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This is not just a thread about the United States of America but because I live in the USA this post, and all my posts, are going to largely focus on issues within the USA. Without a doubt, these issues surely exist in countries outside of America and I welcome posters from foreign countries to contribute to this thread. I would like to know how these things are handled and how they manifest and effect other places. Before we begin I must preface this by stating this post is not supported by data, but data is welcome. This post is based wholly on my observations and experiences. The goal of this thread is to discuss the merits of every "side," to understand what they want out of the world, and explore what A Better World truly is together. That out of the way,  Thread Rules: 1. D&D leans liberal. I want more conservative voices to be welcome in this thread. If a poster does post a really lovely and objectionable thing please respond by explaining why what they advocate is poo poo. Don't extend that to also claim they are poo poo. (No Ad Hominem attacks.) 2. Speak for you. You don't speak for every person who aligns with you. Talk about what you want and what your goals and agendas are. Talk about what you hope the effects will be. Stuff like that. Statements like, "All feminists" or "All libertarians" or whatever are not welcome here. (Exception: Issues that truly do effect all individuals of a group.) 3. This thread is about learning what each side wants. Not telling them what they want. You can tell them the consequences, you can explain the effects, you can link to facts and data and you can point out the flaws but please try to refrain from telling somebody what they're doing or what they believe. Identifying the Sides: As far as I can see, while there are many groups or individuals on each side who want more specific or different things, they largely break up into two factions. The Progressives aka the SJWs: Acknowledging a lack of uniformity, individuals in this group largely want a more inclusive, accepting, tolerant and sensitive society with equal rights, equal access, and privileges and protections for everyone. This group uses trigger warnings to safeguard victims and the sensitive. Creates safe spaces for minority or underprivileged groups to speak or helps them make their own space. (Often amplifying their voices and advocating for them.) This group is interested in having more diversity of voices and perceptions everywhere. They want people of color, the LGBTQ+, religious minorities, the disabled, women, and others represented in government and media and want their voices heard. This group wants us to be respectful and considerate of others and would very much like it if we could all start caring about each other (and everybody really) as soon as possible. This group can be easily offended, extreme members of this group collect and accumulate special statuses excessively and they can be very obnoxious. Progressives often struggle to speak with people, not for them. Politically they're largely interested in: Anti-discrimination laws, a living wage, equal pay for equal work, paid family leave, women's health, accessible abortion services, wealth inequality, rising costs of education, universal health care, same sex marriage, and social services. (I'm on this side.) The Deplorables: a name I refer to them by, not out of any judgment on them, but because it is the moniker they appear to have widely embraced. If there is a better way to refer to or identify this group let me know and I'll change this. Again, acknowledging a lack of uniformity, (*builds strawman*) this group largely thinks we're all becoming a bunch of super sensitive babies and we need to toughen up and stop loving crying. They are contemptuous and condemning of political correctness, safe spaces, racial/social justice, etc. They equate reactions and criticism to their opinions and beliefs as censorship and an infringement on their right to free speech and view any inclusion or representation of others with hostility. (Often dismissing it as marketing or pandering.) They feel they are entitled to be edgy and insensitive and seem to revel in upsetting people and hurting their feelings. They speak their minds and tell it how it is and if you don't like it go gently caress yourself. This is Trump's America now, sugar! Grab 'em by the pussy! MAGA!! Politically this group is interested in: Jobs, helping the struggling (white) working class, guns, states rights, freedom of religion (not yours, Muslim  ), getting those icky illegal immigrants out of 'merica, law and order ( ), and ending free handouts because it creates dependency. Hard work, giftedness or talent are the keys to success. (Bootstraps, etc!)This group is not to be lumped in with the Alt Right/White Nationalists. Because, while there is significant overlap, I believe the Deplorables animosity towards the other is largely due to misinformation, a lack of familiarity and contact with the other, and ignorance. I feel that, with proper outreach and education, we can help these people realize that the folks they don't like, fear, and blame everything on are actually people same as them and in the same loving poo poo pile they are. Whereas the Alt Right/White Nationalists are consummate racists who truly hate all kinds of people and there is no reasoning with them. They're just awful people and literal Nazis. (*stands back and admires her strawman.