
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big money big clit posted:Pretty sure Marshall went down on a plane, not a ship. I thought that was the Vikings?
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Jan 10, 2017 08:28
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Chichevache posted:A A Ron isn't the only one holding for 9 seconds. hahahaha BobbyK posted:How do you watch football for the past few months and think GB has a porous Oline? Everything is about how he holds the ball for 9 seconds every pass play. Seriously, though, Aaron is one of the more elusive/mobile QB's in the game and he can still be effective behind a lovely o-line. See: Wilson, Russell
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Jan 10, 2017 16:27
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Chilichimp posted:Seriously, though, Aaron is one of the more elusive/mobile QB's in the game and he can still be effective behind a lovely o-line. See: Wilson, Russell I assure you, after watching every Packers game this season, some multiple times, the Packers offensive line isn't even close to average, let alone "bad", "porous", or "lovely". I'm not a homer that refuses to admit our shortcomings, but this offensive line is special.
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Jan 10, 2017 17:00
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Rodgers extends plays a lot, but he's been doing it behind the line for the most part, just moving around in the pocket to keep linemen between himself and the rushers. It's nothing like Wilson getting immediate pressure up the middle from two different rushers and having to pirouette three times and run backwards twenty yards before heaving up a thirty yard completion.
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Jan 10, 2017 17:18
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PFF has ranked GB's o-line in the top 10 consistently. They look a lot better than other offensive lines out there.
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Jan 10, 2017 17:38
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seiferguy posted:PFF has ranked GB's o-line in the top 10 consistently. lol
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Jan 10, 2017 17:44
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I get PFF and any "advanced" metrics site is dubious, but quantifying offensive line play is tough. And I'm gonna cast doubt on someone saying GB's line is bad considering the Seahawks and Vikings existed this year.
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Jan 10, 2017 17:48
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*watches Rodgers get 10 seconds to throw like 20 times in a game against a good D* lol Packers line bad
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Jan 10, 2017 17:53
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I get a LOL for PFF because they're trash. Rodgers is getting sacked at the 2nd lowest rate of his entire career (only his 2014 MVP season was better), so his line is hardly screwing him over in pass protection. And his time in the pocket against the Giants was ridiculous of course.
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Jan 10, 2017 17:54
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sean10mm posted:I get a LOL for PFF because they're trash. this guy gets it
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Jan 10, 2017 17:55
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I honestly don't know what the "best" site is for grading o-line play (if such a site exists) so if there's a good one, I'm all ears. I'm assuming it costs money. In the meantime, I'm just gonna post some Bradley Sowell play so everyone understands the type of offensive line play I'm used to: https://twitter.com/deionmarco/status/776072116135399424
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Jan 10, 2017 17:59
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Bulaga, TJ Lang, and DB69 are all very above average players. Lane Taylor has gotten way better and is playing some of the best football of his short career (as a start, I mean) thus far.
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Jan 10, 2017 18:02
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seiferguy posted:I honestly don't know what the "best" site is for grading o-line play (if such a site exists) so if there's a good one, I'm all ears. I'm assuming it costs money. lol 78 doesn't even turn fast as he watches the guy run by
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Jan 10, 2017 18:05
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Intruder posted:*watches Rodgers get 10 seconds to throw like 20 times in a game against a good D* Watching that game, I get the sense that Rodgers has some condition that makes him physically ill if he stays inside a nicely protected pocket.
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Jan 10, 2017 18:06
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BobbyK posted:lol 78 doesn't even turn fast as he watches the guy run by If you rearrange the letters to "Bradley Sowell" it inevitably forms the words "healthy scratch", don't know why that is but I can't argue with science.
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Jan 10, 2017 19:05
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seiferguy posted:I honestly don't know what the "best" site is for grading o-line play (if such a site exists) so if there's a good one, I'm all ears. I'm assuming it costs money. El es basura.
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Jan 10, 2017 19:10
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Green Bay has someone at least league average along their entire line. That makes their line better than 20 teams in the league. O-line play has been terrible this year, in general.
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Jan 10, 2017 20:10
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MrLogan posted:Green Bay has someone at least league average along their entire line. That makes their line better than 20 teams in the league. O-line play has been terrible this year, in general. Maybe defenses have just gotten better at creating pressure.
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Jan 10, 2017 20:12
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There are some really great offensive lines this year, though. Dallas, Oakland, Tennessee, Washington, New Orleans all had great lines this year. I'll admit I was wrong about Green Bay's line this year. They've clearly been good in pass protection.
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Jan 10, 2017 20:47
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:Maybe defenses have just gotten better at creating pressure. Offensive line play has been down overall for the past few years. It all started with the latest CBA. GMs are more likely to throw in rookies to play o-line, meaning they have to learn schemes and a new style of blocking. In the prior CBA when rookies were getting huge deals, GMs were more likely to get a vet who was in the twilight of his career, who knew what to do but was probably just a bit slower at it than a 22-year old. Those vets are getting passed over for a cheaper rookie. That, and the new CBA limited the amount of full-contact practice in a year (insert joke about Pete Carroll bypassing this), meaning that most teams are testing what they practiced on gameday. Granted, there are teams that invest and develop lines, Dallas being the prime example here.
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Jan 10, 2017 20:57
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The football meta is constantly shifting and as other areas improve, other areas will suffer.
