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Is Communism good? This poll is closed. |
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| Yes |
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375 | 66.25% |
| No |
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191 | 33.75% |
| Total: | 523 votes | ||
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OwlFancier posted:Generally I believe anarchists like consensus decision making. That explains their stunning string of successes. "I propose that Somethingawful forums poster OwlFancier engage in a career path as a porno theater floor slopper. I have 5 votes for yaah and one for Nay. Congratulations OwlFancier, here's your mop and bucket, now go forth and slop, for the people!"
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Jan 23, 2017 17:43
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Cicero posted:I thought consensus based decision making had to be unanimous? And then anarchists wouldn't really believe in forcing someone to accept a decision like that anyway, right? You could be right? I thought there was a difference between "consensus" and "unanimous consensus". In any case, it's a p.dumb model that fits right in with the rest of the anarchist thought process
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Jan 23, 2017 17:53
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:How did the current porn mopper get his job? I assume that it was just piling up waiting for the local anachist decision apparatus to make an assignment
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Jan 23, 2017 18:22
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Shbobdb posted:Anarcho-Communism generally has pretty close ideological ties with Primitive Communism. Now I'm interested. The average trust fund anarchist would quickly starve if they had to farm for themselves, or any productive activity for that matter
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Jan 23, 2017 18:23
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Ormi posted:Out of thousands of fellow anarchists, I've not met a single one with a trust fund. That's more of a Marxist thing. Have you ever successfully planted a seed that yielded a mature plant?
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Jan 23, 2017 18:34
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Ormi posted:I was raised on an orchard A commercial scale orchard?
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Jan 23, 2017 19:01
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I mean the current one. The horror vision was someone would be assigned that job by vote. What system was used to assign the current guy doing it? probably applied for the job, or maybe had to do it as court appointed public service. clearly i've offended your sense of justice by laughing at internet anarchists, and for that I am truly sorry, sir
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Jan 23, 2017 20:02
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Shbobdb posted:I don't think too many people are arguing for anarcho-syndicalism anymore mostly because most people don't work in large factories anymore. And those that do work in industries amenable to syndicalism from a scale-perspective, those industries are driven by artificial demand (driven by sales/marketing as opposed to need) so they recognize that trying to set up a society based on those principles would deconstruct itself pretty quickly. that and in the first world, factory jobs are actually pretty good. I live near a GE factory, they are by far the best jobs in town with most mid career and later guys pulling in six figgies. I'm sure though that in the alt-universe where anarchism (of whatever flavor) is a good idea and not a fetish for weirdos, guys working 40 hours a week in a modern factory do much better than that, right?
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Jan 23, 2017 20:06
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Bob le Moche posted:Why would blogging even be a "job" under the dictatorship of the proletariat? Blogging also can just be this thing that you can do if you feel like it during the immense amount of free time you get after doing whatever short amount of highly-automated work is required of you to fulfill the basic needs of the collective. so how many extra perks does the toilet cleaner get? who decides that? what if he does a crummy job, do his perks get reduced by some amount? what if I don't make a mess in the toilet, should I have to do extra non-toilet cleaning work to support you disgusting monsters that can't figure out how to poo poo without it getting everywhere? jhfc, goons. it amazes me that you think some system that substitutes "or whatever" for money would ever work
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Jan 23, 2017 21:18
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Bob le Moche posted:I'm genuinely sorry that social relations between human beings that are not mediated through the market are so alien to you that you cannot even conceive of them. This is really sad and not actually your fault, for you are a product of capitalism and this is what it does to people. Yes, every time I want a dozen eggs I want to negotiate a fair amount of labor "or whatever" in trade, what a simple system that isn't at all 100% retarded, because, you see, we live in caves 10,000 years ago
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Jan 23, 2017 21:30
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Shbobdb posted:That isn't actually how primitive economies worked. Barter economies only appear after currency. so... currency predates barter. makes perfect sense. not to be a typical local, but I suppose you can give us some evidence of that?