*) In general I think this "toughen up, pussy" movement from the Deplorables is ostensibly a conservative backlash to the sweeping progressive gains we have made as a society and our continued push towards a safer, more accepting and tolerant country. The progressive gains we have made (examples: woman's suffrage, birth control, working women, civil rights, the Americans with Disabilities Act, and same sex marriage, just to name a few) are largely stable and secure. To strip these gains back would be a hard fought battle and, while I don't doubt that is an aspiration for some, the general sentiment seems to be to stem the tide if not stop it entirely. It is all very, "Enough is enough." (My perspective.) In pushing for change people like me are trying to build the world and future we want (in comparison to the world and future they want.) We don't want to live in their world because it is oppressive and restrictive and really only benefits them and people like them (but, ha ha, not really. We'll get to that.) But they don't want to live in our world because our desire for a world where everyone can thrive and be respected is somehow oppressive and restrictive on them. It is this belief and opinion, that a demand for consideration and sensitivity, that respect of another person, is oppressive. And that this population of individuals feel they are losing something by the addition of more diverse voices and more tolerance that troubles me the most. That a more tolerant, accepting, and loving society is more oppressive and restrictive when it is anything but. It is my opinion that the Deplorables aren't really suffering with things the way they are now. (Not to the extent the others are at any rate.) And they feel that things like Affirmative Action and Non-Discrimination policies actually shut the door on them and limit their opportunities. They are more concerned with safeguarding their own quality of life than making a better place for everyone. This sucks and is really lovely. Without a doubt there really are only so many lucrative and cushy positions in thriving companies or space in colleges or in highly desirable fields and yes, every person that is not you is technically a loss for you. There is nothing wrong with wanting a place for you. But what the Deplorables seem to fail to realize is what society gains as a whole by having these diverse voices and perspectives involved. (Also even if they shut the door on all the other people there still wouldn't be enough room for all of them.) And when minority groups start to learn the tricks to succeed in the system they change the game and move the goal posts because every success for someone not them is a loss for them. (Example: Entry into good colleges being based on academic success and achievement. When Asians started competing they changed it to requiring extra curriculars as well. When Asians started going into music, debate, chess club, etc they started pushing for emphasis in sports and athletics.) It is this that I really want to focus on. That the Deplorables feel they are losing something when others succeed. It's a huge problem. I believe they find our push for diversity and equality objectionable largely because of this. They aren't really seeing the big picture of what we gain when these other groups gain influence, rights, and privileges. That every LGBTQ+, person of color, woman, religious minority or other minority group that has a voice and representation is NOT one less person speaking for them, but one more person speaking WITH them. What world do the Deplorables want? Apparently one that makes the ultra rich even richer and utterly shits on the poor while doing next to nothing for the Deplorables? But seriously, I have no idea and I would really like to know. Because the world we have now is one where prosperity and comfort is bought, not earned. Where a quality life is conditional and not acquired though merit or achievement but through luck. (No really, the real key to success is either being born into it or have connections -- to know a guy who knows a guy to get the right eyes on you then be fortunate enough to be picked. A person can work hard and excel and do many things to improve their chances of standing out and being noticed but it ultimately requires being picked, that's luck.) Where wealth and influence is hoarded and leveraged by a elite select few who are so removed from us that their wants and needs are diametrically opposed to our own. Where the wealthy people thrive and dominate while the gifted, talented and hard working people roll the loving dice. Where one chronic illness or terrible accident can pull the rug right out from under a person. And where the poorer and less fortunate people suffer. And that can't really be what they want, right? From what I see, this Class War is about different/opposing views on how the world should be. But is whatever the Deplorables want truly the way forward? I personally feel we've gotten much better as a people and as a society because of all these progressive gains and that the way forward is to become even more caring. But what do I know. What is a better world to you? What should a better world be? What world do you want?
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Jan 10, 2017 08:16
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 21:18 |
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