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I like how they based so many games on Necromunda's ruleset, it shows how good it actually was possibly in spite of GW.
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Jan 18, 2017 19:43
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berzerkmonkey posted:I just finished clipping all of my BB Skaven from the sprue, and didn't have a problem with a single tail breaking. I saw some complaints regarding the tails snapping when people were taking the models off the sprue, but apparently, they were using butter knives to do the job. Using my clippers, I was able to pop them right of with no problem. You could just own it and call your team the Bobtail Brawlers.
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Jan 18, 2017 20:09
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Dreadwroth posted:I like how they based so many games on Necromunda's ruleset, it shows how good it actually was possibly in spite of GW. 2nd Edition 40k stripped back to basics without any of the bloated nonsense that accompanied it.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:26
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Dreadwroth posted:I like how they based so many games on Necromunda's ruleset, it shows how good it actually was possibly in spite of GW. Like this chap said... Roller Coast Guard posted:2nd Edition 40k stripped back to basics without any of the bloated nonsense that accompanied it. I think the 2nd ed 40k rules working ok for skirmish size games is a happy accident for GW, because they were loving terrible for 40k 
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Jan 18, 2017 23:08
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Isn't it really only 3 games? 40k, Necromunda, and Gorkamorka? I also wouldn't say that the rules are particularly good so much as they work fine on a skirmish level. They're still referencing lots of tables, comparing stats to arrive at target numbers, and melee resolution is haphazard. But since you're only using a handful of miniatures it's not such a problem. They were fine for their era, but if they were released as new today I think people would be pretty critical of them. That said, I'd still buy a rerelease of either Necromunda or Gorkamorka since I would know what I was getting myself into. I also wouldn't complain if they got someone competent to update the rules with modern design sensibilities.
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Jan 19, 2017 04:20
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Mordheim guys making Necromunda? Prepare for gang advancements so incremental they might as well not be there. Also skirmish game in built up environment? Why not infinity? Better miniatures than Mantic and the fluff is maybe somewhat less boring. As I have probably said, I have no loyalty to 40K rulesets and I'd play anything that does Marines better.
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Jan 19, 2017 08:10
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People get really invested in the campaign progression of NecroMordheim, and that's one thing that Infinity doesn't really have.
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Jan 19, 2017 08:15
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Oh yeah, totally. Like, I imagine a campaign system would work much better in a d20 stat system - especially if you start with CC/BS <10 as you are a bunch of bangers who still thing that holding a gun sideways does you good. Unfortunatelly, Infinity isn't interested in that and Campaign Paradiso campaign... Isn't that interesting. It would be possible to cut down Infinity to fit. Do away with a bajillion special rules and ammo types that wouldn't appear in banger land (and are probably unnecessary in actual infinity), maybe introduce some bot/power armor unreliability or whatever. Call it the Infinite Underhive
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Jan 19, 2017 08:25
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Oh, and I meant it as a rebuke to Deadzone. I mean, if you're playing skirmish games with campaign rules as an afterthought, why not Infinity?
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Jan 19, 2017 08:26
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Signal posted:People get really invested in the campaign progression of NecroMordheim, and that's one thing that Infinity doesn't really have. Even though it suffered from the blood bowl problem of teams being basically gutted and not worth keeping, and runaway leaders... Other games not doing campaign systems didn't make these ones good
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Jan 19, 2017 09:44
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JcDent posted:Mordheim guys making Necromunda? Prepare for gang advancements so incremental they might as well not be there. This is what has me worried. Mordhiem was a buggy boring piece of crap when it came out. So much so that it was only the second steam game I had refunded. I have no faith in that team making a fun game that works. I highly doubt there was even AI in the game.
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Jan 19, 2017 11:45
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JcDent posted:Oh yeah, totally. Like, I imagine a campaign system would work much better in a d20 stat system - especially if you start with CC/BS <10 as you are a bunch of bangers who still thing that holding a gun sideways does you good.
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Jan 19, 2017 11:46
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I wouldn't know, I never heard anything about it.
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Jan 19, 2017 12:14
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JcDent posted:Mordheim guys making Necromunda? Prepare for gang advancements so incremental they might as well not be there. I've not played the recent mordheim game, but is this more because the mordheim roster differs to the necromunda one in that you have henchmen who don't skill up as quickly as the 'heroes' anyway? Necromunda in comparison to Mordheim was basically 'everyone is a hero and gets skill points' On that note: http://cockeddice.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/34-year-old-man-realises-nothing-will.html
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Jan 19, 2017 14:39
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Raged posted:This is what has me worried. Mordhiem was a buggy boring piece of crap when it came out. So much so that it was only the second steam game I had refunded. I have no faith in that team making a fun game that works. I got it for Christmas and have been playing the hell out of it. Not sure what it was like at launch but so far it's a great time.
