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SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
Clearly the crew has some weird power blessing them as the other two or three tanks you start with get bogged down and knocked out by midway the mission!

The newest map in the december update for multiplayer uses the village in the 2nd part of that campaign with some new bits added including the obvious Zeppelin wreck.

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MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

Poil posted:

The battles seem awfully skillfully coordinated for ww1. :v:

The pigeon bit was pretty neat, but the precision of the artillery was just silly. Not to mention the ludicrous luck involved.

I laughed a little bit at the 4 digit grid reference. To be fair, WW1 gunners had their tables pretty well laid out on a static battlefield but the tactic was very much quantity over quality.

(For reference, for a fire mission in modern times you require a minimum 8-digit grid reference (using the Military Grid Reference System MGRS), that takes you down to a 10 sq m area of error. 10 digits will take you down to 1 sq m. A 4 digit reference is 1 sq KM).

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
The Mark V style tanks in multiplayer too have more variety, with one class being infantry support with mostly machine guns and another having a AT rifle mounted on the front to knock out vehicles easily. But the default Mark V sponson armed cannons have an ammunition type not present in single plater, canister shot which fires a spread of ball bearings that completely mess up infantry short range in exchange for losing distance and accuracy with the default HE shells.

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005


Things I Noticed:

They're taking a really rather odd liberty with time. The thing about waves of infantry crashing against concrete? Total bollocks; it would be fine in 1916, but this is supposed to be the Second Battle of Cambrai in late 1918. In the real world we are now three months into a major offensive, during which the BEF and the French have together advanced 50 miles, making repeated opportunistic attacks against a German army on the point of collapse, and proven that they've finally solved a problem like trench warfare. The critical breakthrough occurred in early August at the Battle of Amiens and I have no idea they didn't just set this at Amiens instead of Cambrai, especially since they then end by using the fog that was a major factor at Amiens. (Unless the chapter ends up lasting a month and runs through to the Armistice, that's the only reason I can think of to deliberately make it wrong.)

No compliments on active service! Saluting was (and still is) strictly forbidden anywhere further forward than the General's laundry, for the obvious reason that it identifies an officer. On the other hand, they did take the trouble to dress the officers in a private's uniform; of course, putting your officers in battle in distinctive uniforms just makes them easier to kill. The presence of the pigeon, of course, is also accurate, as is our character's brief unfamiliarity with the driving system. Mark V tanks were the first British tanks that were capable of being piloted by a driver alone; earlier models had a much less advanced gearbox and steering system, and had to be driven by a navigator and two gearsmen. And they really did walk around inside a cramped single compartment with the boiling hot engine (yeah, it's too quiet, but we need to hear them talk to each other) and all the spinning moving parts right the gently caress there.

And they really did give their tanks names. The whole thing was started off by one W. Churchill (you might have heard of him), whose initial idea for a gigantic trench-smashing steamroller* eventually mutated itself into a gigantic land battleship, or landship. Since sea-going ships had names, clearly a landship should have a name as well, and even though the War Office did try to use a system, anyone from the rank of Brigadier on down generally preferred to call a tank by some mean and nasty name given to it by its crew instead of something like "Butter" or "Blooms" off some staff officer's List of Approved Names for Tanks.

*Churchill's job back then was First Lord of the Admiralty, the political head of the Royal Navy; he funded the initial development out of his own discretionary budget so nobody could tell him to stop. The War Office, who ran the Army, thought it was all a drat fool idea, so for the first six months or so of British tank development, the Navy was building a weapon for the Army that the Army didn't want. Of course, the reason everyone thought Churchill was full of poo poo back then was because he was presiding over the Gallipoli campaign, a clusterfuck of epic proportions that saw him quite correctly sacked after it all went pear-shaped.

The hellscape they're confronted with is close enough for jazz; the area around Cambrai had seen the First Battle in 1917 and had been poo poo-kicked on and off by various artillery for a good couple of years or so. The general lack of elaborate trench systems like in this famous photograph is also accurate; for one thing, these are emergency defence positions, and also the Germans had been using defence-in-depth tactics based around wide zones of defence with chokepoints and strong-points rather than rigid adherence to deep strong trench lines for the last two years.

