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Is Communism good? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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375 | 66.25% |
| No |
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191 | 33.75% |
| Total: | 523 votes | ||
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communism is extremely bad OP
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Mar 26, 2017 04:22
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| # ¿ May 6, 2024 09:26 |
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steinrokkan posted:What, nobody is arguing against marxists in position of power. The battle is against moderate center-left ideas, because even those can be rolled back - in absence of a concerted and dedicated opposition - in the obvious pursuit of the ultimate goal of any recent government, which is the elevation of capital to a position beyond reproach and beyond social responsibility. anyone with any sense in politics is arguing against marxists in positions of power actually
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Mar 26, 2017 04:38
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caps on caps on caps posted:So? This is immaterial to the fact that it is a transformation, just as Marx said, and furthermore that the belief in these latent human aspects is a critical pillar of communist theory, as stated by Marx: the true human being is a social being. And social means acting and feeling, and enjoying and even loving in accordance with the societal wellbeing. In terms of theory it is the idea that humans become social optimizers, which they are not under private property, which Marx also writes. And certainly not now. So this change is important, and whether it is true nature, as Marx writes, or not, it is a transformation, as he also writes. it hasn't mattered for the last 20-30 years what marx said on paper because what he advocated has never worked out in practice
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Mar 26, 2017 14:53
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hakimashou posted:And of course marxism doesn't accomplish any of this- quite the opposite. You end up with places like Russia and China where over the generations of marxist horror, the good becomes killed and starved and beaten out of the people. this is good and correct
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Mar 26, 2017 22:32
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RBC posted:theres nothing john rawls writes about that is incompatible with communism and you're a dumbass actually it is you who is the dumbass
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Mar 27, 2017 00:21
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Fiction posted:That's true but you're pulling my leg if you think even complete state control over media can hypnotize people into thinking their lives are better off now than they used to be. There are plenty of people kicking around who suffered but didn't die during the Great Leap Forward and are still alive to this day. i happen to spend a lot of time in russia and most russians i've asked aren't big fans of communism either buddy
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Mar 27, 2017 19:51
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steinrokkan posted:For most Communist countries the economic collapse happened before the revolution, with recovery after it. The Soviet Union was an exception. the number one reason the soviet union collapsed is that the economy ground to a halt and was unable to supply even basic goods to so many portions of the population even most of the people on top just said gently caress it
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Mar 27, 2017 19:59
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hakimashou posted:Denying, minimizing, or attempting to rationalize or justify the horrors of communism is denying, minimizing, or attempting to rationalize or justify the horrors of the holocaust, and for equally despicable motives. yep
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Mar 27, 2017 22:18
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the world owes central planning a debt as well for ridding the world of the awfulness that was USSR
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Mar 29, 2017 20:44
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thank you marx for making an ideology so dumb it killed itself
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Mar 29, 2017 20:44
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Fiction posted:in the long term, central planning increased life expectancy, literacy, access to health care, and production in russia and china lol it also fractures your country into tiny pieces or forces you to switch to a free market model in the long term so that's good
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Mar 29, 2017 20:54
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Cerebral Bore posted:You mean the central planning that took the USSR from a burned-down peasant country to the world's second industrial superpower in ~30 years and this with the most destructive war in modern history throwing a spanner in the works? that was actually the NEP which wasn't centrally planned
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Mar 29, 2017 21:00
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Fiction posted:the chinese government still owns pretty much all the land and their mixed economy is way more mixed than most other nations even now. also quasi central control over that economy means they're better equipped than the US to handle, say, a climate catastrophe that would require the government to be able to enact economic change instead of having the corporations pay you off to legislate how they want you to... really? you think the chinese model of governance would be more robust in the event of a disaster that removes the top leadership than the US? the one with absolutely zero democratic participation? christ lol
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Mar 29, 2017 21:02
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Cerebral Bore posted:I suppose it explains a lot if you're not even aware of when industrialization really took off in the USSR. im sorry friend but rapid industrialisation would never be possible without the economic recovery provided by the NEP and the state seizing the resources of the kulaks, very reminiscent of hitler seizing jewish funds by the way
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Mar 29, 2017 21:05
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Fiction posted:hey really? you think all the NEP traders and farmers were criminals that deserved having their assets seized and starving to death or being executed? it's incredible that people itt are literally posting soviet propaganda from the cold war period lmao. "kill their own livestock before they allowed it to be taken away"
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Mar 29, 2017 21:14
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Fiction posted:If you're not willing to expropriate you gotta get out of the Marxist kitchen. "all the starved ethnic minority farmers that managed to get a little bit rich during the NEP and then got killed are just necessary losses in our path to communism" - an actual unironic western man tyool 2017
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Mar 29, 2017 21:16
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Fiction posted:you have a tenuous grasp of history  lmbo
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Mar 29, 2017 21:19
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Cerebral Bore posted:You're not supposed to ironicat yourself. please tell me more about how insanely good stalin was and how we should all follow his example
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Mar 29, 2017 21:23
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Fiction posted:yeah i should clarify that when stalin deported all those ethnic minorities and basically chewed up and spat out the peasantry for daring to resist him...that was not good it's unfortunate that the three sets "ethnic minorities" and "bougie farmers" and "peasants" happened to overlap so much huh you realise the kulaks were peasants right?