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Jan 19, 2017 16:27
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Duncan has tips on a Orc Pitch themed base for BB. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN0fhFcIyBo EDIT: Never mind - the Chaos player is a conversion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAG7G910q6Y berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jan 19, 2017 |
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Jan 19, 2017 20:02
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Mordheim suffers (or at least did, when I played it) from three big flaws: First, the differences in weapons and the various upgrades were tiny. Like you finally get a skill rank increase and it's a 3% boost to your ability to parry, or you can pick between two weapons that deal either 5-9 damage or 6-8 damage. It's meaningless and not very exciting. Second, some maps just gently caress you over and there's not much you can do about it. I remember an "ambush" map, where the ambushing team is so spread out and the ambushed team so concentrated that it gave a huge advantage to the ambushed team! That's literally the opposite of how that map is described Third, your team is tracking persistent injuries and has to be cautious or get hosed over, but the enemy teams do not. Despite this, you're pretty evenly matched in each battle, so it feels like a long slow grind to defeat rather than building up to be bigger and bigger badasses. Hopefully, a Necromunda game will recognize these problems and do something to fix them. Necromunda's way cooler than Mordheim, and it deserves a great video game. Like XCOM. Get the guys who made XCOM.
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Jan 19, 2017 20:03
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JcDent posted:I wouldn't know, I never heard anything about it.
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Jan 20, 2017 02:10
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New Warhammer Quest standalone announced - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/01/24/your-quest-continues/Games Workshop posted:Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower was one of the highlights of last year’s Warhammer Age of Sigmar releases (and that’s saying a lot, because there were some great ones). The return of the classic format, but set in the Mortal Realms, was an instant hit, and we’ve been bombarded ever since with questions about a follow on game. It sounds like it might be a little less WEIRD WORLD MAGIC TOWER OF WEIRD, and more LET'S GO BASH MONSTERS IN THE SEWER, which for my personal tastes is a welcome change, though I enjoy both.
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Jan 24, 2017 17:29
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There is room in my heart for both kinds of adventure. I'm just happy they're sticking with a slightly more grounded setting, and I hope they have some more human-looking heroes to reflect that.
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Jan 24, 2017 17:37
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This year's Horus Heresy Weekender is going to have an Adeptus Titanicus game using 40K scale titans. And can someone have the old SG thread locked?
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Jan 24, 2017 17:37
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SRM posted:There is room in my heart for both kinds of adventure. I'm just happy they're sticking with a slightly more grounded setting, and I hope they have some more human-looking heroes to reflect that. Yeah, definitely. I just personally enjoy the more grounded setting, I'm an Old World junkie at heart. I like that they're doing standalone games in the various settings in that respect, room for all tastes. Also, Gangs of Commoragh isn't looking too shabby either - https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/01/21/combat-in-the-dark-city/
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Jan 24, 2017 17:41
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berzerkmonkey posted:And can someone have the old SG thread locked? Sent a PM to Pierzak requesting a lock. Soon we'll corner the market on discussing standalone plastic mans games.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:31
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More grounded, with a sigmarine, a vampire, a steampunk dwarf from the steampunk dorfs that had been rumoured as far back as summer and a high elf mage.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:33
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All existing models. Dorf Engineer, Dark Elf Fleetmaster, High Elf Swordmaster and Sigmarine Castellant. More curious about what enemy models they're chucking in there. There's Blightkings, Blood Reavers, Acolytes and a Sorcerer on the box, if they chuck in the multi-part kits that'd be kinda crazy good for value.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:40
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JcDent posted:More grounded, with a sigmarine, a vampire, a steampunk dwarf from the steampunk dorfs that had been rumoured as far back as summer and a high elf mage.
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Jan 24, 2017 20:35
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SRM posted:Sewers are more grounded More undergrounded, perhaps? 
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Jan 24, 2017 20:43
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SRM posted:Sewers are more grounded than floating daemon towers from a different dimension. Weren't Silver Towers a terrain piece in WHFB and a unit in Warmaster? We'll see it when it comes. I dunno if I'll be able to justify dropping money on it.
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Jan 24, 2017 21:14
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Silver Towers of Tzeentch were/are a unit in Epic and Apocalypse.
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Jan 24, 2017 21:17
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If that dorf's rules aren't changed, he's busted as hell. Currently, if he shoots his shotgun (whether he hits or not) he gets an additional attack on a 3+. He keeps shooting as long as you make those rolls. I've only played one game with that chracter and he tore through everything virtually solo. That player ranked up like four times while my poor chaos lord only managed one. Looks like this new set is just going to be a bunch of reboxed sprues. I already have the dwarf engineer, high elf swordmaster, and the chaos sorcerer, but if this is a solid expansion, I'll pick it up anyways. Given the prices on previous boxed games I probably wouldn't be losing out on too much. That said, sewers ain't sewers without skaven. 
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Jan 24, 2017 22:35
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I stayed up way too late watching Fury Road last night and had multiple Ork-gasms. I really need to finish up my Gorkamorka vehicles. In BB news, the Mighty Zug is available for preorder (18 GBP/$22.50):  I kind of like this model - it has the character the normal Human sculpts are lacking.
