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Pedro De Heredia
May 30, 2006

Bust Rodd posted:

His dad was poisoned, almost certainly by the EIC

The father is not a character in the show. We don't see him. We don't know his story. He does not meaningfully 'exist' for the audience. All we know about him are a few anecdotes here and there. The problem with this is that the anecdotes suggest that his relationship with Delaney was not straightforward and unambiguous. This means we cannot simply take it as a given that this is motivation enough.

Saying complaints about this show are from people who want 'robot orgies' and 'machine guns' and then listing the positives of the show as 'ghosts' and 'cannibals' is completely ridiculous too.

Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Jan 23, 2017

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sector_corrector
Jan 18, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo

Escobarbarian posted:

Well, its concept vs execution, right? While I agree that laying out everything in the show makes it SOUND really engaging, I don't feel the storylines are progressing in any kind of interesting way yet. Scenes are mostly 1. the company scheming and bitching about Delaney in an office 2. Delaney scheming and bitching about the company somewhere near a river and 3. bizarre voodoo stuff that is intriguing but doesn't yet have enough context to make for truly effective scenes. Compare it to Peaky Blinders by the same writer. Just as smart but far more interesting and exciting with characters you care about immediately.

It's also a little confusing to me that I'm seeing so many here and on places like AV Club acting like this show is insanely smart and deep compared to everything else on television. I'm not saying it's stupid, but it really doesn't seem to have much more to say than most dramas of its kind, and the thematic depth doesn't seem to be.....well, that deep, I suppose. Mostly it seems to be getting by on mood, acting and visuals rather than specifically extremely intelligent storytelling. What exactly do you think makes it "a show for people who read?" compared to others? Westworld being the example you gave especially, like arguably that has more to say about consciousness and whatnot than this has to say about.....that the East India Company were bad.



(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer
^^^^ what's great about this troll attempt is it involves the troll being dim enough to assume my avatar is totally genuine and based on love and fandom

Rocksicles posted:

You're comparing apple and oranges, wardrobe notwithstanding.

I'm just responding to what people have been saying. I've seen the "taboo is WAY more intelligent than STUPID WESTWORLD" quote way too much already.

Pedro De Heredia posted:

Saying complaints about this show are from people who want 'robot orgies' and 'machine guns' and then listing the positives of the show as 'ghosts' and 'cannibals' is completely ridiculous too.

hahahahaha

sector_corrector
Jan 18, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo

Escobarbarian posted:

^^^^ what's great about this troll attempt is it involves the troll being dim enough to assume my avatar is totally genuine and based on love and fandom


I'm just responding to what people have been saying. I've seen the "taboo is WAY more intelligent than STUPID WESTWORLD" quote way too much already.


hahahahaha

Hakkesshu
Nov 4, 2009


Please leave

dangerdoom volvo
Nov 5, 2009
This show is better than westworld, a show with too much loving

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013

Escobarbarian posted:

Westworld being the example you gave especially, like arguably that has more to say about consciousness and whatnot than this has to say about.....that the East India Company were bad.

I dunno, I think it's clearly got quite a lot to say about colonisation, imperialism and the idea of social norms (the show is called 'Taboo', after all). The main character spent a lot of time in Africa, living among the indigenous people, and he's come back acculturated against the typical standards and expectations of the "civilised" world. He's rude, canabalistic, openly shamanistic, shuns ideas of patriotism and proper behaviour (and likely grunts all the time because he likely hasn't spoken English in near a decade, and it's also why he spends a great deal of time nearly nude). Simultaneously, he seems to have a great deal of respect for independent women and for queer people, or at least doesn't condemn them on that basis. So ultimately the entire thing is a tract on cultural relativism, and a criticism of the way an enlightened societies only offers a narrow spectrum of appropriate thought and behaviour.

Incidentally, I'd argue that Westworld had a lot of topic sentences on the idea of consciousness but ultimately it didn't really come together to say anything, particularly anything consistent. It was a load of thesis statements looking for an editor, backed up by some dodgy characterisation and narrative choices. (Something I'd be keen to continue discussing in the Westworld thread, if anyone's game? I'd honestly love to be persuaded otherwise.)

CornHolio
May 20, 2001

Toilet Rascal
Been watching this, didn't even know about the ghosts. I don't know if it's good or not, I just know it absolutely wouldn't work with anybody but Tom Hardy.

GRUNT GRUNT *IS MYSTERIOUS* GRUNT

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌
I'm pretty hooked to this show already and the plot is intriguing. Tom Hardy's character works. I just wish he wasn't dressed in all black and a top hat constantly.