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Jan 23, 2017 21:44
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Bob le Moche posted:Here's an article on the topic: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/02/barter-society-myth/471051/ what a perfect encapsulation of The ATlantic, and this whole moronic derail Economically Illiterate Magazine posted:Adam Smith said that quid-pro-quo exchange systems preceded economies based on currency, but there’s no evidence that he was right. or, you know, evidence that he was wrong either
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Jan 23, 2017 21:49
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Despera posted:Yes History has been kind to communism Communism, anarchism, primitivism, all great and successful ideologies that a certain subset of goons seem to think will solve their problems like that they can't get a date or fit through the door without turning sideways
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Jan 23, 2017 21:51
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Shbobdb posted:"Debt the First 5000 Years" by David Graeber would be the canonical text on the topic. So for a primitive subsistence culture gets by by stockpiling food and then eating it, each according to their need. seems like an effective alternative to our global economy. Now, where's my new iphone? My poor goddamned kids are both sporting iPhone 6s and that makes me sad
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Jan 23, 2017 21:53
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Bob le Moche posted:Notice how gobbagool so easily dismisses the research of anthropologists, sociologists, and historians because they don't fit the naive notions about pre-capitalist society that the bourgeoise has worked very hard to instill into him through business 101 textbooks and neoliberal think-thanks like the Adam Smith Institute. Sure, let's take the lessons learned from observing stone age and worse civilizations and pretend somehow that they apply to our modern global civilization. I mean, obviously I'm the stubborn idiot here. Did you finish reading "everything I need to know I learned in kindergarden"? Seems like that would be extremely your poo poo
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Jan 23, 2017 21:55
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OwlFancier posted:All are primarily criticisms of Capitalism and hypotheses for alternatives. they demand a solution like you demand that donald trump listen to you on whatever your pet issue is
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Jan 23, 2017 21:56
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Shbobdb posted:That's actually not how they worked. that's exactly what your article in the atlantic says about Iroquois Indians, did you not read what you petulantly demanded I read?
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Jan 23, 2017 21:57
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botany posted:there's actually a lot of evidence he was wrong, from current observations of uncontacted tribes to archaeological reconstruction of work flow in ancient societies. caroline humphrey, who also gets quoted in the ATL article, is one of the most respected scholars on the subject, by the way. funny, leftists always criticizing Adam Smith, but every single idea coming from the left about how to manage an economy always seems to end up with lots and lots of starving people. Weird, that! edit: sorry, forgot to state the shibboleth: communism does not fail, it can only BE failed
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Jan 23, 2017 21:58
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Shbobdb posted:Ah, so you also don't understand Adam Smith. Things are starting to make sense now. Please, by all means, share your understanding of Adam Smith and within context explain how totally awesome communism or anarchism or whatever dumb alternative you support is in contrast to capitalism.
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Jan 23, 2017 22:04
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OwlFancier posted:That... What? "Global capitalism demands a solution" is what I was responding to. Ineffective internet leftists are always "demanding" things just to see reality go in the exact opposite direction. I can see why you guys are mad all the time, i mean you go to all the trouble to come up with words, and the global economic system has the unmitigated gaul to just strait up ignore you like you're not even there
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Jan 23, 2017 22:16
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:If we had Communism maybe you'd be a better poster Nah, I am what I am, but i'd be in a position to decide who gets to post and who doesn't, which would in turn raise the quality dramatically
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Jan 23, 2017 22:18
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OwlFancier posted:I don't think you understand. oh, so you're either a freshman at college communist, or a middle aged angry-because-your neighbors-have-more-than-you communist. ok, sorry, I shouldn't have engaged
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Jan 23, 2017 22:20
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OwlFancier posted:What on earth are you on about? sorry, you seem like a serious fellow. How about this, since you've obviously thought at great length about the failings of capitalism. Can you explain why communism never actually works outside of internet forums or college debate classes? Bonus points if you can avoid the terms "eternal science" and "...didn't actually practice communism"
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Jan 23, 2017 22:26
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OwlFancier posted:Well, Communism does specifically refer to the final idealized society, and definitely nobody has managed that yet. so, communism is the perfect ideal that cannot be criticized because it's never actually been tried to your satisfaction. seems like a good thing to spend your life breathlessly defending on a dead gay comedy forum
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Jan 23, 2017 22:40
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OwlFancier posted:Depends how you define "single entity" really. If control of the "single entity" is properly distributed among everyone then that is surely preferable to the current approach, where the bulk of the power is concentrated into a few people who are rich enough to own everything. Holy poo poo no wonder you people got owned so hard, every time a communist posts a million people die of boredom
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Jan 24, 2017 00:38
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Extreme0 posted:You're not dead though. I'm not a communist, trucknuts
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Jan 24, 2017 13:49
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OwlFancier posted:
Or much else, it would appear
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Jan 24, 2017 13:49
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gohmak posted:With capitalism, you don't. if history has shown us one thing, it's that people would dramatically prefer to be subsistence farmers than to move to a city to work in a big smelly factory.
