Stellaris - To Serve Man - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Stellaris - To Serve Man

«‹›6 »

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

misguided rage posted:

The patch note just means that you can't queue up move in -> move out -> move in 50 times any more, presumably they added some small cooldown on rolling for the event.

if that's what they mean then the patch notes are poorly written because that's not the natural interpretation of what's written there at all

# ¿ May 26, 2017 21:43

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 10, 2024 03:28

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Main Paineframe posted:

It makes perfect sense to me. It doesn't say that you'll only have one chance per system to roll the event, it just says that you can't constantly go in and out of the same system to do it.

it doesn't say anything about "constantly" going in and out, or adding a cooldown, and if that's what they wanted to express it would've been very easy to say exactly that "added a cooldown to &c"

it makes perfect sense to you because you're reading it with pre-existing knowledge of how it works

# ¿ May 26, 2017 22:46

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

lol I love that they didn't even make it a particularly good army

# ¿ May 28, 2017 10:58

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

JuniperCake posted:

The army unit isn't that bad. It's still the strongest army unit in the game. Close in power to a titanic army (a little less damage but massively higher morale damage as well as having more health/morale than a titanic army as well).

getting one of "the strongest army unit of the game" would not be impressive even if ground combat mattered, unless the gap between the strongest unit in the game and average units was much larger

JuniperCake posted:

Also think of it as a fun flavor thing. Considering the shroud can give you far worse stuff (it can actually actively harm you), it's not the worst thing at all. I had the Avatar + 3 Titans and basically could stomp any defense flat in seconds and it was kinda fun to watch.

so can a stack of 30 [whatever] armies, and that's a lot easier to get

# ¿ May 28, 2017 19:50

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Weavered posted:

Pro tip for anyone else who is new to the game: purges are pretty extreme.

I put my newly conquered systems under two different sectors (as they were at opposite sides of the galaxy) and after a few years I notice my fleet capacity drops a fair chunk. Turns out the 40 odd pops have been wiped out, in many cases removing entire colonies and giving me -990 relations with every other species for genocide. Also aside from feeling pretty lovely it'll take nearly a millennia before you're forgiven.

not sure I understand what happened here, did you think that turning on purging was like "root out the disloyal subjects" instead of "kill everyone"?

# ¿ May 28, 2017 22:04

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

regardless of when it comes up, gating a basic UI feature behind a tech (a tech that's kind of crap otherwise, at that) is a bafflingly bad design decision

# ¿ Jun 1, 2017 05:55

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

I think I disagree about authoritatrian - caste system is mostly good in the early game but as is usually the case in this kind of game the early game is the most important part

# ¿ Jun 5, 2017 04:13

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Arglebargle III posted:

Is this game good yet?

it varies

e: there's a lot of good content but the basic mechanics are passable at best

# ¿ Jun 5, 2017 07:32

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Jenny Angel posted:

Egalitarian/Xenophile/Spiritual

Society of Friends

# ¿ Jun 9, 2017 18:22

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

that's actually the new patch feature where if you choose a bad enough species name the game will start shifting otherwise pacifist nations to have fanatic purifier personalities

# ¿ Jul 1, 2017 06:27

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

nimby posted:

Is it a good idea to ignore tile bonuses and just turn a planet into a giant mineral/energy production center?
I found a 24 size planet with +50% to minerals, so now it's my personal giant strip mine, nearing 200 minerals/month while growing the last few pops.

Is it worth it to do this on non-specific-bonus planets?

you can think of the +50% minerals thing as being tile bonuses everywhere, so just act as you would if every time came with a +1 to +2.5 (depending on tech) mineral tile bonus on top of whatever it currently has. in other words, yes, mine everything unless there's something super fancy there

# ¿ Jul 11, 2017 06:07

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Wicked Them Beats posted:

Stellaris isn't really getting better or deeper, it's just getting more.

Most of what you're saying is nonsense but this actually sums up the state of things pretty well imo

Tarquinn posted:

Would you be interested in a trade agreement with England?

still can't get over the amount of extra animation/VO work firaxis gave themselves in order to put out that awful loving feature =/

# ¿ Jul 13, 2017 20:55

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Fintilgin posted:

I'll never get why Firaxis paid for a voice actor and then only had them record like six lines. There should have been a bunch of greetings/insults/compliments based of relations, state of the game, era etc.

Probably controversial, but I'd love to see them drop the (admittedly cute) gimmick where the leaders speak their native language and have them speak English so that they could sell the character of each leader more. Three generic lines in sumerian gets real old real fast.

