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Mr. Wynand posted:Honest question: How is class consciousness meaningfully different from tribalism across class lines (rather than race, nationality etc.) ? Rational self interest. If you have a group of people who really are in similar circumstances in important ways, then that means there are rational policies that can significantly improve the flourishing of the members of that group. At the very least at the expense of other groups, but remarkably often in a positive-sum way that benefits much of the rest of society. Whereas if you have groups that are just aggregations of disparate individuals tied together by myths, then you need to leave the terrain of rational fact-based attention to cause and effect in order to find a policy that helps everyone in the group. If you have a political coalition of generals, shopkeepers and farmers, chances are you end up with some fantasy like 'invade Russia and take their stuff, sell it, then farm their land'. Obviously, the tricky bit here is that it is not merely necessary to think you are right, but to be right. You have to identify the real groups involved, and the real causal relations between them. Zoologists get that kind of stuff wrong all the time, finding what they thought was one species is actually 5, and vice versa. If you ever find yourself trying to feed a lion on grass (because that's what most large African mammals eat) you hosed up. On this model, Clinton and the sort-of-left faction of Democrats specifically hosed up by trying to feed a minimal wage increase to retirees. That was the one big policy Bernie got her to accept. She even mentioned it sometimes, when the topic came up, generally because Trump hadn't done anything outrageous for 2 days in a row. The thing is, again and again you would see some interview where some guy living on a coal industry pension would be described as 'working class' based on their clothes and accent. Then the journalist would be mystified to see them voting for coal industry tax breaks over wage rises for the girl bringing them a beer...
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Jan 24, 2017 11:13
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White Rock posted:To clarify what i think your saying here: The coal worker would want to get to keep or get back his steady job with a bit of pride rather then being payed slightly more as a Walmart greeter (if he can even land THAT)? It's more that he, and his wife, needs the coal company to stay a going concern so they keep paying his pension and health care. Whatever the piece of paper says, he doesn't trust Wall Stree to keep doing so in case of bankruptcy. And no green energy startup is going to be taking on the health plans and pensions of a bunch of 50 year olds. Having worked for 30 years in a mine, he is going to spend the rest of his like as a net purchaser of labour. So high wages are bad for him, just as they are for Trump. He has a low, stable and fixed income, so can budget precisely, and see how much is going out in tax, and what inflation would do to his finances. Having worked harder and longer than the average person, he suspects that any welfare system that simply redistributes money is going to be taking from him more than it is giving. In other words, what he actually, objectively needs is what the Republicans promise, and in fact have a record of delivering; low wages and low tax. You could win his vote on objective grounds with, say, socialised health care and Wall Street reform. Or you could appeal to to his solidarity by spending a lot of time and focus on people like him; how what you do is going to help out his nephew and granddaughter. But you can't just say 'go visit this URL', expect him to decide to make those sacrifices if you are not willing to spend the time to even ask.
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Jan 24, 2017 19:09
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