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extreme_accordion
Apr 9, 2009
Thought I'd have time for this one - sadly I don't. Get to watch from the sidelines.

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slothrop
Dec 7, 2006

Santa Alpha, Fox One... Gifts Incoming ~~~>===|>

Soiled Meat
My most recent email had testing times attached but no scrutineers report. Does this mean I passed (I doubt it)

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

slothrop posted:

My most recent email had testing times attached but no scrutineers report. Does this mean I passed (I doubt it)

That's because I forgot to attach them! Not only that but I am away from my computer till tomorrow evening, so I can't send them until then.

(Your Group B passed while the A did not - safety rating was too low).

slothrop
Dec 7, 2006

Santa Alpha, Fox One... Gifts Incoming ~~~>===|>

Soiled Meat

MrChips posted:

That's because I forgot to attach them! Not only that but I am away from my computer till tomorrow evening, so I can't send them until then.

(Your Group B passed while the A did not - safety rating was too low).

Cool, that's given me a chance to revist and change a few things, hopefully a little more competitive now. What's the rounding error on production units? I can get my group A reading 90.0 but the final report has it at 90.01 :rolleyes:

I found a big reason I was having problems with scrutineering is that when I would hake changes to my group A or B body they were being applied to both, hence throwing out the delicate balance on the car I wasn't modifying.

I've also found no matter how much I think I've got the most out of my engine in terms of fuel burn, there's a bunch more there. Hoping my latest revisons are a bit faster.

In saying that, drat Mr Chips, a 2:10 in a group A car. That is some wizardry.

slothrop fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Jan 27, 2017

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

slothrop posted:

Cool, that's given me a chance to revist and change a few things, hopefully a little more competitive now. What's the rounding error on production units? I can get my group A reading 90.0 but the final report has it at 90.01 :rolleyes:

I found a big reason I was having problems with scrutineering is that when I would hake changes to my group A or B body they were being applied to both, hence throwing out the delicate balance on the car I wasn't modifying.

I've also found no matter how much I think I've got the most out of my engine in terms of fuel burn, there's a bunch more there. Hoping my latest revisons are a bit faster.

In saying that, drat Mr Chips, a 2:10 in a group A car. That is some wizardry.

The simulation model imports the LUA files directly and reads them, hence why you see some values that are a little more precise than what you see in-game. I will change the model's precision to reflect what you see in the game - I mean, if the game says you have 90.0 production units and the model dings you at 90.01, that's kind of unfair.

I don't know if I would call it wizardry; the big thing is that I chased specific fuel consumption at all cost in my entry, which in turn allows me to run more horsepower. There isn't much to it, to be honest:

  • High compression and high cam settings aren't necessarily beneficial. I don't have the numbers on-hand, but I think my compression ratio in my Group A is barely over 10:1. Anything more than 10.5-11:1 is can be more harmful than good in my experience. 1989 is in an era, after all, when the technology to take advantage of very high compression ratios just didn't exist.
  • In my initial state of tune, I set the fuel ratio to the minimum value (15.0:1) and adjust other parameters from there - it is the very last thing on my list of "things to tweak to get more power".
  • There is a range of bores and strokes for a given engine size that are optimum; highly oversquare engines (big bore, short stroke) tend to have big problems with valve float (where the valves turn orange/red in the engine status page), which can be covered up somewhat by big cam settings, but that comes with its own problems. Undersquare engines (small bore, big stroke) tend to have issues with bottom end parts breaking down. Both over and undersquare engines have advantages, though, so play around with them to see what works best.
  • Allocating your Quality Points carefully is key; some categories get expensive really fast (bottom and top end), but can also provide you with the biggest gains in reliability and power. Having too many QPs in one of these sections ends up being a very inefficient use of your overall production unit allocation, so don't just go "+7 straight across all categories" or whatever - you'll be wasting a lot of production units unnecessarily in some categories, and leaving others without the improvements they could otherwise afford.