Smashurbanipal
Sep 12, 2009
ASK ME ABOUT BEING A SHITTY POSTER
He's not, quite often he takes all his clothes off!

ghouldaddy07
Jun 23, 2008
This show could not be more up my street. I'm shocked at some of the critisism. Patiently awaiting the return of top hats to make fashion.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
If you don't think the conversation between James and Silva's husband in Ep. 3 isn't loving electric television I don't know what to say.

I've been thinking about what this shows themes are and I think the strongest one is Secrets! Everyone is hiding things from everyone, James can't trust anyone but Breiss and even then he accuses him of knowing more than he's saying.

The American spy is pretty cool.

EDIT: Actually, I also really liked the scene with the King's Administrator and the EIC chairman, because it took two characters who have been sort of established to the viewers through their relationships to their peers, as a servant and a feirsome chairman of the EIC, but in this scene their dynamics shift, and this steward is not this super confident badass because he knows he basically runs England, and the EiC guy is coming off a little desperate despite arguably being the most powerful man in the world, at that time.

Bust Rodd fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Jan 25, 2017

sector_corrector
Jan 18, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo
Is there anyone keeping track of the ghosts online? I didn't see one in 3, but also didn't catch the others until they were pointed out to me.

BexGu
Jan 9, 2004

This fucking day....

Bust Rodd posted:

EDIT: Actually, I also really liked the scene with the King's Administrator and the EIC chairman, because it took two characters who have been sort of established to the viewers through their relationships to their peers, as a servant and a feirsome chairman of the EIC, but in this scene their dynamics shift, and this steward is not this super confident badass because he knows he basically runs England, and the EiC guy is coming off a little desperate despite arguably being the most powerful man in the world, at that time.

We need a history major in this thread to help flush out some of the unspoken backstory. Why was the Prince Regent mad at the East India Trading Company about India? What happened? That the crown was not in control/getting their cut?

Party Plane Jones
Jul 1, 2007

by Reene
Fun Shoe
By 1814 the EIC had conquered all of India (except for the parts that would later be Pakistan) as well as part of Nepal. The 1813 charter in reality had the crown assert sovereignty over India as well as removing all the monopolies for the EIC except in tea and with China.

My guess is in Taboo's timeline that charter didn't take place since they're still dealing with Nootka sound.

Party Plane Jones fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jan 27, 2017

BexGu
Jan 9, 2004

This fucking day....

Party Plane Jones posted:

By 1814 the EIC had conquered all of India (except for the parts that would later be Pakistan) as well as part of Nepal. The 1813 charter in reality had the crown assert sovereignty over India as well as removing all the monopolies for the EIC except in tea and with China.

My guess is in Taboo's timeline that charter didn't take place since they're still dealing with Nootka sound.

Hmmm, maybe not through. If EIC only has a monopoly on Tea and China that would make Delaney demands for his own monopoly even more of a blow to the EIC.

Vorenus
Jul 14, 2013
Another ghost I don't think anyone mentioned yet: Episode 3 (I think) when he goes to visit his mother's grave, look at the carriage that goes past right at the beginning of the scene.

I have no complaints so far. I understand the criticism somewhat, but I'm fairly well enjoying it.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

by VideoGames
I don't think I would have ever noticed these ghosts in a hundred rewatches. I just cannot tear my eyes off Tom Hardy. I'm having ' Magic Mike ' flashbacks where I'm just so enraptured by this beefcake (I'm super into tattoos and mysticism) and I keep stopping and being like "maybe I should take a break and watch some porn or something before I totally forget that I'm straight and start stalking this guy."

I never stalked Channing Tatum, though, I'm sure he's nice in person but not as tall as I'd like so pffffft

3 Action Economist
May 22, 2002

Educate. Agitate. Liberate.

Vorenus posted:

Another ghost I don't think anyone mentioned yet: Episode 3 (I think) when he goes to visit his mother's grave, look at the carriage that goes past right at the beginning of the scene.

I have no complaints so far. I understand the criticism somewhat, but I'm fairly well enjoying it.

I thought I was in the Star Wars Rebels thread and was really confused.

Biaga
Oct 27, 2009

Vorenus posted:

Another ghost I don't think anyone mentioned yet: Episode 3 (I think) when he goes to visit his mother's grave, look at the carriage that goes past right at the beginning of the scene.

I have no complaints so far. I understand the criticism somewhat, but I'm fairly well enjoying it.