The enemy artillery fire, though, is acceptable horseshit. (When it gets real, it does a great job of conveying survivors' descriptions of how disorienting and overpowering it is to be heavily shelled and not die.) A major part of the successes of 1918 was what they called counter-battery fire (which they had down to a fine art); using your artillery to shoot at the enemy's artillery to destroy or suppress it, so it couldn't lay down the kind of murderous defensive fire it lays down in the game. In pretty much every successful battle, the men went over the top and walked forward in considerable safety; the tanks rolled forward from their starting points and did the same. The goal was to get at the German infantry while they were still hiding in their trenches from those parts of your artillery that weren't doing counter-battery fire, and kill or capture them without a fight and without taking casualties in No Man's Land.

So, to be properly realistic, we should have spent an extended period of time just rolling forward a mile or few and occasionally shooting something until we started to get through the first defence zone and on to whatever's behind it, and then we'd start to take a worrying weight of artillery fire. Fine to have that in your game if you're an indie bedroom programmer, or working for Telltale; less fine in a tentpole AAA shooter which demands immediate action. On the same line of reasoning, yes, of course the Mark V had two 6-pound guns per sponson plus four more Hotchkiss machine guns (but not unlimited ammo), but the driver didn't control any of them...

The tank's role here is broadly accurate; cut paths through the wire, destroy bunkers/machine guns/trench mortars/infantry guns/anything else that can deal force-multiplied death to your own infantry, then keep the momentum of the assault going. Field guns would be kept several miles back from your initial defence system; the Germans would have stationed their Minenwerfer trench mortars and infantry guns up there instead. (Of course, if we say that we've skipped the first few cakewalk assaults and have advanced a mile or so by the time the mission starts, then you can kinda-sorta rationalise having field guns dotted around the place.)

The German A7V tank is of course given a major upgrade for the game for balance reasons. Don't worry, in real life it was shite, needed an entire 20-man platoon to drive and crew, and they only managed to build 20 of them before the Armistice. But, you know, how do you model and balance Entente reliance on technological innovation vs German reliance on perfecting infantry tactics? You could try, or you could just make the A7V into something that wasn't a complete chocolate teapot.

I do like that, rivet-counting complaints aside: at the end of the mission, survival boils down to telling the artillery where you are and what's going on. Two thirds of all casualties during the war were caused by artillery.

MA-Horus posted:

I laughed a little bit at the 4 digit grid reference. To be fair, WW1 gunners had their tables pretty well laid out on a static battlefield but the tactic was very much quantity over quality.

(For reference, for a fire mission in modern times you require a minimum 8-digit grid reference (using the Military Grid Reference System MGRS), that takes you down to a 10 sq m area of error. 10 digits will take you down to 1 sq m. A 4 digit reference is 1 sq KM).

Well, the grid reference itself is bollocks and bears no relation to the actual system, so what are you going to do? I'm lolling far more at the idea that a tank commander would tell a howitzer battery commander what elevation to set his guns at...

(An actual grid reference would have been something like this, assuming the tank and battery commanders could be sure they were both working off the same map: J.22.c.1.4. That would have offered 50 yards' accuracy; most guns were only expected to be accurate to within 100 yards, but it could easily have been better if they were firing at a pre-registered position. The guns would have fired more than once; fire to support isolated units would have attracted a whole shitload of ordnance for at least a minute and probably much longer. Compression of time and events again, just like how we didn't see the tank commander wrestling with maps to generate his map reference.)

Poil posted:

Not to mention the ludicrous luck involved.

You don't survive a battle, or extended periods of front-line service in dangerous areas, without just a little bit of ludicrous good fortune. Survivor stories are full of ridiculous lucky breaks and moments when something could easily have gone against them and didn't; the people who could tell the stories of not getting lucky breaks are all dead in a shell-hole somewhere.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
I think they hand wave the fact you can fire your guns and drive with the crew inside, when you pop out for a brief stroll in the battle they remain and cover you using the guns if they can see fritz coming for you/them.

Still with only a handful of dudes operating and reloading those guns must be a pain in the arse. Also, this part of the campaign has some really nice tense music.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004


Trin Tragula posted:



The German A7V tank is of course given a major upgrade for the game for balance reasons. Don't worry, in real life it was shite, needed an entire 20-man platoon to drive and crew, and they only managed to build 20 of them before the Armistice. But, you know, how do you model and balance Entente reliance on technological innovation vs German reliance on perfecting infantry tactics? You could try, or you could just make the A7V into something that wasn't a complete chocolate teapot.