I mean the implementation was bad but the real problem was that the idea itself. pulling the player out of the game to experience a cutscene with a few menu options at the bottom is not a great way to experience diplomacy even if you get the voice acting right

# ¿ Jul 13, 2017 21:28

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Libluini posted:

Personally I think, if you wouldn't mind playing in some sort of graphic-less mode with only icons, why even play a video game? Just take a calculator, a pencil and some paper and go to town. (And I'm not joking, back when I was a child and had no computer, I would sometimes waste time by making up RPGs and space games on paper. As long as I didn't mind having zero graphics, this was perfectly fine.)

right, because the only difference between computer games and playing a pen & paper game with yourself is the graphics, this is definitely a sane thing for someone who has ever played a computer game to believe

# ¿ Jul 19, 2017 18:33

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

turn off the TV posted:

I am completely fine with Paradox adding features that I, personally, don't care too much about but other people want.

Killer-of-Lawyers posted:

More options isn't bad. Some people are spergs that like to micromanage their tiles. Some people just want to get hassle free income and push their galactic conquest. Both of these people can play and enjoy the same game.

this would make sense if we were talking about, say, alternate game modes, but in this context it's utter nonsense. of course more options in a strategy game can be bad!

part of the fun of playing a strategy game is deciding "what is the best decision to make in this situation" and you never want the answer to this question to be "do a bunch of soulsucking micro"

DatonKallandor posted:

As long as sectors are smart enough to build the correct robots for the tiles a lot of the micro hassle would be cut out anyway.

lol

# ¿ Jul 22, 2017 19:09

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Splicer posted:

The reason I'm just over about the basic genetic engineering is that you can opt out of the micro by just dumping all your points into Enduring, Communal, Rapid Breeders etc. and not really lose out competitively. If the robits have a bunch of similar tile independent options (e.g. "Efficient reactors: Reduce energy upkeep by X") then worst case scenario you'll still be able to avoid engaging with it beyond treating it like a passive upgrade system.

I mean, sure, but that's still a bad situation for the game to be in. like, the best situation is that the micro-heavy options are trap choices, which is also something that is bad to have in a strategy game

# ¿ Jul 22, 2017 19:30

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Splicer posted:

In multiplayer the micro options cost Attention (or Other People's Tolerance For You Pausing To Make Long-rear end Turns) so yeah, in that case equivalent would always trap option.

In single player though whether equivalent-but-mechanically-distinct micro options are a trap option or the best option depends on whether you find the implementation fun or not. It sounds like making a Mining Robit template and a Farming Robit template will be pretty easy, and they can even have different pictures! So that'll probably be pretty fun even if it's not hugely better than ticking "cheap electrics". If I decided to do the synthetic ascension later though then customising all my dudes will probably be a much bigger hassle, so I'd probably just stuff extra power cores into everyone and call it a day. If just stuffing everyone full of fusion cores is actively worse than building Unity Bots and Power Plant Bots and such then we might be hitting territory.

I'm not sure if I'm agreeing with you or disagreeing with you. I think I'm just saying things tbh

well, "a bunch of different options that all more or less come out to the same thing" is also bad game design, is the thing. don't ask players to make decisions if you don't intend to make those decisions matter

having distinct pictures for farming robots and mining robots etc. sounds nice but the way to handle that is to have the pictures change based on the tile the robot is assigned to

# ¿ Jul 22, 2017 20:57

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

turn off the TV posted:

I don't really care about min maxing. I got into Paradox games by reading Wiz's LPs, which weren't concerned about winning nearly as much as producing enjoyable stories.

I don't really care about what you don't really care about :shrug:

e: to be very slightly less snarky, if you only care about the roleplaying aspect that's fine but it's bizarre to put that forward as an argument in favour of designing the game mechanics badly

Mazz posted:

I don't think we've had a single dev dairy where someone didn't get upset at it so just nod and move on IMO.

welcome to the stellaris thread, where people talk about paradox interactive's strategy game, stellaris

# ¿ Jul 22, 2017 21:44

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

turn off the TV posted:

Well, why should anyone give a poo poo that you don't want to micromanage robots?

this is at least a more honest way of phrasing your original dumbass post, yeah

anyway if you have some complaint about a flaw in the game's ability to ~produce enjoyable stories~ I think you would be justifiably annoyed if someone replied with I DON'T CARE ABOUT STORIES SO THAT ASPECT OF THE GAME SHOULD SUCK

# ¿ Jul 22, 2017 21:52

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Splicer posted:

I said equivalent, not equal. In my imaginary example above, you can go the micro route and get ~5% more food and metal, or go the "gently caress it, fusion cores" route and consume ~10% less energy. Much like I usually use genetic engineering to go "gently caress it, Venerable/Communal/Fast Breeders for everyone".