MrChips fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jan 27, 2017

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

I'm sorry to say I've had a bit of a delay with the results of our first weather test; they will be up and out first thing tomorrow morning (for me at least). I ran into a couple of really dumb problems with the model that I have since fixed. One of which could be summed up as such:

Lap 105
:eng101:: Hey, the weather's looking bad, call in the cars to change to inters!
:drum:: *puts slick tires on*


Lap 106
:eng101:: Hey, the weather's looking bad, call in the cars to change to inters!
:drum:: *puts slick tires on*

And so on...and so on...

Needless to say, we fired those paste-eaters and hired some pit crews that didn't spend their time using the impact wrenches on each other's nutsacks.

slothrop
Dec 7, 2006

Santa Alpha, Fox One... Gifts Incoming ~~~>===|>

Soiled Meat
Having so much fun with this challenge, thanks again for putting it together!

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Alright, results are in for the first weather test:



I am going to be making a few tweaks to the weather system, since it hasn't ramped up the difficulty enough.

Meanwhile, in other news:

SASC Test Diary - Where is CMW's Prototype?

As the first week of testing for the upcoming 1989 sportscar season draws to a close, the teams and press alike couldn't help but notice the absence of CMW's much-vaunted prototype entry for the SASC-89 Championship. CMW Motorsport boss MrChips has deftly avoided questions on the subject since the first test session, saying "the engineering team is working around the clock to bring our brand's signature performance to all of our motorsport projects", but internal sources reveal signs of a troubled development for the prototype.

"With the economic downturn, (CMW) motorsport and the board of directors locked horns repeatedly last year over the budget for the 1989 racing season," our inside source reports, "they also openly questioned the marketing value of the prototype program in particular, especially considering it was originally to be powered by a motor that bore no resemblance to anything in series production."

Another source in the team's powertrain team confirms this story; "we had designed an all-new, turbocharged inline-six motor, displacing roughly five litres and producing far in excess of nine hundred horsepower. This configuration ran once on the company's private test track with highly favourable results, but around the time of the first test, the board of directors came down hard on the motorsport division's spending in the face of decreasing sales worldwide and the cost of launching the new 990 sports car, replacing the 976 later this year. As such, we embarked on a crash program develop a further version of the B52 motor, already in use both in production models of the 976 as well as in the 976 Group A and C racecars."

Unfortunately, it seems as though development of this ultimate version of CMW's so-called "Ratte" motor has been fraught with problems; it is rumoured to be down on power from the inline-six, while also struggling with reliability issues as well. Our source continues; "There is only so much we can do with four litres of displacement; we are currently five percent above our target fuel burn, and to make matters worse, the models show we are about half a percent slower around the track than we want to be, and more around faster tracks like Hockenheim and Le Mans. The chassis team has done an incredible job tuning the CRT-89 already, shaving almost a full percent off the lap times so far, but this last half a percent is going to be like squeezing blood from a stone.". In spite of the difficulties encountered, CMW is likely to bring their prototype to next week's testing, but the road ahead for them is long and challenging indeed.

MrChips fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jan 28, 2017

Triple A
Jul 14, 2010

Your sword, sahib.
"While our pace at the track hasn't been perfect, at least our homologation specials are way closer to their civilian counterparts than our opposition."

- O. Vanhanen, head of LATOY motorsports division.

Triple A fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Jan 29, 2017

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

OK, so I've sent all the participants their passcodes for the pit stop strategy tool.

This tool allows you to change what temperature (from soft compound to hard compound), and moisture levels your car will switch tire types (from slick to intermediate to full wet). Also, it will let you choose your fuel reserve level where the car will come into the pits to refuel.

As for the weather forecast for the second weather test, well, it's going to be a lovely hot day:



fake edit: I should also mention that these tests start at noon, so it will be reaching the hottest part of the day by the end of the two hours.

