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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Snowden has said numerous times that he would face the US courts if they were willing to consider the potential that information he released was in the public interest. The Espionage Act specifically forbids this, so if he comes back it's only going to be for the sake of having the book thrown at him. Whether that constitutes a fair trial is up to you, I suppose it depends on how much you inherently respect the US legal system. I wish they would agree to consider that and just try him for his revelations about foreign surveillance which clearly didn't serve any US public interest.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:26
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Holy poo poo I didn't believe it would happen! Super happy for her, really glad that happened 
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Jan 17, 2017 23:27
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Snowden has said numerous times that he would face the US courts if they were willing to consider the potential that information he released was in the public interest. The Espionage Act specifically forbids this, so if he comes back it's only going to be for the sake of having the book thrown at him. Whether that constitutes a fair trial is up to you, I suppose it depends on how much you inherently respect the US legal system. That's disagreeing with the law, not if his trial is fair or not.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:27
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Sinteres posted:I wish they would agree to consider that and just try him for his revelations about foreign surveillance which clearly didn't serve any US public interest. He thinks the public interest leaks absolve the rest, and he won't come back until the justice system agrees.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:28
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God dammit Obama! Chelsea Manning should have gotten the death penalty. Edward Snowden deserves the same, he deserves worse really. But I have my doubts Orange Judas is going to punish his fellow friend of Ivan. I guess if there is any tiny silver lining its that it will piss off trans-haters, but justice is a lot more important than pissing off lovely people and this is a miscarriage of justice.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:33
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hakimashou posted:God dammit Obama! Great bait, m8.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:35
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Spending seven years in prison under conditions that most of the world considers torture, attempting suicide twice, then being released on a whim by an outgoing president doesn't really redeem the US justice system. Snowden was right to flee. Snowden is a russian spy and a defector who deserves the supreme sanction, every breath he takes is a miscarriage of justice. Manning got off easy and is lucky to be alive at all.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:37
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hakimashou posted:Snowden is a russian spy and a defector who deserves the supreme sanction, every breath he takes is a miscarriage of justice. hmmm quite
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Jan 17, 2017 23:38
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In case you weren't aware, solitary confinement is staying in a room with no contact to the outside world for 23 hours. That will mess with your mind, and considering Chelsea Manning was suffering from several mental health issues (likely stemming from the lack of treatment for her gender dysphoria), I can't imagine it went well for her. Manning still spent 7 years, and for leaking information, I feel that's pretty justified for a 1st time offender. She also expressed guilt for her actions, things neither Snowden or Assange have shown.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:49
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This poo poo is so good it should be framed and put on a wall: https://twitter.com/mariabustillos/status/821484263421816832 Edit: even though the pronoun is wrong.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:51
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Well, better late then never, but still kind of cowardly for Obama to wait until the end of his term when the political fallout isn't his problem anymore. What kept him from commuting Chelsea's sentence a year ago?
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Jan 18, 2017 00:00
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Not a Step posted:Well, better late then never, but still kind of cowardly for Obama to wait until the end of his term when the political fallout isn't his problem anymore. What kept him from commuting Chelsea's sentence a year ago? Not wanting to make Hillary say he was wrong, presumably.
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Jan 18, 2017 00:01
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alpha_destroy posted:Edit: even though the pronoun is wrong. I liked this one: https://twitter.com/manymanywords/status/821484077689831424
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Jan 18, 2017 00:05
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JeffersonClay posted:They kept her in solitary for 11 months, not 7 years. The way she was treated was hosed up but I don't think all prison time is torture. Depends on the prison. I'd say most American prisons, especially in the south, are probably torture.
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Jan 18, 2017 00:07
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Not a Step posted:Well, better late then never, but still kind of cowardly for Obama to wait until the end of his term when the political fallout isn't his problem anymore. What kept him from commuting Chelsea's sentence a year ago? I think you answered your own question there.
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Jan 18, 2017 00:07
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seiferguy posted:In case you weren't aware, solitary confinement is staying in a room with no contact to the outside world for 23 hours. So what you're saying is the average hardcore gamer is inflicting self-torture basically every weekend.
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Jan 18, 2017 00:08
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Man I was really enjoying the last few days of Obama's Presidency too. Pretty loving disgusting.
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Jan 18, 2017 00:23
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Cat Army 
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Not a Step posted:Well, better late then never, but still kind of cowardly for Obama to wait until the end of his term when the political fallout isn't his problem anymore. What kept him from commuting Chelsea's sentence a year ago? If there was too much of a gap between when the commutation was issued and when it actually went into effect, he'd just cause Manning supporters to make a bigger deal about her treatment.
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Jan 18, 2017 00:26
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It's possible that Trump could insist that Sessions pursue her over other charges or that they could just add time to her sentence for infractions.
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Jan 18, 2017 00:35
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Thanks Obama for doing a good thing for once.
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Jan 18, 2017 00:38
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The Iron Rose posted:Man I was really enjoying the last few days of Obama's Presidency too. Agreed, neoliberals need to be purged from all parts of the government. They all are a bunch of worthless warhawks and losers.
