Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

It sort of has to come in Banks. How else could you eat all your neighbors?

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Baronjutter posted:

I'd love it if each planet was more like a tiny civ map. A bunch of terrain types all with their own bonuses and traits and poo poo, and you'd build things on top of those. But have each tile actually represent some sort of specific feature or zone on the planet, not just generic "empty land" with maybe a bonus. Have hills, plains, jungles, forests, deserts, tundra, permafrost. Have the whole thing more like a civ city map and you improve the tiles. Have multiple buildings that do similar things but on different terrain. Build kelp farms on the ocean tile for food vs a farm on grasslands. Stuff like that. So if you know your planets have a lot of ocean, you'll want to jump on those level 3 kelp farms before you bother with the level 3 hydroponic farms.

And in the same way, treat the population more like a civ city. Workers working the tile improvements vs specialists working inside the cities, and the ability to have more pops than tiles. Have planetary level improvements that open up slots for specialists. Build that huge planetary university that gives +10% science production plus has 2 scientist specialist slots. Stuff like that.

Yes very much this and thank you for saving me the work of typing it. Haven't played a Civ game in ages so here is how I'm imagining things: Have a city block module where you can stack pops and that acts as a hub for extractors. I'm not sure what they would produce on their own, maybe science and energy since that's basically money? Maybe even influence once it gets big enough? Then I'd have the pop capacity increased with every adjacent city tile so say you start with a 2 pop capacity, increased by 2 for every neighbouring city tile. That gives you the choice of making a giant economic hub like Trantor that cannot feed itself. On the other hand I'd reduce extractor efficiency with distance from cities so you could have a lot of tiny farm villages to feed you mega cities. Then roll this in the rework of ground combat so you have to capture all the cities on a planet to get the whole planet, a bit like the sieges in CK2. This would make ground combat a bit more interesting since you could have partially contested planets where the defender could still raise new armies on one side and the attacker could get bogged down if he can't get reinforcements in.

Another idea would be to make cities able to produce everything except food until the very late game and have the option to go heavy into extractor or city tech.
Good/bad idea?

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Anticheese posted:

How do you drug a synth?

Change one double?

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Baronjutter posted:

My fav personal bias leaking into a game is victoria 2, specially because the ideological leakage ended up making the economy not function at all and the only way around it was via some sort of command economy like state capitalism or full out communism.

Sounds accurate though?

Edit: :thejoke:

genericnick fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jan 25, 2017

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

GunnerJ posted:

I've often thought this reflects a difficulty of designing games and AI to model a real political and economic system more than anything. A strategy game will give you all of the advantages of a command economy with none of the drawbacks, while it will give you all the drawbacks of a market economy and none of the advantages. (I'm not even saying this as some kind of free-marketeer either.)

I don't know. Simulating a market economy that just works is a solved problem. Assume a frictionless market with perfect information and immortal agents that maximise an utility function. Adding all the things that suck in markets would be extra work. Of course it would be kind of boring.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Well one of the breakpoints in a command economy is that upper level just doesn't get the information it needs to take useful decisions and might also get overloaded with the information it does get. Feature bloat and bad UI can model that pretty naturally.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Coolguye posted:

assuming a frictionless market with perfect information means capitalism ends in monopoly and rent almost immediately so that is not solving the market problem at all actually

like that exact presumption was one of marx's predictions as to why capitalism was bad, it would continually mature toward the crushing megacorp stage that would ensure oligarchy would rule supreme

the reality is that simulating a market in anything beyond broad strokes is actually incredibly hard, especially if you want to compare it to real economic data

Hm, and here I thought I wrote down the conditions for the Efficient Market Hypothesis. Though from memory you'd also need infinite credit so you get capitalist kumbaya instead of crushing mega corps. Definitely wouldn't be a plausible simulation of a real economy though.


Wiz posted:

People typically do not play games to experience frustrating helplessness.

From this point on the UI lying to players is a feature and not a bug.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

One thought occurd to me: Can you eat your main pops? Going omnivorous space bug might be fun.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Wanting a CIV style influence system is a bad opinion and you should feel bad.
All that stuff should tie to pop ethics. Once Stellaris gets a trade system this can increase pop divergence. Then you can get support rebels to have them change the government/ split off and be made into a client state.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

It does make a certain amount of sense. I suppose only materialists think of themselves as meat machines.
Edit: Beaten of course.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

A bit late to the party but can I just say that introducing diplo points doesn't sound like a good idea? If you introduced a new abstract point system to feed alliances the most reasonable thing to do would be to have planets cost points in peace deals. You'd have a separate resource for diplo actions that some here call for that would be equally useful for fanatic purifiers. But I don't see how it would be an improvement to the current system.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Do you now get automatic robot growth or do you still have to build them manually if you go synth?