I'm the little spoon in the driver's seat

Jokes aside, I really appreciate the effortpost by the way and look forward to more of them, assuming you're in the mood!

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
Video game AV7 is terrifying in BF1, despite being a moving slightly angled shoe box in the right hands (especially with the higher caliber cannons instead of machine guns) it is a blood drenched unstoppable landshark of chaos and misery that every gun, plane and AT grenade should be aimed at.

In some true spirit though, the default one with the machine guns is a bit rubbish.

DMorbid
Jan 6, 2011

With our special guest star, RUSH! YAYYYYYYYYY

I've never been the slightest bit interested in the previous Battlefield games, but I may have to buy this one even though I'm not into online shooters. How are the console versions? My PC is getting a bit long in the tooth and I can't really afford to upgrade right now.

Ainsley McTree
Feb 19, 2004


I've got it on PS4. Load times are a bit on the long side, and the frame rate dips ever so slightly in moments of extreme action but it's not too noticeable most of the time.

Looks absolutely stunning and, like any fps, it's harder to aim well with a controller than a mouse, but your opponents are similarly limited so it evens out.

Tl;dr--it's good

DMorbid
Jan 6, 2011

With our special guest star, RUSH! YAYYYYYYYYY

Excellent, PS4 it is then, unless I manage to conjure up the money for a PC upgrade before the PS4 version drops in price. As much as I like what I'm seeing of this game, I'd rather not pay 70 euros for it.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
Grab the PS4 version for now and wait until your PC is up to standard and then grab the PC version of the game bundled with the eventual French and Russian faction themed DLC if you take a liking to the game.

I got a question reguarding the LP, how will you do the optional stealth stuff? will you play close to the bone stealth and revisit the mission with a much more loud and improvised play style as a bonus with somebody else commenting about the game with you?

MA-Horus
Dec 3, 2006

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

I, for one, anticipate the Brusilov Offensive DLC

(GOOD GOD NO I DO NOT)

A "legends of WW1" pack might be interesting though. Angels of Mons, Miracle on the Marne, Vimy, Battles of the Frontier, Tannenberg...

And then a "Blood and Mud" DLC which includes Verdun, Brusilov...but to make those right they have to be incredibly brutal. Like, "If you step off the duck boards, you will slowly sink in this mud the consistency of glue until you drown in it" kinda brutal.

Marshal Radisic
Oct 9, 2012


MA-Horus posted:

I, for one, anticipate the Brusilov Offensive DLC

(GOOD GOD NO I DO NOT)

A "legends of WW1" pack might be interesting though. Angels of Mons, Miracle on the Marne, Vimy, Battles of the Frontier, Tannenberg...

And then a "Blood and Mud" DLC which includes Verdun, Brusilov...but to make those right they have to be incredibly brutal. Like, "If you step off the duck boards, you will slowly sink in this mud the consistency of glue until you drown in it" kinda brutal.

When the Russian DLC finally does roll out, I've been idly wondering if, because most of the game is set in later 1918, their maps will just skip into the Russian Civil War and we'll just have the Russians fighting other Russians. Mind you, bringing in some revolutionary stuff would be a good excuse to bring in the Battalion of Death and get some lady soldiers into the game.

Gargamel Gibson
Apr 24, 2014
The Battalion of Death seems like a pretty lazy and redundant name for a military unit. Oh no, these are the kind of soldiers that kill!

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
I consider it the opposite, if you are determined to bring more chaos and death to the Russian Civil War good god.

Skippy Granola
Sep 3, 2011

It's not what it looks like.
I bet it sounds better in russian

Nine of Eight
Apr 28, 2011


LICK IT OFF, AND PUT IT BACK IN
Dinosaur Gum

Scaramouche posted:

I knew as soon as he asked there'd be some pushy Canadian running in to take credit for Vimy ;)

Joking broseph, but don't forget the other stuff:
- Conscription Crisis and how it helped widen the gap further between English and French Canada

Fun fact about the WWI conscription crisis was that it was based on a flawed assumption that the French Canadians weren't volunteering . After the first postwar census if I am not mistaken, people realized that French Canadians had volunteered for service at similar rates to English Canadians. The thing is, huge amounts of them left the province to enlist in regiments that were perceived as having better reputations or nicer uniforms or any other sort of reason. My hometown just south of Montréal (Saint Lambert) holds the dubious distinction of having one of the highest enlistment rates in Canada with 10% of the Census population volunteering.

