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God dammit Obama! Chelsea Manning should have gotten the death penalty. Edward Snowden deserves the same, he deserves worse really. But I have my doubts Orange Judas is going to punish his fellow friend of Ivan. I guess if there is any tiny silver lining its that it will piss off trans-haters, but justice is a lot more important than pissing off lovely people and this is a miscarriage of justice.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:33
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Spending seven years in prison under conditions that most of the world considers torture, attempting suicide twice, then being released on a whim by an outgoing president doesn't really redeem the US justice system. Snowden was right to flee. Snowden is a russian spy and a defector who deserves the supreme sanction, every breath he takes is a miscarriage of justice. Manning got off easy and is lucky to be alive at all.
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Jan 17, 2017 23:37
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Not a Step posted:Well, better late then never, but still kind of cowardly for Obama to wait until the end of his term when the political fallout isn't his problem anymore. What kept him from commuting Chelsea's sentence a year ago? It would have been obnoxiously unjust to fail to punish her at all, or for it to be some trifling punishment.
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Jan 18, 2017 03:20
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Hollismason posted:The Rosenbergs were literally spies for the Russian government and provided Nuclear Secrets. Manning released documents that showed the US government covered up the murder of innocent civilians in Iraq. I agree edward snowden should suffer the same fate as those miscreants yes.
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Jan 18, 2017 03:23
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Not a Step posted:As I've mentioned before, it just seems super convenient that the optimal amount of punishment for Chelsea Manning just *happened* to be right after Obama leaves office and its somebody else's problem. Why not months ago when it was apparent the prison system was loving her over in regards to needed medical assistance and excessive solitary confinement? Did she really just need that extra few months of punishment? She was lucky to escape the death penalty.
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Jan 18, 2017 05:02
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Not a Step posted:Im really more grousing at the 'the amount of time she served was perfectly correct and in no way reflected political expediency on Obama's part' crowd. If your stance is 'probably merited the death penalty' then I'll happily defend her commutation to May. Presidents mostly commute people right before they leave office. I'm not sure they try to sit down and figure out exactly how many years the person ~really~ deserved. When it comes time to leave office, people get their commutations. It's a special presidential privilige, if the person is guilty, like chelsea manning is, then its an act of mercy. Spitballing, but since this is a very controversial pardon, it would have had consequences for the democratic party. Whether some poo poo rat like chelsea manning gets let out of prison or not is issue number 64,328,521 in the list of political priorities in the US and it would have been very irresponsible to pay any political cost, no matter how small, over it.
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Jan 18, 2017 10:45
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Agnosticnixie posted:In a fair world she deserved a loving medal, and if a revolution comes around and manages to rename every place named after lost causer morons and other disgusting butchers, may her name be on the list of new names. In a fair world, there could be no question of a commutation because she would have been convicted of aiding the enemy and given the death penalty.
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Jan 18, 2017 10:47
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Agnosticnixie posted:"God, progressive voters are so fickle, why won't they come out" Giving vast troves of sensitive state and defense secrets to our enemies isn't whistleblowing.
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Jan 18, 2017 13:11
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bag em and tag em posted:On one hand It's good but on the other she's being released into the wilds of Trump's America as a widely hated trans-person while her civil liberties are in extreme danger of being stripped away in an egregious fashion. I don't imagine her life going in a great direction. Should have thought about that before betraying her country. Anyway I get the feeling she'll be feted by naive and stupid people.
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Jan 18, 2017 22:16
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evilweasel posted:even if you think their leaks were justified there's no comparison regarding the scale of Snowden and Manning's leaks compared to, well, anyone besides Daniel Ellisberg and literal spies Snowden is a literal spy/defector.
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Jan 18, 2017 22:16
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There's a word for people who defect to Russia with defense secrets.
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Jan 19, 2017 01:53
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I have no love lost on Julian Assange. He's probably in it with the FSB given Wikileaks track record. But he's not an American and wasn't entrusted with secrets, he's a journalist so he can do what he wants with stuff criminals give him. Press is and should always be perfectly free, but people aren't free to share secrets theyve been entrusted with and see them disseminated to our enemies. Doing that should carry the harshest possible penalty.
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Jan 19, 2017 01:57
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is the gender thing going to torpedo any Russia Today gig for Chelsea?
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Jan 19, 2017 06:42
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Main Paineframe posted:Oh, absolutely. I'm more targeting my argument at the people who for some reason expect President Obama to pardon Snowden for revealing the NSA spying programs that President Obama already knew about and thought were perfectly fine. Snowden knew full well what he was doing and that he would never again be able to return to the US, but there are far too many supporters who don't seem to understand why the government is not in the business of granting clemency to people who think the government is wrong about things. It would be a shocking miscarriage of justice to pardon a spy as despicable as snowden.
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Jan 20, 2017 12:16
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