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Mar 29, 2017 21:28
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Ardennes posted:Yeah, state-planning (Gosplan) and ownership existed during the NEP period. Also, the Soviet Union almost certainly needed crash industrialization by the mid-1920s...pretty much everything else is heavily debatable. so we agree that full on central planning economy with no free market whatsoever is really bad? im glad lenin himself planned to have NEP for several decades at least
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Mar 29, 2017 21:39
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Coohoolin posted:hi my name us bulgogi hoagie i have no knowledge of soviet nation-building and ethnography whatsoever, please listen to my poo poo opinions hi my name is cooholin i'm an american who literally believes the propaganda of a state that failed so badly it no longer exists and then slams an actual ethnic russian for having the wrong opinions about said state lol
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Mar 29, 2017 21:40
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people now arguing itt that corporations are exactly the same as a soviet centrally planned economy lol
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Mar 29, 2017 21:42
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Brainiac Five posted:Well, given that you seem to think your line of descent gives you inherently truthful beliefs, I guess I'm just of inferior blood and can't match wits lmfao. my line of descent means jack poo poo but me having grown up in russia and having gone through it's systems may have something to do with you хуйло поганое
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Mar 29, 2017 21:45
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Coohoolin posted:лол, ты ватник you don't know what this word means, долбоеб
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Mar 29, 2017 21:48
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Coohoolin posted:я понимаю сто ето очен харашое, спасибо болшои. я всегда знал что ты просто ебашишь по клаве без одной мысли в голове когда постишь
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Mar 29, 2017 21:56
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i don't know about theoretical foundations of marx but africa did pretty poorly 1960 onwards with self professed marxist governments and now that a lot of them liberalised around 20 years ago they've done a lot better so that must say something about marxism
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Mar 30, 2017 20:21
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marxism is the poison that is destroying intellectualism and any chances it will take root in the wider population of the world
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Mar 30, 2017 21:56
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steinrokkan posted:Yeah, it's marxism, and not the crippling, oppressive centrist attitude of you cant change anything, leave thinking to your betters and occupy yourselves with being good consumers. thats not limited to intellectualism though
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Mar 30, 2017 22:10
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Cerebral Bore posted:Wait, now I'm confused, is Marxism supposed to be the irrelevant dead ideology or the insiduous conspiracy that secretly runs the world here? where is this mythical planet you live on where self professed intellectuals run the world lol
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Mar 30, 2017 22:17
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Cerebral Bore posted:Hey buddy, I just want to know which conspiracy theory we're running with here. it's the one where brainiac fives weak-rear end burns are actually ghostwritten by a rural nk farmer in a kolkhoz
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Mar 30, 2017 22:25
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it's very unfortunate that we cannot always get goods where they are needed but to say that capitalism has not reduced scarcity even in africa is pretty dumb imo
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Mar 31, 2017 20:56
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although socialism in the sense of the very basic idea of "work must be rewarded fairly" is very good and works well in a capitalist society, in a socialist society the important question always arises of who decides what is and isn't work. in capitalism this decision is done by the millions of participants seeking services they need. in a lot of socialist countries this seems to be accomplish by some central authority, and the fact that we had self professed communist peener saying all landlords are parasites to be exterminated in the other thread does not fill ordinary people with a lot of trust in the decision making abilities of such bodies with such stakes involved
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Mar 31, 2017 21:01
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Fiction posted:Actually I think you'll find that most people are on board with abolishing jobs that only serve to make money off of other people while providing no value yourself. yes they did that to jewish usurers for a very long time in the middle ages and it didn't exactly help with the whole economic prosperity thing
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Mar 31, 2017 21:07
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Moridin920 posted:Usurers do provide value to a capitalist economy. They provide necessary liquidity. but most people in the middle ages definitely supported bans on usury on account of the usurers making money off of the people they loaned to tho
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Mar 31, 2017 21:14
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RBC posted:That refers to factions within the party. Non-party candidates ran and won in soviet elections. It's a historically documented fact. just out of interest, how do you reconcile your belief that soviets had democratic institutions with the historically documented fact that millions of political opponents of the communist party were put into the gulags for many years on end throughout the unions history in that tiny tankie head of yours
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Mar 31, 2017 21:48
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OwlFancier posted:Presumably the same way you rationalise the US doing it? that's a very cosy false equivalency you have there anyhow i wasn't talking to you
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Mar 31, 2017 21:51
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RBC posted:I'm simply pointing out that many of the posters here know jack poo poo about the soviet union. They're just regurgitating propaganda. you are the only one itt regurgitating propaganda to such an extent that moridin, a known leftist and one of the most reasonable posters on this dead gay forum, has told you off for it lol also you haven't actually answered my question
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Mar 31, 2017 21:56
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RBC posted:Nobody is arguing with me. There's like four posts of random garbage that is completley unrelated to any point I made. "i learned from a dialectical materialism textbook how the USSR is supposed to function in theory and took this to actually be super representative of how it functioned in practice" RBC is it you, you are the garbage that is utterly slaughtering any attempt of modern leftism to appeal to normal people
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Mar 31, 2017 22:05
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RBC posted:How is that any different from a country dominated by two parties that are the same? 
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Mar 31, 2017 22:10
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| # ¿ May 6, 2024 09:26 |
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OwlFancier posted:I might be inclined to argue that that could actually suggest the USSR was better than the US. so much better in fact, the leadership of the country dissolved it voluntarily
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Mar 31, 2017 22:15
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