Nine of Eight fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Jan 19, 2017

Lazyfire
Feb 4, 2006

God saves. Satan Invests



Time for some sneaking. I keep harping on it, but BF1 really likes sneaking missions. You get two in the chapters about a tank and another in the airplane chapter and I don't want to guess how many in the chapters I haven't played (the Italian campaign has zero and is pure metal from start to finish). That's not to say these are bad chapters, by the way, I think for a BF game BF1 handles stealth stuff really well. You can break stealth at any time with limited repercussions anyway, so it's more optional for this war story than I make it seem. BF1 copied BF Hardline with some of the mechanics here as well. The little indicators over the heads of enemies are directly from that campaign, as is the idea of throwing spent casings to attract/distract enemies. Too bad you can't arrest people as well like in Hardline. Actually, I wish BF1 had pulled some more stuff directly from Hardline at times. Everyone always says the ability to pull health or ammo from allies is sorely needed in BF1, but I think what the game really needs is colored gas and fire from the grenades people throw so you know if you can wander into either without taking damage. Also, the ability to get intel from enemies you've downed with blunt melee weapons or a taser (unlikely in WWI, maybe make the medic syringe act like truth serum?) on where the other members of the team are would be great. But, enough of that.

I like how this mission works, you get in, sneak a bit with low stakes (Bess will come rolling in and help if you get caught) and then get a big old fight at the end of the level. Fair warning, the mission is longer than the others we're likely to see through the LP simply because I do try to stay stealthed for the most part and that means being on the lookout for assholes who will spot me. One of the things I still have trouble getting over is the fact that the Germans will just shout at each other or themselves at random and it makes me think I've been spotted over and over. No idea why they have such terrible volume control. You would think that in the middle of a forest with terrible visibility they would try to be a bit quieter.

Nuramor
Dec 13, 2012

Most Amewsing Prinny Ever!
Well, most of the yellin gwas about how one guy was really miserable because his superior officer was picking on him and how everyone else felt that he should just shut up about it.
These roles switched, naturally, because it's just AI idle banter. But yes, most of the yelling was about how there should be less yelling. :D

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Lazyfire posted:

One of the things I still have trouble getting over is the fact that the Germans will just shout at each other or themselves at random and it makes me think I've been spotted over and over. No idea why they have such terrible volume control. You would think that in the middle of a forest with terrible visibility they would try to be a bit quieter.

That's just the German language.

DMorbid
Jan 6, 2011

With our special guest star, RUSH! YAYYYYYYYYY

Certainly, when I speak German (usually after several pints) it generally sounds more or less like that.

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
It is pretty funny though random idle complaints added to the player tension and experience.

Also, speaking of Germans having a great time DICE released a video of the professional and hard working antics of the German voice actors recording stuff for the game.

Also, this is driving me nuts but for some reason in game the British Commonwealth soldiers are part of something called the Railway Regiment according to their shoulder patches. I am pretty sure there was no such thing, was there Trin? considering also on the opposite sleeve they have a generic national symbol or whatever terrible internet joke the player picks for their emblem it might just be a case of VIDEO GAMES but still it is driving me up the wall.

azren
Feb 14, 2011


Iretep posted:

Best way to simulate a western front ww1 game is probably some kind of survival game instead of a straight out fps game. Basically most of the time you would be more just looking for stuff to survive like if food wasnt coming to the front youd have to find rats or shoot the messangers horse. Disease would be an issue too. Random events could be gas attacks, artillery fire which would lead to the opposing side forces doing a pointless attack where they all die and so on.

You could do it kinda like This War of Mine, and probably end up with something pretty good.

Skippy Granola
Sep 3, 2011

It's not what it looks like.
All I can think of is Blackadder Goes Forth where they eat someone's beloved carrier pigeon

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

Skippy Granola posted:

All I can think of is Blackadder Goes Forth where they eat someone's beloved carrier pigeon

THE FLANDERS PIGEON MURDERER!

Man it really is hard to not menton that TV show when WW1 stuff shows up.

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm 😤 not a 🦸🏻‍♂️hero...🧜🏻



SeanBeansShako posted:

THE FLANDERS PIGEON MURDERER!