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

As things currently look letting players pick two level one ascension perks would just be a new trap. All the really cool poo poo is in level 2.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Kitchner posted:

You'd only ever do it for roleplaying reasons. Just like right now the best build is always to be fanatic something.

Psychic cyborgs sound like a fun thing but in game terms you'd basically just get some better pop and leader stats.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

I still want to know if robot pops now grow on their own. Ready to no longer feel human if otherwise.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

No destructible mega structures for now.

Crazycryodude posted:

That said, are you allowed to tell us if we have to still manually build pops in a fully synthetic empire? Because that's a legitimate big problem I still see.

Very much this. Otherwise Synth seems to be the minimal micro path compared to bio where you have to engineer different pops for different roles to get the most out of it.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

I suppose it is inevitable that it will happen if the game lives as long as Crusader Kings. Diplomacy and war need love first though.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Was there ever a post about changes to robots in Banks? I remember reading somewhere that they no longer suffer starvation happiness penalties but was that all?

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

One answer that is new I think is that robot ascension gives you cheaper robots. Also that you can decide species to species wether to robofy.
Edit: Also can I request an unlockable tech for the synth path called 'Backups' that gives leaders who die a chance to come back?

genericnick fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Mar 15, 2017

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

PittTheElder posted:

I mean, if anything I want to play as the AI gone insane that tries to murder everyone.

Not in Banks:

wiz posted:

3) I think that's an interesting idea for the future. I'd like to do more with robots in general (more portraits, the ability to have different models of robots, the ability to start as a rebellious AI, etc) and expanding more on sentient ships could also fit into that.

The more I think about it the more I like the backups idea. Make Synth the say-no-to-death path.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

And the only reason they are not releasing CK2 today is that they rushed the release. There's a big feature patch going live this week. At least in Beta.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

That is probably not the right thread to ask this in but how does Steam handle purchases while abroad? I don't really feel like waiting two months for this DLC.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

I strongly disagree with all the suggesions that habitats should start out small. The planet penalty makes this rather unappealing and I'm pretty sure I would never build 4 tile habs.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Is there actually any way to figure out what traditions an AI has?

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

In the game I'm playing the Unbidden arrived, were destroyed and then after some years the Xenophiles woke up to save us. I immediately invited them into my federation and have now for the first time ever someone who actually does any work.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Aggree on habitats. As they are now they are very good and make a big difference when they become available. Not sure I want to fiddle with dingy little air bubbles containing all of 4 tiles.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Also the pysichic ascension species swap bug and migration treaties not doing anything for some people.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Lol if you don't run uBlock on your eyes. Even if it voids the guarantee.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

I do think the rewards for the Fortress were by far the most powerful rewards there were and I understand that they scaled them back. I'd still be salty if I drew the decoder or encoder though.

Edit: Also in single player you tended to end the game with exactly the same load out each time so that isn't optimal.

genericnick fucked around with this message at 08:29 on May 11, 2017

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Truga posted:

My friend was playing materialists yesterday, and apparently they fixed the problem where cyborgs were flat out better than synths?

???
Cyborg admirals were stronger than Synth admirals. Is that what you mean? The only other problem was that synths are micro hell in that you have to build them all manually.

Edit: That is actually a very elegant way to solve this. Though personally I think they should have put 50% on the second level only to make it really worthwhile to press the button.

genericnick fucked around with this message at 18:36 on May 13, 2017

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Anyone have a suggestion for a good ethics mix for going psionic? Would be the first time for me to play non materialist.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

binge crotching posted:

I made my dudes into cyborgs and they are pretty awesome. What happens if I take the next step and make them into robots? Is it worth doing, or should I just stick with the cool cyborgs guys I have now?

I think robots are good now. Synths are better than Cyborgs in all but edge cases and the ascension makes them cheaper and you can build them faster now.

Edit: Also don't listen to me. I still spend a lot more time being exited for updates than actually playing the game.

genericnick fucked around with this message at 16:01 on May 31, 2017

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

One silly thing I just thought of: In Multiplayer you can trade planets. Does that mean you could have psychic cyborgs with 9 trait points?

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Reads like a buff to robots to me.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Crazy voices are good. Does the VO come up for NPC empires, like in the diplo menu?

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Maybe make planet capitals immune to being turned into bio reserves when invading planets as a servitor? It's können nda a pain.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012

Wiz posted:

This is kind of a new thing with 1.9, honestly. I'm aiming to add an easy mode in 2.0.

I suppose the easiest way to do that would be an option for player advanced starts?

  • Locked thread