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In a fair world she deserved a loving medal, and if a revolution comes around and manages to rename every place named after lost causer morons and other disgusting butchers, may her name be on the list of new names. Revealing the ugliness of the world is not causing it, no matter how hard you want to spin it. That's my finger to the natsec idiots in the thread rn.
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Jan 18, 2017 10:12
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"God, progressive voters are so fickle, why won't they come out" "Hey, let's destroy the life of this whistleblower, make them serve twice the time for the crime we pin on them, and let the actual butchers of Iraq go free and become respected elder statesmen, that will show them" The Manning case was like example 10001 of why dems can barely get left wing voters to stop being apathetic. She served more time than the underlings who got thrown to the dogs for Abu Ghraib. She was sentenced for three times as much time as the worst sentence handed over Abu Ghraib. Agnosticnixie fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Jan 18, 2017 |
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Jan 18, 2017 13:05
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JeffersonClay posted:Trump may grant your silly wish "Maybe we could do without the US military killing a few million people whenever the state department has delusions" "Oh you silly foreigner" A party that got to power on the back of anti-war sentiment and immediately went "you know what, war is actually good". Not morally bankrupt.
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Jan 18, 2017 17:20
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JeffersonClay posted:Is this some feverish claim that the Libya intervention killed millions? Hate to break it to you but Democrats never campaigned on or for pacifism. I'm glad Lybia managed to have a lower body count than most US interventions. That doesn't make it a good track record except in the utterly evil mind of a technocratic gently caress.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:20
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evilweasel posted:oh good, feelings in response to discussions about facts, a sure sign you know things instead of just feel them There is no fact involved in reducing US interventionism to Lybia as a justification for its potential for good, especially not when it was obvious that I was talking about Iraq, which was a bipartisan boondoggle. quote:It also has a lower body count than non-interventions such as Rwanda or the Great African War so therefore interventions are good.
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Jan 18, 2017 18:36
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The Iron Rose posted:If by perfect you mean the worst. We could do without a traitor as our loudest advocate to America. We could do with more Mannings and fewer "respect are flag" military transitioners, hth Also treason has a specific legal definition.
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Jan 18, 2017 21:55
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He ran to Russia because he was literally stranded there when his passport was blocked. Assange has been tut-tuting him for being critical of Russia.
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Jan 19, 2017 00:25
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evilweasel posted:nope, my point is still valid either way, while yours relies on ignoring the rest of that "Clearly I am the only reasonable person here as what I say matches my personal biases perfectly" Be honest, you learned how to argue by reading Ludwig von Mises?
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Jan 19, 2017 00:56
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evilweasel posted:drawing a distinction between external espionage and internal survellence is a completely normal thing normal people do because one of them empowers a government to act in a more totalitarian way against their citizens and another is states enhancing their security against external threats Both tend to follow each other rather closely, and paranoia abroad becomes paranoia at home very easily. Also thank you for establishing your biases, but there is in fact not a lot of rational basis for this divide you're making.
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Jan 19, 2017 02:15
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Dead Reckoning posted:It's incredibly grating that a large fraction of the people lining up to give Manning sloppy blowjobs for damaging our national security and relationships with allies in a childlike tantrum refuse to even acknowledge that the United States has a legitimate interest in conducting private diplomacy and foreign espionage. See: Chomskyan's breathtakingly stupid assertion that the Chinese Politburo have the same expectation of freedom from U.S. Government surveillance as an American citizen does. The delusion is on the american citizen expecting this freedom really.
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Jan 19, 2017 10:20
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Dead Reckoning posted:Watch out, Donald Trump said he's going to start deporting edgelords next week. Excuse me for being cynical about a country that has Tuskegee and Iran-Contra on its recent resume. Maybe the US should stop treating its crimes as a matter of national security.
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Jan 19, 2017 10:30
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They definitely have the right and expectation, I'm just not quite sure what you're trying to say otherwise? Also like, some if not most of the diplomatic cables were about the spying the US was doing on allies who are ostensibly liberal democracies, not about China, if you're going to go by that standard.
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Jan 19, 2017 10:51
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evilweasel posted:of course i can, the primary danger from bulk surveillance by a nation's government is its aid in totalitarianism "Why do these people even deserve human rights or privacy, they're not flying my flag" - a very serious person
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Jan 19, 2017 14:32
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evilweasel posted:man, you are going to be furious when you learn that the chinese government monitors its citizens internet and uses it to squash dissent quite openly "China does bad thing, therefore we are allowed to stoop to their level and consider ourselves good" - What very serious persons believe. Also in case you missed it, cointelpro has been a thing for literally decades.
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Jan 19, 2017 14:53
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evilweasel posted:those two things do seem the same, to an idiot "I am a very serious person who brings rational arguments to this thread by calling them morons" - Much serious, so argument, wow (You have yet to make a cogent argument that holds up, and you have yet to respond to a single criticism by anything but "well you're a moron", which is great to showcase how you can't even defend your ethically and morally bankrupt natsec bullshit)
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Jan 19, 2017 15:05
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:One of the biggest problems I feel we have on the left is that we've spent so much time (correctly) criticising the numerous failures of American foreign policy that we've lost the perspective to see anything else. (edit - I missed the word "sole" before superpower, so nevermind) The Great African War happened in that time period, and Africom wasn't actually uninvolved.
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Jan 19, 2017 19:28
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