Is Communism good?

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Is Communism good? This poll is closed.
Yes	375	66.25%
No	191	33.75%
Total:	523 votes

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Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

I don't think that it is.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2017 09:49

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 09:06

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Flowers For Algeria posted:

Yes it is good.

I'm not convinced, could you elaborate?

# ¿ Jan 21, 2017 10:00

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

zxqv8 posted:

If I vote both yes and no, is that like not voting at all?

No, that means that you voted twice.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2017 10:13

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Kilroy posted:

Yeah central planning falls down mostly due to corruption and because the state can and inevitably will gently caress up the targets so you end up with the all shoelaces you could ever want, and no bread. Markets are usually good about not letting that happen.

The people making the stuff owning the stuff they use to make the stuff, is cool and good though. Hogge Wild I'm interested what you would think of the employees of a company splitting the vote with the shareholders over who sits on the board of directors?

I think that would depend on size of the company. Some small businesses could work fine, but I don't think that large multinationals would be any less corrupt. Eg. leftist mps aren't any more honest than conservative ones.

# ¿ Jan 21, 2017 10:44

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Ocean Book posted:

The money system is typically simultaneously extremely efficacious (capable) and extremely inefficient (wasteful) at utilizing resources. This is a tradeoff. Periodically, the money system stops being even efficacious due to a recession.

It's so loving stupid. 5 days before a recession, roads, factories, stores, consumers, resource gathering, etc etc all proceed at a steady reasonable pace. 5 days after a recession, all this activity grinds to a halt. Why? Did we run out of factories? labor? grain? steel? roads? No, we ran out of money. Money isn't a necessary part of the production of any good or service, it's only a signaling device. If you have a signaling device that works OK at best and totally fucks right out about 1/8 to 1/2 of the time, maybe your signaling system sucks.

What?

# ¿ Jan 22, 2017 13:46

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Spuckuk posted:

Agreed, with a caveat.

Anarcho-Communism removes property rights and private property. Problemo solved.

In this system who would decide which person works as a farmer and which person as a blogger?

# ¿ Jan 23, 2017 13:33

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

SSNeoman posted:

It's hard to do it, huh OP? Like you can't say "Is Bolshevikism good?" because people will laugh at you and you otherwise can't really point to communists advocating for ethnic cleansing. Unlike, say, the loving Nazis.

This must be so frustrating for you. The truth has to be in the middle! It just HAS to be!

I don't understand this post. Every communist country has genocided.

# ¿ Jan 24, 2017 10:07

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

gobbagool posted:

Sure you can keep any of the awesome consumer electronics brought to you by the communist world. That and your patch of ice and 3 potatos

you won't definitely have 3 potatoes you drat kulak

# ¿ Jan 24, 2017 17:54

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Why are the working conditions so awful in communist China's factories?

# ¿ Jan 24, 2017 18:39

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Flowers For Algeria posted:

America is feudalizin' by the minute.

Feudalism is a system where a lord pays his soldiers in land. I don't think that it's happening in America.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2017 05:06

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

So to protect workers' rights immigration should be stopped?

# ¿ Jan 25, 2017 14:49

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

White Rock posted:

What needs to be done is different from observing what is occurring.

Capital wants the workers here for cheap labor.
Workers in the host country are hurt by this competition, so they want it to stop.
Populists wanting to capitalize politically on this wants to align themselves with the workers.
Neo liberals wants to align themselves with companies, growth and free trade.

----

For a communist, it also depends on your outlook. If your an internationalist, immigration either does not matter or is a boon. They will twiddle their thumbs until capitalism crashes.

If you believe in that are beneficial nation states as a communist, building class conscious means the need for a shared material agenda. Since existing workers and migrant workers are in conflict, the globalist policies such as work immigration and open borders should be closed. Each nation must fight it's own class struggle is their view.

Maoism Third Worldism believes that the "third world" will rise up and liberate the rest with minimal purging.

Take your pick.

What are internationalists?

# ¿ Jan 25, 2017 15:23

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Bob le Moche posted:

If there truly is a difference in class interest between the middle class white citizen and the undocumented immigrant worker, but you decide to side with the former against the latter, then as a communist I must consider you my political opponent.

I hope not.

# ¿ Jan 25, 2017 16:28

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

Bob le Moche posted:

I understand this, which is why I'm actually engaging with your arguments and considering them seriously. Call it "middle class", "labour aristocracy", "petite bourgeoisie", or "first world proletariat", I'm not sure - but the argument is that this constitutes a separate class with distinct and conflicting interests from those of the third world proletariat and migrant workers, correct?

Then if that is the case, it might very well be that a communist movement defending the interests of the latter is impossible to build in the first world, the material conditions are just not right. However, I'm afraid that the movement which protects the interest of the former category against the latter is potentially a fascist one or at least one which leads to fascism. It might very well be that this is just what the conditions are and that a fascist takeover is inevitable in the first world. It certainly seems to be what is happening in the US and Europe right now. If this is what is going on then I will never align myself with it, and I will resist it despite the odds, doing my best to stand in solidarity with migrant workers, and oppose my own government in its imperialism, until conditions change.

I don't think this guy should have any problems or conflicts with migrant workers. He is being fooled by bourgeois media and politicians into believing that he does, in which case he should be assisted in his struggle and develop class consciousness.
If however, he actually does have objective interests which conflict with those of the migrant worker, as some people might argue, then personally I will stand in solidarity with the migrant worker against him.

Will your stand of solidarity consist of posting in D&D and eating falafel?

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ¿ Jan 25, 2017 16:47

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# ¿ Apr 28, 2024 09:06

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

hakimashou posted:

What's the difference between communists in TYOOL 2017 and people who believe in angels and fairies and stuff anyway?

Yeah, communists seem to be like the Jack Chick Christians who do no good deeds and just wait for the Rapture.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2017 05:25

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