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Jan 18, 2017 00:55
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Did anything ever come of people saying the leaks she posted had information pertaining to tribal leaders/allies that helped us, which would cause them to be retaliated against? I remember that being a huge issue during her initial trial, that her leaks also hurt our allies. I think whistleblowers should be protected obviously, but that stuff doesn't need to come out. I realize she was getting worked over by Assange taking advantage of her mental state, but if she did leak information that led to innocent people being hurt, she did deserve some sentence. There's a difference between leaking our human rights abuses and leaking out stuff that could get people or their families hurt. Even with that though, 7 years has been long enough. Especially considering she was put in a male prison which is ridiculous.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:05
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Stuff like this deserved to come out: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/special-reports/article24696685.html Anyone know if it lead to prosecutions?
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Jan 18, 2017 01:08
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paperwind posted:I think you answered your own question there. Yeah, but I was hoping there was a better answer than 'chronic lack of spine'. Main Paineframe posted:If there was too much of a gap between when the commutation was issued and when it actually went into effect, he'd just cause Manning supporters to make a bigger deal about her treatment. Why does there need to be any gap at all? Is there a Constitutional rule that prevents Obama from ordering her immediate release on time served?
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Jan 18, 2017 01:13
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Her leaks literally caused a financial crisis in Iceland. There's a pretty big loving difference between releasing evidence of illegal behaviour and dumping hundreds of thousands of diplomatic cables that caused a shitton of problems with our allies.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:14
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tekz posted:Stuff like this deserved to come out: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/special-reports/article24696685.html Why would it? There's no credible evidence or witnesses.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:14
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The Iron Rose posted:Her leaks literally caused a financial crisis in Iceland. There's a pretty big loving difference between releasing evidence of illegal behaviour and dumping hundreds of thousands of diplomatic cables that caused a shitton of problems with our allies. How was Manning in a position to do corporate espionage when she was in military intelligence? Also, it's not like banks around the world were in crisis in late 2008 or anything.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:18
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Not a Step posted:Yeah, but I was hoping there was a better answer than 'chronic lack of spine'. Because Obama wanted her to serve a certain amount of time behind bars before going free.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:20
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The Iron Rose posted:Her leaks literally caused a financial crisis in Iceland. There's a pretty big loving difference between releasing evidence of illegal behaviour and dumping hundreds of thousands of diplomatic cables that caused a shitton of problems with our allies. So you value a facade of stability over actual justice. Nice.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:20
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I am gonna need actual documented evidence that her leaking these documents led to economic collapse in Ireland and the economic collapse was not instead caused by the recession that was in place around the world at the time of it happening.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:22
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Famethrowa posted:So you value a facade of stability over actual justice. Nice. Yes? That's never been in question. Hollismason posted:I am gonna need actual documented evidence that her leaking these documents led to economic collapse in Ireland and the economic collapse was not instead caused by the recession that was in place around the world at the time of it happening. Caused was an overstatement, but do you like, not remember the hubub around the REYKJAVIK13 cable? The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 01:22
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Main Paineframe posted:Because Obama wanted her to serve a certain amount of time behind bars before going free. Conveniently, that amount of time lined up perfectly with him leaving office and dumping the fallout on the next person in line.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:23
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The Iron Rose posted:Yes? That's never been in question. Just checking if you are actually that mindless, thanks.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:27
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Tbh if you're an ally of the US you deserved it just as much
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Jan 18, 2017 01:27
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Rookersh posted:Did anything ever come of people saying the leaks she posted had information pertaining to tribal leaders/allies that helped us, which would cause them to be retaliated against? I remember that being a huge issue during her initial trial, that her leaks also hurt our allies. I mentioned this in the Trumpocalypse thread, but one of the more compelling mitigating circumstances to me is that prior to Chelsea's data dump, Wikileaks had done at least a reasonable facsimile of due diligence in redacting potentially dangerously sensitive information that had been passed to them. There was no particularly major reason to assume they'd be less responsible this time around. I seem to recall some folks expressing the somewhat reasonable view that "well, it's just not logistically feasible for Wikileaks to review this much data prior to release", but it does somewhat reduce Manning's culpability in my view even aside from the whole conditions-of-detention and fragile-mental-state thing.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:37
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Looks like Assange might actually do it, the madman https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/821505178549493760
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Jan 18, 2017 01:41
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Guy Goodbody posted:Looks like Assange might actually do it, the madman So does Trump pardon him if he's convicted of whatever crime, or does he think that Trump can guarantee a show trial like Putin in Russia?
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Jan 18, 2017 01:44
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It doesn't matter. As soon as Assange steps outside of the embassy, he'll be arrested by the Metropolitan Police and put on the next flight to Stockholm. I would not be surprised if they're doubling the patrol now.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:45
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I very seriously doubt Assange is turning himself over to anyone, but if he did, he might take comfort in thinking Trump could commute his sentence since there's precedent.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:45
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The Iron Rose posted:Yes? That's never been in question. You are a heartless, loathsome ghoul.
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Jan 18, 2017 01:46
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