Man it really is hard to not menton that TV show when WW1 stuff shows up.

Just noticed yer name, aren't you around 100 years late for a European conflict?

Skippy Granola
Sep 3, 2011

It's not what it looks like.

SeanBeansShako posted:

THE FLANDERS PIGEON MURDERER!

Man it really is hard to not menton that TV show when WW1 stuff shows up.

Thank you, Darling

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

Samovar posted:

Just noticed yer name, aren't you around 100 years late for a European conflict?

It's cool, shako's and older style head gear were still worn at least until 1915 in some European army branches (usually artillery and some cavalry) until 1915/16. Then all the older military fashion was swiftly abolished due to both the obvious reasons and to do save money/materiel.

Plus Sean Bean somehow will show up in this one form or another. Dude is really branching out hard into VA work.

Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005


Things I Noticed:

Here's a quick "did you know?" Did you know that modern-day officers of the Royal Tank Regiment carry ]a big knobbly ash plant stick instead of the short cane issued to most other officers? In this war, it was far from unknown for the officer to walk in front of his tank when crossing boggy or uncertain ground, poking it with the stick at intervals to satisfy himself that it was still solid enough to support the tank.

There's much less to say than the last video; where the last mission I'd describe as "a WW1 game", this mission (and the multiplayer) is "a game with WW1 trappings", and we'll stick to that rather than turn into Comic Book Guy counting rivets. It's all stuff like "the Germans should be wearing Stahlhelm helmets by now instead of the one or two who are in the iconic Pickelhaube pointy leather caps" "The light tanks are supposed to be captured French Renault FTs, but where did these fuckers get them from if they were being attacked by the BEF?" "The tank engine is so loud the Germans should have heard it coming from miles off." (When they were on the move anywhere within a mile of the enemy, this was deliberately accompanied by heavy aerial flights to drown the noise out a little so the enemy either wouldn't notice the tank engines in the general din, or think they were aircraft engines.) "Is it just me, or is there a hell of a lot of greenery around for what's supposed to be mid-October?"

Let's say some nice things about the FT instead. The French tank design project is something that urgently needs a lot more attention from English-speakers to figure out just what the gently caress was going on over there. We do know that their father of tanks, Colonel Estienne, said back in 1914 something like "Victory in this war will go to the first one who figures how how to put a 75mm gun on a motor car", and they'd prototyped something called the "Frot-Laffly" machine in March 1915 which looks like a tank, back when British tanks were just a gleam in Winston Churchill's eye (and one which was a far less pressing matter than his desire to literally set a river in Africa on fire). Then for no reason that I've ever seen explained in English, it took them about eight months to move to giving official contracts to the Schneider and Saint-Chamond companies to build a prototype tank, by which time the British effort had already moved past a prototype and was entering formal trials. British tanks of course debuted in mid-September 1916 during the Somme; French tanks weren't used until eight months later in the Nivelle Offensive, where they were just as underwhelming as the Mark Is were at Flers.

Rewind: for another not-sufficiently-explained reason, Louis Renault declined the chance to draw up his own tank prototype in late 1915 before changing his mind in July next year. Unlike everyone else who was designing tanks for the first time, his designs emphasised speed and flexibility over weight and power. The result; a small, cheap, light tank, the first to contain a gun in a rotating turret, which could be crewed by just two men (the commander doubled as gunner), and, critically, which moved faster than a man's walking pace, and fast enough to be a direct replacement in horse cavalry's old role of exploiting breakthroughs once they were achieved, the problem on which every offensive from Verdun in 1916 to the Second Battle of the Marne in July 1918 broke down. It took until mid-1918 to reach the battlefield (again, an inordinate amount of time; again, no good reason given in English) but made an immediate impact on arrival in numbers, and played a vital role in the French and American offensives that ended the war. Pretty much every modern tank ever built can draw a direct line back to the concepts first embodied in the Renault FT; Bess, as a Mark V heavy tank, is in the blind alley of tank design.

(And yeah, I'm a little irritated that as far as this mission is concerned, it seems the game's happy to present the FT as a German tank.)

SeanBeansShako posted:

Also, this is driving me nuts but for some reason in game the British Commonwealth soldiers are part of something called the Railway Regiment according to their shoulder patches. I am pretty sure there was no such thing, was there Trin? considering also on the opposite sleeve they have a generic national symbol or whatever terrible internet joke the player picks for their emblem it might just be a case of VIDEO GAMES but still it is driving me up the wall.

