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Jack Gladney posted:Nobody's saying Obama and Clinton were good. We're saying that Trump is a much accelerated form of what made them bad, plus an evil form of nationalism. So what's the downside again? 
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Jan 15, 2017 01:54
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khwarezm posted:First off, I don't care about Clinton and you can badmouth her to hell and back, it makes no difference to me, what I care about is what weaknesses Sanders had that she was able to exploit to grind him down and win the nomination handily. Clinton stomped him in the south and states with closed primaries but he was actually able to pull out Trump like upsets in states that ended up giving Trump the election. Trying to frame Clinton as the black choice when Bernie was actually the choice of under 30 african americans and she lost the general due to her failure to get Obama level numbers with African-American, Latino and younger voters shows you that the 'lean exclusively on identity politics' strategy is a failure. It didn't work in 2016. It won't work in 2018. And it really won't work in 2020 if you want to make Trump a one term president. The fact that Bernie Sanders (a guy with nearly no national presence) was able to give her a run for her money and Donald Trump (a loudmouth blowhard with zero political experience) was able to beat her shows just how powerful populism is. It's transcends all barriers. And that doesn't mean that minority issues have to get scuttled in the future so the Democrats can win an election. They just have to cast a big tent again and represent everybody. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 04:28
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khwarezm posted:He didn't perform as well with Black millenials as you guys are suggesting, going off that article it was a difference of only 5%, Sanders won overall millennials much more thoroughly than just that. He also wasn't able to mobilize them to get out and vote very well either. Either way he still lost Black voters on the whole very hard, and those voters aren't going away anytime soon, they need to be wooed if leftists expect much of a future in the States. You're not making any sense. It's somehow Bernie's fault for not energizing the under 30 african american crowd (despite winning it) but we need to lean super hard on identity politics to woo them (despite them not showing up for Hillary using that exact strategy) khwarezm posted:As it is right now Economic populism in America has a bit of problem in the sense that it doesn't appeal as much to non-white people. khwarezm posted:All that Clinton really ended up doing was being better at exploiting identity politics than Sanders, but she still wasn't very good at it, at all, and thus lost the election. jfc The left is doomed in this country. Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 08:48 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 08:40
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khwarezm posted:Holy gently caress you are completely shameless aren't you? I didn't say economic populism can't work, or that it will never appeal to non-whites, I'm saying so far a platform that's 90% economic issues didn't make nearly as much of a splash among ethnic minorities as would be expected, so for the future its obvious that building a coalition for the far left is going to involve making more overtures to *shudder* identity politics. Have you read anything I posted? Will I link this article again? Here are some choice quotes to show how he could have done better but didn't: You seem to be conflating 'Bernie lost the primary' with 'Bernie lost the primary because he's bad at identity politics'. Which, even if that was true, Clinton lost the general despite leaning on that as hard as any candidate possibly could. There's no way she could have done identity politics 'better' (Also, ironically, Bernie was hurt by giving BLM the mic and listening to them while Hillary had no backlash from talking down to them and having security escort them out) (Also also, are you missing the fact that Fusion is owned by Univision which is co-owned by Haim Saban - who was one of Hillary Clinton's biggest supporters? http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/haim-saban-hillary-clinton-donor-230711) Call Me Charlie fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jan 15, 2017 |
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Jan 15, 2017 16:32
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