|
Is Communism good? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Yes |
|
375 | 66.25% |
| No |
|
191 | 33.75% |
| Total: | 523 votes | ||
|
RBC posted:theres nothing john rawls writes about that is incompatible with communism and you're a dumbass The real world and its history are incompatible with communism. "John Rawls is my favorite" is not identical to "John Rawls is all that matters." So it's not important whether John Rawls' views are compatible with communism.
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2017 00:20
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 11, 2024 17:27 |
|
|
There are lots of books about communism that go into very detailed examples. Some good ones: The Gulag Archipelago The Great Terror Stalin: Court of the Red Tsar Gulag: A History Iron Curtain: The Crushing of Eastern Europe Mao's Great Famine Under the Loving Care of the Fatherly Leader Also, in general, the second half of the twentieth century is not kept secret. The outcomes in eastern vs western europe, the outcome in North Korea vs South Korea, China vs Japan. It's also not been kept secret what's gone on in Venezuela the past decade or so. As for the problems in Britain: it's current events, or see any of the Pissflaps polling posts in the UKMT for evidence of the damage Corbynismo is doing to all progressive forces there. "Communism wasn't so bad" is holocaust denial with a red coat of paint on it. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Mar 27, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2017 00:39
|
|
|
Pissflaps is a sage, but more to the point, he's invulnerable to ankle-biting personal attacks in this case, because he just posts polling data. As strong as the urge must be to attack the person rather than the argument, or the person rather than the facts, at the end of the day, Corbyn's performance is indefensible.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2017 06:10
|
|
|
BrainParasite posted:The few times Anarchy has been put into practice, things seem to have gone pretty ok until someone with a lot more military power decides to end things. There is no other way it could be.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2017 11:11
|
|
|
Panzeh posted:So, you've got the polling data saying that labor should be right-wing like when Tony Blair ran it, right? Labour wasn't "right wing" when Blair ran it. But they did a bunch of big polls actually, especially prominent ones in 1997, 2001, and 2005. Compare/contrast with his party's fortunes under its current leadership.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2017 12:00
|
|
|
Fiction posted:I'm pretty sure the labor theory of value has held up even into the model of 21st-century global capitalism. I've spent quite a bit of time in the communist far east actually. To the extent that a North Korean or Chinese believes he has it better off than his neighbors, we have a fresh indictment of communism. Not only has it destroyed lives and the good life for people who survived, but it has debased them into believing nonsense and lies. One of the most terrifying things a person can ponder, after having spent time in the PRC, is "what if it could have been like Taiwan or Hong Kong." The number of people affected makes the scale of the horror hard to comprehend.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2017 22:12
|
|
|
Denying, minimizing, or attempting to rationalize or justify the horrors of communism is denying, minimizing, or attempting to rationalize or justify the horrors of the holocaust, and for equally despicable motives.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2017 22:14
|
|
|
Fiction posted:Nah that's actually the far right line on things. Letting the far right be morally superior to you is not something to be proud of, at all.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2017 23:55
|
|
|
Even in places where communists failed to enact their gruesome plans, there was still often a lot of suffering and death as a result of the necessary resistance to their efforts. Pretty much the only thing that has ever been able to legitimize far-right politics is its opposition to genocidal communism. Another proud achievement to display with all the corpses I suppose. The harm communism has done is incalculable.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2017 01:43
|
|
|
Communism is worse than fascism, the worse parts of fascism like the police state were cribbed from communists.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2017 22:27
|
|
|
Flowers For Algeria posted:Huh, how weird, hakimashou doesn't consider mass murder to be the worse parts of fascism. They cribbed that from genocidal communism too When the Nazis took power in Germany, communists in Russia had already murdered more than ten million people. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Mar 29, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2017 23:30
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:I'm not sure the nazis were necessarily the bolshevik fan club. Heinrich Muller got his job as head of the gestapo in large part because of his expertise and admiration for communist secret police methods... the Nazis explicitly studied and imitated the communists in this regard. There were some Nazis who considered the mass murder of functionaries, professionals and intellectuals 'too bolshevik' but sadly didnt win the argument. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Mar 29, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2017 23:43
|
|
|
Cerebral Bore posted:Let's not give him more ideas, now. After all we're talking with someone who thinks that the poor widdle nazis would have been super good if it wasn't for those wily reds. The Nazis were just as bad as the communists, the problem is that we stopped with destroying the nazis. And the other problem is that people seem to think its somehow OK to apologize for or idolize to try to mitigate the genocidal crimes of the communists. Nazi loving degenerates are thankfully stamped out, but their identical counterparts on the communist side aren't.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2017 23:48
|
|
|
The Nazis weren't bad "because they were right wing," they were bad because they were genocidal and brutally repressive. Communists aren't bad "because they are left wing," they are bad because they are genocidal and brutally repressive. The stuff printed on their flags doesn't make a communist in 2017 different from a neo-Nazi in any way that matters. Its the same people, deep down.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2017 23:58
