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Fallen Hamprince posted:'until the Germans invaded France' lmao before the germans invaded france stalin was in talks to join the axis yes, the axis, which was formed with the signing of the anti-comintern pact, was eager for the ussr to join them
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Feb 20, 2017 23:40
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1mpper posted:stalin wasn't "shocked" or "unprepared" for the nazi attack
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Feb 21, 2017 00:14
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did not purge revisionists in this thread
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Feb 21, 2017 00:17
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Typo posted:Yes he was he thought the Nazis wouldn't start a war with the USSR until they finish off the UK first which meant a war in 1943-45 or something he didn't think Hitler would attack him in 1941 because he really did trust him to uphold the molotov-ribbentropp pact for at least couple more years They knew the attack was coming that year, but Stalin thought it'd be in Ukraine while Soviet intelligence told him it was gonna be through Belarus. At least one thing Stalin got wrong.
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Feb 21, 2017 00:20
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:They knew the attack was coming that year, but Stalin thought it'd be in Ukraine while Soviet intelligence told him it was gonna be through Belarus. At least one thing Stalin got wrong. by "they" you mean soviet intelligence and the british who tried to warn stalin that some thing was up but stalin thought it was either 1) "english provocation" or 2) everyone was lying to him for some other reasons. he was fervently in denial about a 1941 war and actively hinder soviet attempts to prepare for it cuz it would have being "provocation". also funnily enough like the night before barbarossa kicked off this german communist guy in the wehrmacht literally ran to the soviets screaming about how his units had marching orders for the next day and stalin was like "obvsly english double agent" and had him shot for trying to trick him. like when german tanks literally started invading he was going "oh maybe it's a rogue general or something no way hitler knows about this!" Typo has issued a correction as of 00:26 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 00:24
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tbf though stalin's assumptions about german plans were actually pretty rational, cuz you had to be pretty insane/stupid to fight russia/england at the same time as germany and if your other assumption is that everyone around you is a secret trot well I guess you don't listen to them either
Typo has issued a correction as of 00:36 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 00:29
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I can't think of anybody who made it more difficult for leftism to thrive in the developed world than Stalin. So gently caress him.
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Feb 21, 2017 01:43
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R. Guyovich posted:yes, the axis, which was formed with the signing of the anti-comintern pact, was eager for the ussr to join them the soviets offered to join the tripartite pact, not the anti-comintern pact
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Feb 21, 2017 02:10
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stalin clearly so deeply concerned about the anti-comintern pact that he signed a non-aggression treaty with its leader that carved up eastern europe into spheres of influence
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Feb 21, 2017 02:11
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he abandoned mainstream agricultural science and plant genetics in favor of pseudoscience
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Feb 21, 2017 02:12
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Feb 21, 2017 02:45
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Socialist Realism was real bad  If you don't look at this every morning when you wake up and every night before you go to sleep then you're the first against the wall.
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Feb 21, 2017 03:14
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Die.
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Feb 21, 2017 03:35
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Rand alPaul posted:
the socialist realist theme of stalin getting flowers from children is p funny because its obviously doing a classic 'subjects as children under paternal care of supreme autocrat' metaphor but in a modern world with virtually no absolute monarchies remaining it just makes him look like a weird grandpa the north koreans still do a similar thing but in those the kims are actually more of a maternal figure
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Feb 21, 2017 03:39
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Fallen Hamprince posted:stalin clearly so deeply concerned about the anti-comintern pact that he signed a non-aggression treaty with its leader that carved up eastern europe into spheres of influence nah
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Feb 21, 2017 04:32
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Majorian posted:I can't think of anybody who made it more difficult for leftism to thrive in the developed world than Stalin. So gently caress him. hm weird, i can think of a lot of people, like actual anti-communists and CIA folks.
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Feb 21, 2017 05:49
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1mpper posted:hm weird, i can think of a lot of people, like actual anti-communists and CIA folks. Nah, Stalin's awfulness gave them the ammunition they needed. e: Indeed, it's likely that the CIA, McCarthy, other anti-communists, etc, wouldn't have had nearly as much traction, had Stalin not been a murderous, imperialist fuckwad.
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Feb 21, 2017 07:20
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Tankies are like alt-right when it comes to crying fake news/history
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Feb 21, 2017 10:24
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Big Fat Iguana posted:On the level of shear mistakes, I think the thing where he ordered his bodyguards to ignore all signs of distress from his apartments and would test them by screaming and fire them if they broke in to save him was a huge mistake. As prove d by the fact that when he had a stroke it took over 12 hours before anyone dared break in to help him.