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Jan 10, 2017 21:00
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You think poor protection is your arguments ally I was born into turnstile linemen. I've seen the horrors of Dallas Thomas
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Jan 10, 2017 21:01
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Oh hey are we talking bad offensive lines because I don't know if you dudes know about this fella but his name is Ereck Flowers and he was drafted 9 overall and his idea of pass protection is to prevent the pass from happening at all so he doesn't have to protect it anymore
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Jan 10, 2017 21:05
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lovely offensive linemen chat: gently caress Ty Sambrailo
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Jan 10, 2017 21:10
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Marcus Cannon is the most improved offensive lineman this year, and possibly in the history of football, and maybe just the most improved thing in general in the history of everything. Dante Scarnecchia is just the best. 
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Jan 10, 2017 21:16
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Febreeze posted:Oh hey are we talking bad offensive lines because I don't know if you dudes know about this fella but his name is Ereck Flowers and he was drafted 9 overall and his idea of pass protection is to prevent the pass from happening at all so he doesn't have to protect it anymore They asked him if he wanted to protect the QB, and he passed.
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Jan 10, 2017 21:46
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:Watching that game, I get the sense that Rodgers has some condition that makes him physically ill if he stays inside a nicely protected pocket. Typical homosexuality IMO.
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Jan 10, 2017 22:05
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Amy Pole Her posted:You think poor protection is your arguments ally ITT We act like offensive line play is really bad this year and David Carr's offensive line never existed
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Jan 10, 2017 22:12
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The state of the Vikings oline really brings me down on the team's ceiling. It's such a disaster and it's going to take a couple of years to fix even if they make great signings and draft picks, which they've failed at recently outside of Boone. Injuries were a factor but the the guys they lost weren't decent.
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Jan 10, 2017 22:27
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TheChirurgeon posted:ITT We act like offensive line play is really bad this year and David Carr's offensive line never existed And they still got trounced at the line by the Texans.
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Jan 10, 2017 22:30
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TheChirurgeon posted:ITT We act like offensive line play is really bad this year and David Carr's offensive line never existed This year? Did you not post in tff the past 3 years?
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Jan 10, 2017 22:32
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PrinceRandom posted:And they still got trounced at the line by the Texans. I don't know whether to laugh or sigh at this. I wrote "David" and not "Derek," btw Amy Pole Her posted:This year? Did you not post in tff the past 3 years? Ha, true. I went back and pulled the stats on it, for anyone interested--Sack rates were actually *down* across the league this year. The worst offensive line play we've seen (or best dline play, depending on how you want to look at it) was back in 2013, when sack rates were a full percentage point higher. Year - Sk Rate 2016 - 6.11% 2015 - 6.48% 2014 - 6.78% 2013 - 7.14% 2012 - 6.57% 2011 - 6.82% 2010 - 6.54% I also pulled team-by-team stats, but those charts look like a mess and would take too long to clean up. Here's the broad strokes: - Worst sack rate since 2010: Jacksonville, 2014 (12.7%)!! <-- JAX gave up a sack on 1 out of every 8 pass attempts - Runner-up: Chicago, 2010 (12%) - Best sack rate since 2010: Indianapolis, 2010 (2.4%) - Runner-up: Denver, 2014 (2.8%) The "Peyton Manning Effect," or "Proof that at least half of a team's sacks are the fault of the QB" - Every full season Manning played in the sample, his team had the lowest sack rate in the league. Indy 2010 (2.4%), DEN 2012 (3.6%), DEN 2013 (3.0%), DEN 2014 (2.8%). Denver's sack rate jumped back up to be around the league average in 2015 (6.4%). The "Most consistently high sack rate" award goes to SF, who only 'led' the league in sack rate once (2015, 10.1%), but had the highest 6-year avg The "Least consistent sack rate/Most improved" award goes to Chicago, who went from a league-high 12% in 2010 to a more-reasonable 5% this year. Pittsburgh was close behind, with a similar decline from 9% in 2010 to 3.5% in 2016. This year's best sack rate was held by Oakland (3%), followed by Pittsburgh. The worst was Cleveland (11.6%), by a wide margin, followed by Buffalo/SF (9.7%/9.6%).
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Jan 10, 2017 22:48
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12% jesus christ bears
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Jan 10, 2017 23:31
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does any site track time in pocket before pass/sack/scramble? that'd be interesting to average out w/ lineup data.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:35
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JPrime posted:does any site track time in pocket before pass/sack/scramble? that'd be interesting to average out w/ lineup data. Football outsiders does an annual analysis on sack times; e.g. sacks that occur less than 3 seconds after the snap versus more than 3 seconds, so as to separate line sacks from QB/coverage sacks. PFF tracks time to throw and the accuracy for QBs based on time from snap to pass. I haven't seen anything tracking how long a QB spends in the pocket before a pass/sack/scramble, though. Would be interesting to look at.
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Jan 11, 2017 02:50
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Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:12% jesus christ bears Don't you remember the Giants game where Cutler died for our sins?
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Jan 11, 2017 02:56
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The Packers' o-line is really good at pass blocking. Even against a team with a very good pass rush like the Giants, Rodgers had a lot of plays where he was just kind of dancing & shifting in the pocket while his line was just giving him all day to find a receiver coming open. That one TD pass he threw to Randall Cobb that put 'em up 31-13 is one where he had practically forever to just let somebody come open. He gets sacked a lot but mobile QBs who hold onto the ball and try and make a big play happen usually have higher sack rates in general. You want a bad offensive line, go watch some Giants, Vikings or Chargers games - now those are teams with trash heap o-lines. Jiminy Christmas! Shoes! posted:12% jesus christ bears mikemartz.txt
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