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Test 3 is complete:



Just a reminder to anyone who is thinking of entering the challenge (and everyone is welcome!), the deadline for new entries is February 9th!

Triple A
Jul 14, 2010

Your sword, sahib.
Don't worry about being the fastest, just focus on experimenting with interesting builds. That way, you'll probably enjoy this more.

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

And I will reiterate, my offer to help anyone make their car go faster is still open for anyone willing to take me up on it.

And I have to say that so far I am pretty pleased by the diversity of entries so far; one of them in particular has an engine that even makes me go :stare:

Kilonum
Sep 30, 2002

You know where you are? You're in the suburbs, baby. You're gonna drive.

I'm probably going to do complete rebuilds of my B and C cars, A's engine is a dumpster fire

extreme_accordion
Apr 9, 2009
Really just want to make an 'exhibition' category car. 1950s coupe body (the jag/mg looking thing) but with Group C stats. :toot: Aero be damned ala Morgan not really changing their overall since the 'teens.

Triple A
Jul 14, 2010

Your sword, sahib.

extreme_accordion posted:

Really just want to make an 'exhibition' category car. 1950s coupe body (the jag/mg looking thing) but with Group C stats. :toot: Aero be damned ala Morgan not really changing their overall since the 'teens.

So, you want to build a hot-rodded Miata coupe? :v:

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

extreme_accordion posted:

Really just want to make an 'exhibition' category car. 1950s coupe body (the jag/mg looking thing) but with Group C stats. :toot: Aero be damned ala Morgan not really changing their overall since the 'teens.

Hmm, I will grant you a "waiver", so to speak, from the body age restriction if you're willing!

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

OK, Test 4 is complete, and things got a little rough out there:



It appears as though there was a bit of a coming-together between the #9 V12 Fiasco and the #6 CRT-NEMW entries. Both cars were able to rejoin the test, but not after lengthy repairs in the pits.

And on the administrative side, I have decided to stop firing out incessant emails with testing results; instead, I have created a Dropbox folder for each of you, with all your reports in there instead! Let me know if this works better for you guys because holy poo poo it does make things faster for me.

MrChips fucked around with this message at 04:37 on Feb 2, 2017

extreme_accordion
Apr 9, 2009

MrChips posted:

Hmm, I will grant you a "waiver", so to speak, from the body age restriction if you're willing!

Some 4 hours later I have a car that doesn't enrage me because it's slow or doesn't fit the formula (from what I can tell).

The Victorian Hooray's Racing team is back in action.

slothrop
Dec 7, 2006

Santa Alpha, Fox One... Gifts Incoming ~~~>===|>

Soiled Meat
Dropbox is a great idea. Does it help if we upload our car files there too?

I've been muddling with my engine to try cut down on pit stops, have managed to get fuel burn down and power up, however the cars economy rating suffers. Is economy modelled as part of the race or is it simply fuel burn? I guess I can use my "mod" motor for the next round of testing and see how it goes.

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

slothrop posted:

Dropbox is a great idea. Does it help if we upload our car files there too?

I've been muddling with my engine to try cut down on pit stops, have managed to get fuel burn down and power up, however the cars economy rating suffers. Is economy modelled as part of the race or is it simply fuel burn? I guess I can use my "mod" motor for the next round of testing and see how it goes.

Fuel economy is modelled in the simulation, but the fuel burn that we are using in scrutineering has a direct connection to that figure. The model uses your engine's specific fuel consumption, the shape of your power curve and your gearing, along with the track parameters, to calculate actual fuel burn. I don't know if you've done it already but if you figure out from the tests how long your car was on track and how much fuel it burned in total, my guess is that it will be something in the neighbourhood of 15 percent (plus or minus a couple percent) less than the fuel burn calculator tells you.