I know. I'm saying if the options are genuinely equivalent, that's still bad, even if they're not strictly speaking *equal*. Your decisions should be meaningful.

Dallan Invictus posted:

I think that a priority, both in the game's design and for the players who have responded to it well, has been "produce enjoyable stories" or, more directly, "let the player do cool stuff". What this has meant is a broad and growing variety of Cool Stuff players can do, but with fiddly UIs attached that make doing said stuff in Mechanically Optimal ways immensely annoying, or alternatively with little mechanical difference between doing Cool Thing A and Cool Thing B.

I'm not sure, though, how you can get that kind of breadth of options without compromising the mechanical depth or the usability of those options. So maybe your criticism is actually reading like "I don't care about stories so that aspect should suck" to the people who are objecting to it.

Yeah, I'm pretty sceptical of the idea that the ability to "produce enjoyable stories" depends on this kind of obnoxious micro stuff, let alone having having mechanically indifferentiable options. In fact it's pretty clearly better from a cool stories perspective to have your choices be significant and to avoid them resulting in tedium hell.

anyway it's nice of you to imagine a slightly more reasonable version of the people I was arguing with but I regret to inform you that they are actually the dumbest motherfuckers alive:

Soup du Jour posted:

I find it telling that the people who complain the most about Stellaris tend to be people who have a compulsion to min-max

turn off the TV posted:

Really, if you're autistic enough that you're unable to play a game without being as efficient as possible you should check out the console commands on the wiki, they're pretty hard to beat.

# ¿ Jul 22, 2017 22:18

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

also I know that this is like telling goons 10 years ago not to use homophobic insults but you can talk about those filthy min-maxers you hate so much without going in on autistic people

# ¿ Jul 22, 2017 22:42

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Splicer posted:

I don't see why options being equivalent means your decisions aren't meaningful. I would hope that Cutthroat Politics and Mining Guilds are equivalent, by which I mean equally useful, but choosing one over the other is definitely meaningful.

if that's your definition of "equivalent" then just having the non-micro and the heavy micro option be "equivalent" isn't good enough, since there will be lots of situations where choosing the heavy micro option is the right play

turn off the TV posted:

Wow it's crazy that when you start insulting people you might have people be rude to you back!

A++ reading comprehension right here

Jeb Bush 2012 fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Jul 22, 2017

# ¿ Jul 22, 2017 22:45

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Bholder posted:

What even is the complaint about anymore?

To me a template system sound like something that removes needless micromanagement. You just make a mining droid, an energy robot and a science robot and then just build them to places where you need them. I just cannot see an instance where you might have to customize your robots per planet or even tile.

tile management micro is already a serious problem in the game, adding more places where you want to make sure the right pop is on the right tile and that you have the right number of pops of each type will make it worse

# ¿ Jul 23, 2017 01:28

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Relevant Tangent posted:

Your game maybe. I have never resettled a dude. Maybe if I start a despotic hell regime I will.

eh? resettlement is only a tiny fraction of the tile management micro in this game, it's expensive enough that I rarely use it even if I'm playing authoritarian

# ¿ Jul 23, 2017 02:03

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

lot of people feeling the need to pretend they don't know the difference between game setup options and in-game choices for some reason

# ¿ Jul 24, 2017 00:05

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 10, 2024 03:28

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Palleon posted:

Otherwise I'm left with what I do now, which is queueing an entire planets worth of buildings before handing it to sector AI because I don't trust it whatsoever. I keep hearing from devs that sectors are meant to help, and not a punishment, but if sectors were actually designed to help players, we'd use them voluntarily, instead of being forced into it by core limits. And if sectors actually made reasonable decisions (not even min maxing, just not...whatever it does now), I'd probably use it voluntarily.

You can't reasonably expect sectors to be as good as manual management, so in the absence of core limits the game incentives would point towards micromanaging all your planets, which would defeat the main point of the sector mechanic.

Though like you said it doesn't actually work atm anyway, since by far the best play is to give the sectors fully developed planets. I think the best solution would be to abandon automation and instead have sectors abstract out planet management, and do so in a way that removes the incentive to manually develop them first. Like if sector'd planets had a flat output that only depends on planet type/population/number of buildings built. There's quite a few implementation problems with that idea, though

# ¿ Jul 24, 2017 16:06

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Stellaris - To Serve Man

«‹›6 »