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Is Communism good? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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375 | 66.25% |
| No |
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191 | 33.75% |
| Total: | 523 votes | ||
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Money is useful because it is useless. This is one of the rare points where you can find agreement between people like Mises and Graeber. We reify it because so much of our society is based on the fundamental assumption that "money is real". This is some real Fukuyama "End of History" poo poo where every discussion is naturally bound by the assumptions of Neoliberalism.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:02
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lazorexplosion posted:lol do you think the communisms never had recessions? As a strong critic of Dengism, it does seem to prevent that sort of thing.
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Jan 23, 2017 00:09
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Hogge Wild posted:In this system who would decide which person works as a farmer and which person as a blogger? Anarcho-Communism generally has pretty close ideological ties with Primitive Communism. In Year Zero, we all work as farmers.
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Jan 23, 2017 17:43
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icantfindaname posted:i'm pretty sure the spanish anarchists weren't ecological anarcho-primitivists, no? I don't think too many people are arguing for anarcho-syndicalism anymore mostly because most people don't work in large factories anymore. And those that do work in industries amenable to syndicalism from a scale-perspective, those industries are driven by artificial demand (driven by sales/marketing as opposed to need) so they recognize that trying to set up a society based on those principles would deconstruct itself pretty quickly.
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Jan 23, 2017 19:42
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gobbagool posted:that and in the first world, factory jobs are actually pretty good. I live near a GE factory, they are by far the best jobs in town with most mid career and later guys pulling in six figgies. I'm sure though that in the alt-universe where anarchism (of whatever flavor) is a good idea and not a fetish for weirdos, guys working 40 hours a week in a modern factory do much better than that, right? Depends on the factory job. An illegal immigrant working at a Tyson Chicken processing plant in Missouri for $9/hour (above minimum wage!) would probably benefit from a syndicalist approach but issues of intersectionality make that a hard sell. Standard unionism would also help those people -- probably more-so (in the short term) since it represents a more immediately achievable approach.
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Jan 23, 2017 20:30
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gobbagool posted:Yes, every time I want a dozen eggs I want to negotiate a fair amount of labor "or whatever" in trade, what a simple system that isn't at all 100% retarded, because, you see, we live in caves 10,000 years ago That isn't actually how primitive economies worked. Barter economies only appear after currency.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:40
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gobbagool posted:so... currency predates barter. makes perfect sense. not to be a typical local, but I suppose you can give us some evidence of that? "Debt the First 5000 Years" by David Graeber would be the canonical text on the topic. Barter intuitively makes sense and was created as a "just so" story by early economists. However, this story is wholly unsupported by anthropology. If you look at primitive societies, you don't find barter anywhere. Instead, the only places where barter has been found to exist are places where a currency system has broken down (prisons, frontier settlements, post-disaster, etc.).
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Jan 23, 2017 21:51
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gobbagool posted:So for a primitive subsistence culture gets by by stockpiling food and then eating it, each according to their need. seems like an effective alternative to our global economy. Now, where's my new iphone? My poor goddamned kids are both sporting iPhone 6s and that makes me sad That's actually not how they worked.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:54
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gobbagool posted:that's exactly what your article in the atlantic says about Iroquois Indians, did you not read what you petulantly demanded I read? I didn't demand you read an article.
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Jan 23, 2017 21:58
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gobbagool posted:funny, leftists always criticizing Adam Smith, but every single idea coming from the left about how to manage an economy always seems to end up with lots and lots of starving people. Weird, that! Ah, so you also don't understand Adam Smith. Things are starting to make sense now.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:00
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gobbagool posted:Please, by all means, share your understanding of Adam Smith and within context explain how totally awesome communism or anarchism or whatever dumb alternative you support is in contrast to capitalism. Adam Smith is a sentimentalist, which is reflected in Wealth of Nations.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:16
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Bob le Moche posted:Actually communism is very bad, if you're a bourgeois who's used to enjoying the fruits of the exploited labor of the working class As a parasite who benefits from the labor of others while contributing nothing of value myself, I can say with authority that Communism is good.
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Jan 24, 2017 06:26
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Russia was the "sick man of Europe" and became one of the two great superpowers that controlled the world. They lost that fight, but damned close given what they started with. As Putin demonstrates, they still have a clear place on the international scene because of Communism. China was a collapsing archaic empire ridding with colonialism. Now it is a major world power. India was an important colony (but a colony) and now it is often discussed as a possible country of the future, possibly displacing China. Israel became the only stable democracy in the Middle East. Vietnam's success has been more mixed, but poverty has been halved and they were able to liberate Cambodia from the Khmer Rouge. Notable failures of Communism include: Cambodia: An omnicidal ethnostate. Lots of issues here, not sure how many of them can be meaningfully attached to "Communism" as opposed to "Nationalism" given that it was the nationalist ideology that led to the mass murder. North Korea: A secluded ethnostate ruled by a fairly incompetent dynastry. Lose a war, double down on the ruling dynastry and, yeah, you get a real shitshow. It's not like capitalist isolated petty dictatorships do well. Eastern Europe: These were Soviet Colonies post-WWII. Rather than build infrastructure, Russia purposefully dismantled their industry. Contrast that with Western Europe, where America flooded it with moeny from the Marshal Plan leading to the economic miracle. If you agree with the idea that massive government spending and interaction with business leads to explosive economic growth, you might be more amenable to Communist thought than you think.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:01
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gobbagool posted:You know, I had a roommate in college, you just reminded me of him. He was a jewish kid from Long Island who insisted that virtually every celebrity, politician, captain of industry, etc were Jewish, up to and including then then Governor of our State, Mario Cuomo. A talking about "secret Jews" everywhere. Sounds like a lot of people in the current administration! Was your roommate Paul Wolfowitz?
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Jan 24, 2017 18:15
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But what about the atrocities of Communism? *ignores slaves mining coltan*
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Jan 24, 2017 18:28
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Agnosticnixie posted:In all fairness, smartphones are pretty much a godsend from an accessibility POV and anyone who claims text messaging is inherently a luxury because we have phones deserves to get slapped. But yeah, their production is, like most consumer electronics, currently marred by the fact that most of the production line is almost as horrible as diamonds. In parts of the developing world, texts have become currency.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:36
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Sun Wu Kampf posted:It pretty much has been considering that any attempt to try communism on a larger scale than a single tiny commune has resulted in a third world shithole. That seems like an apples to oranges comparison. Russia went from being the sick man of Europe to a world-dominating superpower. China went from a backwards country being torn apart by colonialism to a giant on the world stage. While it adopted more of a hybrid approach, you can say much the same about India.
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Jan 27, 2017 18:05
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| # ¿ Apr 30, 2024 06:35 |
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Anyone who thinks Capitalism is highly efficient has never worked for a large company in a capitalist society.
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Jan 28, 2017 18:09
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