|
|
|
The debate is over to the same extent the debate about the Nazis is over. You'll have some people who refuse to admit they were bad, but everyone else has figured it out. The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on. Look to Britain and May vs Corbyn.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2017 04:10
|
|
|
Flowers For Algeria posted:Lol, massive genocide, and in particular genocide on the basis of race, was not invented by the Soviet Union. In fact there are many more well-established capitalist genocides organised with modern tools that the Nazis used as inspiration. This is holocaust denial with a red coat of paint on it. There is no excusing or mitigating communist mass murder. "Other people did it too" doesnt excuse the Nazis or the Communists or anyone else. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 07:27 on Mar 30, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2017 07:25
|
|
|
steinrokkan posted:The difference, hakimashou, is that Nazism takes genocide as its foundational principle, and proceeds from there. It can't exist without genocide. With Communism mass violence is an original addition by some divergent strains to the ideological basis, but objectively not a necessary one. Hitler's manifesto doesn't plan for genocide any more overtly than Marx's, but it is the inevitable result of either one's depraved ideas being put into action. The Red Mein Kampf isn't any less despicable just because it's 'red.' The Nazis "seized the means of production" before mass-murdering the people they hated just like communists do. The differences between a communist and a Nazi are purely incidental, both are equally debased and despicable.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2017 11:47
|
|
|
Is this hallucination about the "retreat of capitalism across the western world" a testable hypothesis? Like, would right wing governments in the UK and US and surging right wing nationalist movement across europe be evidence it was true or evidence it wasn't true?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2017 04:57
|
|
|
Typo posted:for one you can elect someone like trump or bernie sanders, whereas under cccp those guys would never have even made it onto a ballot Because they'd have been murdered by the communists along with millions of other people.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2017 22:44
|
|
|
linoleum floors posted:Oh right. This is a good thing though, you don't want people seriously considering going back to Nazis or Communists.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2017 22:56
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:I might argue that in a Capitalist society, there might be some kind of... push from the people with power to keep Communists out of power? In any civilized society or society with an interest in protecting the lives of its people there is a push to keep genocidal communists out of power.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2017 23:10
|
|
|
RBC posted:Everyone in the social sciences studies marxism in university because it's a widely applicable critical theory. That gives you zero additional credibility. Such a waste of human potential 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2017 23:10
|
|
|
RBC posted:Being educated is a waste of human potential? Misspending an education studying marxist critical theory in the social sciences is a waste of human potential I mean.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2017 23:13
|
|
|
There's no difference between Nazis and Communists. Just different colored flags, incidental differences in which people they hate and murder. Same people deep down.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 1, 2017 00:41
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Don't you support the death penalty? What can I say, it's complicated. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3811398
|
|
#
¿
Apr 1, 2017 00:50
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Are you sure it doesn't just make you a miniature nazicommunist? Yeah I am sure.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 1, 2017 00:59
|
|
|
Benjamin Arthur posted:States killing their own citizens is bad. Unless its a capitalist state disproportionately killing a racial minority. Then its complicated. If you say so!
|
|
#
¿
Apr 1, 2017 01:13
|
|
|
That is a really good effort post. Communists would respond to something like that by putting you in a concentration camp or just killing and disappearing you.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 1, 2017 21:13
|
|
|
Fiction posted:More open than the 1996 elections when we intervened to fix the election and stop the populace from reelecting the communists. Of course the revisionists in this thread who want to pretend communism is some insane genocide philosophy would paper over this fact. It's not revisionism to point out that Naziism and Communism are insane evil ideologies of murder and genocide. It's the main notable thing about them. It's revisionism to claim they aren't. Evil, sick, and ugly revisionism.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 2, 2017 04:44
|
|
|
"capitalism" isnt even an ideology, its just the normal way people do things. Part of the mental illness of communism is that it lumps everything not-communist together as some kind of rival ideology. It's one of the reasons they are such brutal murderers. Seeing someone in 2017 with a hammer and sickle isnt any different from seeing someone in 2017 with a swastika. Hearing someone say "i am a marxist communist" isn't any different from hearing someone say "I am one of Hitler's Nazis." hakimashou fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Apr 2, 2017 |
|
#
¿
Apr 2, 2017 05:16
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 11, 2024 17:27 |
|
|
Capitalism consists of all motives and reasons other than the motives and reasons of communists. When communists commit genocide, brutal repression, or murder it is ok, because they are doing it for communist reasons and for communist motives, and not capitalist ones. There was a time when this thinking was serious and cost many good people their lives.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 2, 2017 06:23
|
|