There's a non-zero chance that this might actually be an inside joke of some sort based on someone's ancestor. There was no "Railwayman's Battalion" infantry unit along the lines of the Sportsmen's Battalion and the various Pals, or suchlike; but there was a Railway Regiment in the Indian Army, which collected together their various railway-engineer units (most of whom served in the Middle East or Africa), and the Royal Engineers had a whole happy shitload of Railway Companies on the Western Front who worked building and maintaining both the existing French standard-gauge network, and also their own network of narrow-gauge Decauville military railways.

Skippy Granola posted:

All I can think of is Blackadder Goes Forth where they eat someone's beloved carrier pigeon

Readers of the Wipers Times will know that this is actually based on more than one true story!

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
Video game logic in the form of a Info dump codex hand waves the FT Tank and other non AV-7 variants as being captured and turned against their former owners by the Central Power forces in the game.

Which is understandible as there isn't enough of these vehicles to furniture each of the games factions in the multiplayer section. Still hoping eventually they'll introduce the Whippet light tank.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Funny enough I'm looking at the fate of all the A7V tanks and it looks like only one was actually destroyed in combat. The rest were either abandoned/scuttled after taking damage or getting stuck, scrapped by the Germans or Allies after the war ended, or captured and put on display.

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Trin Tragula posted:


There's a non-zero chance that this might actually be an inside joke of some sort based on someone's ancestor. There was no "Railwayman's Battalion" infantry unit along the lines of the Sportsmen's Battalion and the various Pals, or suchlike; but there was a Railway Regiment in the Indian Army, which collected together their various railway-engineer units (most of whom served in the Middle East or Africa), and the Royal Engineers had a whole happy shitload of Railway Companies on the Western Front who worked building and maintaining both the existing French standard-gauge network, and also their own network of narrow-gauge Decauville military railways.


There were also the Canadian Railway Troops, but they were mostly an engineering support group and I can't find any of their patches:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corps_of_Canadian_Railway_Troops

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
I found a two galleries of what the soldier models look like in multiplayer, in single player interestingly enough they seem a little more subdued and wear the occasional bit of obsolete clothing. Here is the gallery for the general infantry soldiers while here is a gallery with the vehicle specialists and cavalry units.

A lot of artistic licence has been used with some, I like the weird look of a British army cavalry soldier for some reason wearing a cuirass in the 20th century. The soldiers themselves are pretty much a composite mix of all the types of men who fought in the conflict and more or less just represent generic front line sentries, trench raiders and assault groups of the later part of the conflict rather than a specific regiment.

Lazyfire
Feb 4, 2006

God saves. Satan Invests



Time for some multiplayer stuff. Today we're looking at what has to be my least favorite class, the Scout Class.

Here's the thing, it isn't that I don't like the class itself, I don't like the people it attracts. On paper, the scout class is probably the best front line support class you could ask for in a game like BF1. The Flares, Decoy and Trench Periscope are built to spot enemies; the long range weapons and the sweet spot on sniper rifles (max damage within a certain distance, damage reduced outside of that range) means they are great for picking off enemies on or around points or for defending positions from a distance; trip mines keep them from being overwhelmed if they are defending a point and more assault-ready classes get too close. The bad part about Scouts is that humans play Battlefield games and the first thing a person with a sniper rifle does is get on the highest point they can find and start trying to plink away at the most distant enemies they can see. If you've ever played a Battlefield game you know the experience of seeing a grouping of snipers laying (or crouching) down next to each other on a ridge and just firing non-stop. Sometimes players from both teams will be feet away from each other and not know it. They don't fire flares, they don't use the trench periscope to spot enemies, they just lay down and fire and fire and fire and if they are extremely lucky they'll break double digit kills while not taking any objectives or helping the team in any serious way.

Seeing someone get a tank completely stuck in a useless spot is frustrating. Watching someone grab a plane only to jump out a second later to take the first objective is annoying. Seeing that all your options for spawning are a mile away from an objective on a hill with a third of your team while you have no points is one of the most infuriating things in a Battlefield game. The sad part is that DICE went out of their way to make it so you have viable "aggressive scout" builds by throwing in non-scoped versions of several rifles and they are totally good. Just fire a flare ahead of you and use that to figure out where you need to be aiming. Pistols are good enough that you can compete with support and medic players up close if you really have to. Instead, most snipers will sit and fire at pixels and complain in chat that the team isn't doing enough.