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Feb 21, 2017 10:38
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Typo posted:by "they" you mean soviet intelligence and the british who tried to warn stalin that some thing was up but stalin thought it was either 1) "english provocation" or 2) everyone was lying to him for some other reasons. he was fervently in denial about a 1941 war and actively hinder soviet attempts to prepare for it cuz it would have being "provocation".
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Feb 21, 2017 10:40
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lamo stalin loving sucks
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Feb 21, 2017 10:41
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not an expert, but pretty sure that is "fake news"
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Feb 21, 2017 11:08
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"that's fake news" i say as i delve back into my nazi propaganda
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Feb 21, 2017 11:41
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Majorian posted:Nah, Stalin's awfulness gave them the ammunition they needed.
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Feb 21, 2017 12:17
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I've always had a pet theory that Lenin was poisoned by Stalin - his illness came on rather fast and at a convenient time. Has his body ever been examined chemically? Would make everything else fit into place
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Feb 21, 2017 12:18
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Yossarian-22 posted:Tankies are like alt-right when it comes to crying fake news/history is being historically materialist the same thing as crying "fake news" now
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Feb 21, 2017 14:25
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rudatron posted:I've always had a pet theory that Lenin was poisoned by Stalin - his illness came on rather fast and at a convenient time. Has his body ever been examined chemically? Would make everything else fit into place nah lenin took a bullet to the neck in 1918 and worked himself to death you didn't need to poison him
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Feb 21, 2017 17:30
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cargo cult posted:lmfao also at one point stalin was like hmmmm why are the germans deploying so many units in poland and stuff if they say they want to fight the UK? so he wrote to Hitler and hitler was like "it's to keep them out of the range of british bombers" and stalin was like "oh ok that seems reasonable" and went back to torturing his own generals.
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Feb 21, 2017 17:37
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His fatal flaw was saying Isn't Anything is better than Loveless and for that I wish he were alive so that I might flame him online.
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Feb 21, 2017 17:45
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rudatron posted:Maybe, but the rhetoric lasted well past Stalin though It did, and I don't mean any of that to minimize the responsibility of grotesque, cynical fucks like McCarthy or Nixon or Hoover. Just that poo poo like the Great Purge, the Holodomor, etc, gave people like that enough ammo to keep beating on the anti-Communist drum long after Stalin's death. Typo posted:nah lenin took a bullet to the neck in 1918 and worked himself to death you didn't need to poison him  Alternatively, I like The Onion's take on it.
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Feb 21, 2017 20:04
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Typo posted:also funnily enough like the night before barbarossa kicked off this german communist guy in the wehrmacht literally ran to the soviets screaming about how his units had marching orders for the next day and stalin was like "obvsly english double agent" and had him shot for trying to trick him. like when german tanks literally started invading he was going "oh maybe it's a rogue general or something no way hitler knows about this!" lol thats a cool story from cia-pedia but also not true. post a credible source specifically about that, i dare you. the famous deserter that is obviously referencing though is named Alfred Liskow, and his warning was actually taken more seriously than normal intelligence reports and the kremlin order formulated from his testimony ended up saving the lives of air force personnel stationed on the border. he fell out with the comintern a year later for other reasons and it's unclear what happened to him, but stalin definitely didn't have him shot immediately "for trying to trick him". but this is a good example of how lies about the soviet union get propagated as fact on the basis of unsubstantiated rumor and ridiculous claims, like there's a load of pop-history books that mention he was "immediately shot on stalin's orders" despite that it is demonstrably false. 1mpper has issued a correction as of 03:42 on Feb 22, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 03:22
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1mpper posted:lol thats a cool story from cia-pedia is this a real post?
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Feb 22, 2017 03:44
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R. Guyovich posted:is being historically materialist the same thing as crying "fake news" now i don't understand that but yes
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Feb 22, 2017 04:04
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edit: yes of course they did
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Feb 22, 2017 04:09
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Feb 22, 2017 08:37
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everyone is revisionist
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Feb 22, 2017 13:48
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everyone is revisionist
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Feb 22, 2017 13:54
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i just wnat the bunkers
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Feb 22, 2017 13:55
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Just finished reading Volume I of Kotkin's biography of Stalin. Pretty good at putting Stalin in the context of Eurasia during the late 19th and early 20th century. It's repetitive and glazes over some very interesting events. I liked the first half a lot because it's basically "Then Stalin was sent to siberia, then stalin was sent into internal exile, then stalin's wife died, then stalin was sent to jail".
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Feb 22, 2017 14:21
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stalin didnt take the iron pill
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Feb 22, 2017 14:25
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