Good Eye!

I was in Cuba for the last 8 days so I watched both episodes (3 and 4) last night after I got home. Saw no ghosts but am loving the show more and more.

The American Spies are great, but I am also liking this hidden spy vs spy plot. How they all believe they know everything and how James is playing them against each other.

Also, the fact that the silly good guy from Pirates of the Carribean plays the bad guy in this show, and the bad guy in Pirates of the Carribean plays the silly good guy in this show is an added bonus.

I assume the duel challenge will not be accepted or will be interrupted (I am guessing the laughing gas might be an excuse to withdraw the challenge).

Spuckuk
Aug 11, 2009

Being a bastard works



Bust Rodd posted:

I don't think I would have ever noticed these ghosts in a hundred rewatches. I just cannot tear my eyes off Tom Hardy. I'm having ' Magic Mike ' flashbacks where I'm just so enraptured by this beefcake (I'm super into tattoos and mysticism) and I keep stopping and being like "maybe I should take a break and watch some porn or something before I totally forget that I'm straight and start stalking this guy."

I never stalked Channing Tatum, though, I'm sure he's nice in person but not as tall as I'd like so pffffft

Bad news, Tom Hardy is 5'9"

Ithle01
May 28, 2013

BexGu posted:

We need a history major in this thread to help flush out some of the unspoken backstory. Why was the Prince Regent mad at the East India Trading Company about India? What happened? That the crown was not in control/getting their cut?

I'm not a history major, but the power of the EIC is a bit overstated when compared to the English Crown (and just in general) and in around fifteen years they'll be more or less nationalized for lack of a better term to use. The crown was constantly pissed off at the EIC because EIC would start fights and then beg the crown to send soldiers to take care of their mess to the point that the English government told the EIC that they had to start paying for the wars they start and also they had to pay to keep twenty thousand or so soldiers on retainer. Let's just say that the profits from conquest were not equally distributed, on top of that there's a lot of agitation for free trade which is very attractive from a taxation perspective.

However, one thing the show kind of misses is that there's something a lot more important going on in Europe in 1814 that's occupying the Crown's attention. It's weird that people would be talking of the EIC as a behemoth and the threat the United States poses when you have Napoleon-motherfucking-Bonaparte at the tail end of stomping across Europe even though they're past the point where his illusion of invincibility has been shattered.

Party Plane Jones
Jul 1, 2007

by Reene
Fun Shoe

Bust Rodd posted:

I don't think I would have ever noticed these ghosts in a hundred rewatches. I just cannot tear my eyes off Tom Hardy. I'm having ' Magic Mike ' flashbacks where I'm just so enraptured by this beefcake (I'm super into tattoos and mysticism) and I keep stopping and being like "maybe I should take a break and watch some porn or something before I totally forget that I'm straight and start stalking this guy."

I never stalked Channing Tatum, though, I'm sure he's nice in person but not as tall as I'd like so pffffft

You should look up Hardy's myspace page pictures in that case, it's all hilarity.

Chubby Henparty
Aug 13, 2007


How the hell do you walk off a bump on the head like that, let alone have the grace to artfully disembowel your attacker

Biaga
Oct 27, 2009

Chop Sunni posted:

How the hell do you walk off a bump on the head like that, let alone have the grace to artfully disembowel your attacker

Be a crazy murdering cannibal, hell bent on revenge and fueled by alcohol-hatred-and voodoo.

Ms Boods
Mar 19, 2009

Did you ever wonder where the Romans got bread from? It wasn't from Waitrose!
And then in Episode 4 Regency-era SuperHans shows up in the form of Tom Holland.

If you want to see Tom Hardy as a romantic lead, he grunts and stares his way through The Virgin Queen as Robert Dudley.

No clue what's going on in Taboo but it could run for another 75 episodes along its current trajectory, and I'd be a happy camper. Also, as Mr Boods points out, it's not a top hat, but more something you'd see atop a very old Welsh granny.

Cool for pointing out all of the ghosties myself am convinced that Tom Hardy is also a ghostie. Either that or he's got a very hard head and twice as much blood as everyone else, the way he keeps getting mortally wounded and bouncing back

Kin
Nov 4, 2003

Sometimes, in a city this dirty, you need a real hero.
So, anyone spot a ghost in episode 4? I didn't spot poo poo. Though i missed them in the first 3 episodes too so i guess they're too subtle for me.

Qmass
Jun 3, 2003

I don't understand why this show isn't getting more attention, its loving great TV.