This is intentional, as the simulation models roughly how long and how often each car is accelerating and how long/often it isn't. Almost all the tracks will give an actual fuel burn that is less than the calculator value, while one track, Hockenheim, will be a percent or two higher at most. Don't fret about that though, as everyone will be in that boat - the calculator is just there to provide a standard to be judged by.

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Weather Test 2 is now complete, under the hot, sweltering sun:



All the newest testing reports have been sent to your Dropbox folders.

Also, revised entries can now be uploaded to your folder as well; I still need new players to email me so I can set everything up for you.

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Test 5 is now complete, results uploaded to your folders.



Also, here are the weather forecasts to take us right to the beginning of the racing season:



And just a reminder that there is still time to enter the challenge, for those of you still on the fence!

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!


Just to check, the minimum weight excludes fuel, right? Because I'm going to have to find ballast...

Also does your simulation put cars round the test track faster than the game, generally? I'm slow compared to the test times posted by a fair margin.

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

simplefish posted:

Just to check, the minimum weight excludes fuel, right? Because I'm going to have to find ballast...

Also does your simulation put cars round the test track faster than the game, generally? I'm slow compared to the test times posted by a fair margin.

Minimum weight excludes fuel, and the cars go a little faster around the track than their in-game time, but it's usually not much more than a couple of tenths on the Automation test track.

Triple A
Jul 14, 2010

Your sword, sahib.
Even if your car's slower, it can still win by needing to stop less / being more reliable than everyone else.

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!


Okay, my car is complete. I'll email it in the next 24 hours

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

Triple A posted:

Even if your car's slower, it can still win by needing to stop less / being more reliable than everyone else.

Well to a degree this is true, but having smashed my head against the wall for the better part of a week doing exactly that, the best way to go faster is still more power.

On this topic, I might as well let the cat out of the bag with regard to my prototype entry; it was extremely troublesome because I set myself the goal of a) using a common engine family with my Group A and C cars, and b) with that engine not being able to make the power I desired with any reasonable reliability. As such, I was forced to chase fuel economy and handling instead, where the gains are very, very small indeed. By my calculation, each 10 kg/h decrease in fuel consumption is equivalent to going a tenth of a second faster on the Automation test track for a prototype-class car - not a particularly big savings, but if your hands are tied like mine were, you don't have a choice.


In any case, my prototype burns 20 percent less fuel than the class limit (about 160 kg/h versus the limit of 200 kg/h) and had to have a LOT of compromises in the handling and pit strategies to make it go as fast as it is - I don't expect to do all that well at Le Mans because my top speed is on the low side, as an example.

MrChips fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Feb 8, 2017

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!




Company History:

You've heard of FIAT - Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino - but a contemporary you may not have heard of is FISH: Fabbrica Internacional Shitpili Horrificos

quote:

Most car manufacturers have their beginnings in tractors, bicycles, or the mind of a particularly gifted mechanic. Not so FISH.

FISH's story begins in the war-ravaged ruins of post-WWII Europe. The origins of FISH are sketchy at best, and their history only convolutes matters. Formed in Spain - and somehow Italy - on the same afternoon in 1946, and perplexingly in France the following morning, each copy of the archived founding documentation has several differences to the others - and none of them reflecting what the company insists is true today. Not only the beginnings, but also the unlikely continued existence of the company despite their lack of sales (and sometimes, lack of a model to sell) have led to rumours of external parites artificially propping-up FISH - and also several dead-end Interpol investigations.

It has been speculated variously over the years that FISH was a money-laundering apparatus for the Sicilian Mafia; mis-appropriated war re-building funds meant to reconstuct Blitz'd French cities; Dictator General Franco's first attempt at a national car industry, with SEAT a (resultingly much-needed) backup plan in case of its failure; a false flag European manufacturer deliberately designed to be difficult to manage with cross-border politics, pointless subsidies and poor styling - founded by Ford and GM to make them look better against the growing Euro competition; an attempt by Portugal to develop military vehicles, pre-Bravia, so that they wouldn't have to pay France for Panhards in the colonial wars; and most recently as a failed secret R&D farm for design budget-restricted series (or tax purposes, it is Italy after all) by Lamborghini or Ferrari - each, naturaly, accuses the other.