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Jan 24, 2017 14:51
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Bob le Moche posted:It doesn't matter how many posts on the internet reactionaries make about why commumism is bad, or how many billions and billions of people supposedly died of it. Oh, i get it, you're a gimmick, made to sound like a labor poster from 1893
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Jan 24, 2017 16:37
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White Rock posted:Communism isn't against the idea of personal property, just private property. You can "own" most things you already do, clothes, furniture, a dishwasher, you just can not own a house, a factory, a river or 5000 acres of forest. Communism isn't coming to take away your PS4. Sure you can keep any of the awesome consumer electronics brought to you by the communist world. That and your patch of ice and 3 potatos
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Jan 24, 2017 17:47
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Bob le Moche posted:Actually consumer electronics do not come from private R&D investment, but from state-funded research projects that were caused by communism. For example the US government funded a nuclear & space race with the intent of destroying the socialist economy by forcing them to keep up, and this led to the invention of many of the technological innovations that consumer electronics depend on today. Also, the internet was originally a DARPA project aimed at creating an information network that could withstand a nuclear attack from the USSR, so we wouldn't have the internet without communism. Many of the software that underlie platforms like Google and Apple is ripped from open source projects, a form of communism. Also, China had a communist revolution and that's why it ever industrialized and why capitalists are now able to invest in tech manufacturing there. Without chinese communism there would be no cheap electronics hardware today. You know, I had a roommate in college, you just reminded me of him. He was a jewish kid from Long Island who insisted that virtually every celebrity, politician, captain of industry, etc were Jewish, up to and including then then Governor of our State, Mario Cuomo.
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Jan 24, 2017 18:11
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Bob le Moche posted:I think it's hilarious that reactionaries think iPads are the trump card against communism. They are a luxury product that only a tiny fraction of the world's population has access to, they produce immense waste, and even smartphones are a thing that most people get because of job pressure and the accelerating and anxiety-inducing requirement to be constantly available and connected more than anything else. have your friends staged an intervention for you yet
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Jan 24, 2017 18:46
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Hogge Wild posted:Why are the working conditions so awful in communist China's factories? No, you see, because workers revel in the glory of working when it's not for "profit"
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Jan 24, 2017 18:46
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Bob le Moche posted:Foxconn is a multinational private corporation. China's economy is as capitalist as can be, but the ruling party calls itself the "communist party" for historical reasons. France is capitalist with a "socialist party" that implements austerity and privatization, America is an oligarchy but has a "democratic party". next you're going to tell me east germany was neither democratic nor a republic. what other mind blowing things did you learn in babby's first history class this semester?
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Jan 24, 2017 19:51
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TomViolence posted:Define feudalism. If feudalism is predatory landlordism by a moneyed elite with military support that lords over a class of proletarian subjects who sell their labour in order to pay rent to the people who own the houses they live in, I reckon there's quite a few capitalist nations regressing to feudalism right now. sure, I mean if you define capitalism as "everything I dont like" and communism as "fantastic stuff, all of it" then it's real easy to back into whatever your stupid point of view is
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Jan 24, 2017 22:22
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:You state capitalism as a recent development, and one which is characterized by by instability and crisis. Yet the post-WW2 era has exhibited the end of wars between great powers, drastic reductions in violent crime, the near complete elimination of famine in the globalized world, massive reductions in infant mortality, and rising incomes in much of the 3rd world. How has the recent rise of an unstable and chaotic worldwide capitalist system co-existed with massive global reductions in violence and poverty? You're arguing with a literal college freshman who just read Das Kapital. Give him some space, he'll discover a new outrage to be caremad about soon, maybe veganism or nuclear power (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 25, 2017 01:39
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OtherworldlyInvader posted:What are "reasonable amounts" for prices, and what consumer goods are being priced unreasonably? From a nearby big box store I can buy a dozen eggs for $1.08, 5lbs of flour for $2.65, a gallon of milk for $2.74, a shirt for $2.88, a pair of tennis shoes for $10.00, a pair of jeans for $16.77, and a 55" 1080p LED TV for $378.00. Are these prices reasonable? Was there any consumer product (no, AK-47s were not consumer products in USSR, only here) that the USSR or any other worker's paradise made better and more efficiently than in the west?
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Jan 25, 2017 21:13
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Hob_Gadling posted:vodka Good point! on topic, daughter got me a book for xmas called "Vodka Politics" im only about 50 pages in but super fascinating stuff about the history of vodka's role and influence on russian/soviet/russian politics
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Jan 25, 2017 22:31
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