Jehde
Apr 21, 2010

It's great but it's a bit of a slow burn, not for everyone. Basically there's not enough boobs and fighting for the masses.

Spermanent Record
Mar 28, 2007
I interviewed a NK escapee who came to my school and made a thread. Then life got in the way and the translation had to be postponed. I did finish it in the end, but nobody is going to pay 10 bux to update my.avatar
I'm really enjoying this show but drat, I need to go read a book on 19th Century history because my history teacher decided to spend half a year watching JFK conspiracy videos instead of teaching us about our own loving country.

Plucky Brit
Nov 7, 2009

Swing low, sweet chariot

Spermanent Record posted:

I'm really enjoying this show but drat, I need to go read a book on 19th Century history because my history teacher decided to spend half a year watching JFK conspiracy videos instead of teaching us about our own loving country.

Everyone knows history stopped after Waterloo and started again about six months before WWI.

Biaga
Oct 27, 2009

Kin posted:

So, anyone spot a ghost in episode 4? I didn't spot poo poo. Though i missed them in the first 3 episodes too so i guess they're too subtle for me.

You and me both, I am planning on rewatching them again within the next day or so, and someone earlier mentioned that there might be a ghost in the early part of episode 3 when he is in the graveyard but I didn't catch anything on my first viewing. Part of me is also concerned by the safety of assuming there is a ghost in each episode, watch them not put one in one episode and not tell people solely to annoy people.

lifts cats over head
Jan 17, 2003

Antagonist: A bad man who drops things from the windows.
I don't think there's a ghost in each episode. While it would be fun to spot them in each episode they'd quickly become a gimmick which I think would diminish the show.

Biaga
Oct 27, 2009

Vorenus posted:

Another ghost I don't think anyone mentioned yet: Episode 3 (I think) when he goes to visit his mother's grave, look at the carriage that goes past right at the beginning of the scene.

I have no complaints so far. I understand the criticism somewhat, but I'm fairly well enjoying it.

checked it out again, don't think the crazy person in the back of the carriage counts.

Ramrod Hotshot
May 30, 2003

Really liked the pilot, but it's been a bit of a slog since then. They really could cut each episode a little bit...with commercials, they're nearly an hour and a half long. Also, do we really need incest? Yeah, I guess it's kind of implicit in the name of the show, but it feels a little ripped off from Game of Thrones (as are many of the actors...we've got Rob Stark's wife, the High Sparrow, and at least one other I noticed). Still, as a history buff and Tom Hardy fan I'm compelled to keep watching.

spaceships
Aug 4, 2005

i love too dumptruck

guacamole aficionado
i honestly don't understand the complaints goons have, this is riveting television. they could run 26 episodes w/o answering a god dang question in this vein and i'd be incredibly happy.

brocked
Oct 25, 2005

All shall love me and despair!
Yeah, I would've thought 3 sex scenes, 1 implied rape, another threatened rape, 1 near evisceration, planning and execution of a heist, some 19th century chemistry lessons, a full on Bacchanalia, and a duel challenge would be a lot for one episode but people still keep insisting it's a slow burn and nothing's happening :shrug:

spaceships
Aug 4, 2005

i love too dumptruck

guacamole aficionado
episode four moved fuckin fast, so much cool poo poo happened in that episode

e: i am still stoked about all the white assholes calling delaney a friend of the family. i can completely relate to the fact that even though he looks like (the majority) of his countrymen he's still just a friend of the family to them. the treatment of delaney in general is something i find incredibly interesting and i hope they can stay the course.

spaceships fucked around with this message at 13:51 on Feb 2, 2017

Zythrst
May 31, 2011

Time to join a revolution son, its going to be yooge!

Ithle01 posted:


However, one thing the show kind of misses is that there's something a lot more important going on in Europe in 1814 that's occupying the Crown's attention. It's weird that people would be talking of the EIC as a behemoth and the threat the United States poses when you have Napoleon-motherfucking-Bonaparte at the tail end of stomping across Europe even though they're past the point where his illusion of invincibility has been shattered.

Napoleon would currently be on Elba at the point this show is taking place.

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Biaga
Oct 27, 2009

Zythrst posted:

Napoleon would currently be on Elba at the point this show is taking place.

Adding to that, you see a lot of soldiers in the Red of the British army sitting around begging. Delany makes a point to usually give them coin (as he does in episode 4 before the party). Those are veterans of the battle of Waterloo who invaded British streets in the years after the battle.

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