But whatever its history, the opaque management and pay structure have, once again, resulted in engineers being funded and tasked to design - and indeed they produced - a small car. Perhaps there was an influx of money to launder. Perhaps the new managing director's son, Enri Fieri, was feeling bored. Whatever the case, this year, FISH are going racing.

Car emailed but not approved

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

ATT Test 6 is complete, with all revised entries running in it:



I have also decided to extend the deadline for entries by a full day now; anyone on the fence can enter until Friday now!

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!


Something's up with the fuel burn calculator, and that's probably me using it incorrectly.

I put in the SFC from the screen and the horsepower and it says I should pass, but I failed scrutineering. Am I using the wrong values?

e: I used the value from the left side of the screen, not the graph. I think that should be correct now

I've updated the car, butI haven't done the suspension yet. Is that something I can change in testing easily? I am kind of pushed for time tonight

simplefish fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Feb 10, 2017

Triple A
Jul 14, 2010

Your sword, sahib.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0RdQBdO1gU

New dev update, contains some things about their move to the new game engine.

extreme_accordion
Apr 9, 2009
I got a 1:58 but not enough reliability. Group C - Don't forget you can dump your sliders to -15 for body, interior, and safety (min 30) to cut weight.

slothrop
Dec 7, 2006

Santa Alpha, Fox One... Gifts Incoming ~~~>===|>

Soiled Meat

simplefish posted:



Company History:

You've heard of FIAT - Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino - but a contemporary you may not have heard of is FISH: Fabbrica Internacional Shitpili Horrificos


Car emailed but not approved

That is the most Pynchon-esque thing I've read in ages. I should start driving for your team. Model A4 :godwin:

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

simplefish posted:

I've updated the car, butI haven't done the suspension yet. Is that something I can change in testing easily? I am kind of pushed for time tonight

Suspension, brakes, aero and drivetrain tuning can get a fair bit of speed, but it can be pretty small gains, especially in your car which seems to be pretty well-tuned as it is.

I should also say that while the entry deadline is now closed, everyone who is still in has a week to get their first revisions into me before they would fall under the revision point system.

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

OK, the first mock race is now in the books:



The weather started off cool and overcast, but the rain held off through the fifth hour, when the clouds parted and the sun made an appearance.

The level of carnage is about what I was hoping, and I'm kind of surprised we haven't had a true engine failure just yet - just sporadic mechanical breakdowns. Either way, things are shaping up to be interesting!

simplefish
Mar 28, 2011

So long, and thanks for all the fish gallbladdΣrs!


Was there a mock race report that we should hace received or did I not get one because my car was illegal?

Also after this mock race I emailed you a (hopefully!) legal version of the FISH car, did you receive it?

extreme_accordion
Apr 9, 2009

Triple A posted:

So, you want to build a hot-rodded Miata coupe? :v:

Sorta like the FastMiata Habu but more along the lines of Lister Jag Coupes ... and then nothing at all like either since 6L V12 nearing 700hp.

Triple A
Jul 14, 2010

Your sword, sahib.

extreme_accordion posted:

Sorta like the FastMiata Habu but more along the lines of Lister Jag Coupes ... and then nothing at all like either since 6L V12 nearing 700hp.

So, a group C equivalent to my group B effort.

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MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

simplefish posted:

Was there a mock race report that we should hace received or did I not get one because my car was illegal?

Also after this mock race I emailed you a (hopefully!) legal version of the FISH car, did you receive it?

Yes, my apologies - the real world required my attention for a couple of days.

There are no reports from this mock race (or the next one either) - these are more to give everyone a chance to check how their pit strategies are working (and also give me a chance to do a final shakedown on the model before things get going).

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