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Jan 27, 2017 14:42
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While it looks pretty good, god drat that pricing is absurd. £18 can almost get you a full team of regular players. FW need to stop buying into their own hype, resin is not the 'premium' material is was once seen as and certainly isn't worth paying a large markup for the inevitable issues of having to get replacement parts or bending bits back into the right shape due to FW's lousy QC.
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Jan 27, 2017 16:37
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Oh yeah, plastic 4ever. Mk III are almost perfect. Almost. They split the jetpac top (with the nozzles) in two for aome loving reason and now my marines have an unseemly seam on their packs.
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Jan 27, 2017 16:41
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Zark the Damned posted:While it looks pretty good, god drat that pricing is absurd. £18 can almost get you a full team of regular players. It's probably less the material and more the labor involved. Resin takes time to pour, cure, and dry, much more so than metal or plastics. But yeah, they are still overpriced.
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Jan 27, 2017 19:20
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Plastic is pricey because of thr mold, at least that's what blessed Leperflesh told us two GW Death Threads ago.
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Jan 27, 2017 19:45
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JcDent posted:Plastic is pricey because of thr mold, at least that's what blessed Leperflesh told us two GW Death Threads ago. Yeah. Injection-molded plastic requires high strength steel molds which are very very expensive to produce. But, once made, they last a very long time and the plastic injection molding process itself is less labor intensive than making resin or even metal models, and the material couldn't be cheaper. So you make injection-molded plastic molds for models you expect to sell in high volume, and you stick to resin for low-volume products. That said, GW seems to just decide in advance that some stuff can't possibly sell well as plastic so send it to forgeworld, and other stuff will obviously sell great so let's do it with the citadel brand in plastic. And forgeworld clearly has a team with more leeway for artistic input. And there's stuff that is just "traditionally" forgeworld (like chaos dwarves) so there are entrenched practices that are probably completely immune to the input of sales projections. It's messy. The fact that GW owns its own injection molded plastic production lines further complicate matters, because in all likelihood their process for making their plastic molds is far more expensive than it has to be. Certainly the Chinese seem to manage to do it far more cheaply, and I don't think that's entirely down to labor costs. One more thing to note: "finecast" was an innovation to permit GW to use molds made for pewter models, to produce resin models. That allowed them to use a cheaper material than the tin-based pewter without having to recreate their molds. Their R&D was clearly incomplete when they first started producing finecast, evidenced by the massive QA problems. Anyway, finecast doesn't fit neatly into the above split between cheap resin molds with high per-model labor and medium per-model material costs vs. expensive plastic molds with low per-model labor and low per-model material costs.
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Jan 27, 2017 20:03
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Chinese are doing good plastics? Of what? Because every chinese ham poo poo I ever ordered feels like resin and smells like cancer. Also, yay, summoned Leperflesh.
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Jan 27, 2017 20:09
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Leperflesh posted:One more thing to note: "finecast" was an innovation to permit GW to use molds made for pewter models, to produce resin models. That allowed them to use a cheaper material than the tin-based pewter without having to recreate their molds. As an aside, the rubber you'd use for a resin casting is very different than that which you'd use for metal. A metal mold is a hard, vulcanized rubber, similar to what you'd find with an automobile tire. Resin molds, on the other hand, are much softer, and have a lot more give when removing a fragile resin model. JcDent posted:Chinese are doing good plastics? Of what? Because every chinese ham poo poo I ever ordered feels like resin and smells like cancer.
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Jan 27, 2017 21:23
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JcDent posted:Chinese are doing good plastics? Of what? Because every chinese ham poo poo I ever ordered feels like resin and smells like cancer. Recasts are always going to suck, yeah. They're making mold masters by casting plastic parts, you have to lose some resolution doing that. But like... practicaly everything made of plastic is made of chinese plastic, man. Think outside of wargames models, I'm talking about iphones and food containers and tv casings and laptop keys and printer parts and plastic fabrics etc. etc. etc. But also a lot of other companies that make plastic miniatures, have them made in China. I'm including Taiwan as "China" here. berzerkmonkey posted:I thought the same thing until I saw some Finecast still on the sprue (Settra, to be precise). Having done my own metal centrifugal casting, there is no way they could have recut a metal mold to add the sprue sections they needed in that layout. I'm not sure what GW did, but they sure did not repurpose the old metal molds, My understanding is that they used the metal molds, or the masters used to make them, as masters for making the finecast molds. And, that the finecast is a resin technology that uses sprues, so it's not standard resin process. Obviously GW has a very strong interest in keeping their technology innovations secret so we will not find out unless there is a serious breach of their security. Finecast is not exactly like normal resin and not exactly like old metal, but some sort of compromise that let the company reproduce metal models using cheaper material. Naturally they charge far more for their finecast models than they did for the original metal ones, but that's a separate issue. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Jan 27, 2017 |
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Jan 27, 2017 21:36
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The fact that GW products are made in the U.K. is why I don't immediately freak out about their prices. Yeah, there's some name tax for sure, but considering a board game of mostly cardboard is $60 MSRP while being completely made in China makes Blood Bowl at $99 not that big a deal. If those board games were printed in the US they'd be $99 easy.
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Jan 27, 2017 22:53
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