Due to popular demand DICE instituted a couple bolt action only game modes and made one of them a permanent game type called Back To Basics. No tanks or planes, no scopes, play any class with bolt actions used by the country you are playing as. It is a really neat concept that I want to do a video on at some point as a mode of bolt action guns with no real viable snipers is a neat idea. The scout class is the one thing that makes me miss all-class weapons. Running a shotgun scout was a joy in BF4, but DICE wanted players to fit class roles a bit more rigidly in this game so we get to dodge sniper fire wherever we go in this game.

Lobster God
Nov 5, 2008

SeanBeansShako posted:


A lot of artistic licence has been used with some, I like the weird look of a British army cavalry soldier for some reason wearing a cuirass in the 20th century.


The French in 1914, otoh...



(They were abandoned pretty rapidly, but weren't officially removed from field uniforms until late 1915)

SeanBeansShako
Nov 20, 2009

Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.
Yeah I was thinking of those too when I mentioned it.

As for the Scout class, I really love the idea but they should have either gated the long range scoped rifles at the far far end of the class level or made them exclusive a marksman pick up kit randomly spawned because people will sadly always enact their enemy at the gates elite sniper fantasties in multiplayer game until either the developers risk it or our sun dies.

Lazyfire
Feb 4, 2006

God saves. Satan Invests

SeanBeansShako posted:

Yeah I was thinking of those too when I mentioned it.

As for the Scout class, I really love the idea but they should have either gated the long range scoped rifles at the far far end of the class level or made them exclusive a marksman pick up kit randomly spawned because people will sadly always enact their enemy at the gates elite sniper fantasties in multiplayer game until either the developers risk it or our sun dies.

I loved the idea of making sniper rifles an elite class pickup or a vehicle spawn like entity. You would make the spot where the sniper class spawns on the map the hottest place in Battlefield in an instant.

The other thing DICE did to gently caress with snipers that I failed to mention in the video is that the various weather effects like fog and sandstorms will reduce visibility to nothing and make it impossible to see targets at regular sniper distances. I love when the fog rolls in because the game changes so quickly due to the poor sniping weather.

chitoryu12
Apr 24, 2014

Lazyfire posted:

I loved the idea of making sniper rifles an elite class pickup or a vehicle spawn like entity. You would make the spot where the sniper class spawns on the map the hottest place in Battlefield in an instant.

The other thing DICE did to gently caress with snipers that I failed to mention in the video is that the various weather effects like fog and sandstorms will reduce visibility to nothing and make it impossible to see targets at regular sniper distances. I love when the fog rolls in because the game changes so quickly due to the poor sniping weather.

The Forgotten Hope mod for BF1942 made sniper rifles, tripod-deployed machine guns, and some other weapons like StG 44s battlefield pickups. It did a great deal to make them very rare and force normal weapon usage.

Osama Dozen-Dongs
Nov 29, 2014

SeanBeansShako posted:

I found a two galleries of what the soldier models look like in multiplayer, in single player interestingly enough they seem a little more subdued and wear the occasional bit of obsolete clothing. Here is the gallery for the general infantry soldiers while here is a gallery with the vehicle specialists and cavalry units.

A lot of artistic licence has been used with some, I like the weird look of a British army cavalry soldier for some reason wearing a cuirass in the 20th century. The soldiers themselves are pretty much a composite mix of all the types of men who fought in the conflict and more or less just represent generic front line sentries, trench raiders and assault groups of the later part of the conflict rather than a specific regiment.

I'm the black ex-fashion model Kaiserreich cuirassier.

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Trin Tragula
Apr 22, 2005

For anyone wanting to read about snipers in the war, the BEF's chief authority Major Hesketh Hesketh-Prichard (no, really) wrote a book called Sniping in France with far more than you'll ever need to know about how he did his job and developed the technique and theory of sniping. Lieutenant John Bernard Pye Adams (same) also wrote a memoir; he served as his battalion's sniping officer and provides the perspective of someone who had to put the Major's techniques into action. It also has quite a few hand-drawn little sketches and plans in it at relevant points:



(And no, nobody likes snipers much.)

Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jan 25, 2017

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