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VirtualStranger posted:I think the bigger problem is that it shows that the relentless liberal media hysteria about Trump being some kind of secret manchurian candidate is actually having an effect on people in the real world. There needs to be some way to combat this narrative because it's just as stupid and counterproductive as the "Obama is a secret muslim kenyan infiltrator" poo poo. The narratives are completely different because the "putin ratfucked democrats to elect trump" narrative isn't patently absurd. Who are you white knighting here? Putin? Trump? Marx's ghost?
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Jan 22, 2017 05:40
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R. Guyovich posted:who are you someone that knows what identity politics is and how focusing on it like you're doing is dumb or have you been in a coma for the last year?
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Jan 22, 2017 05:40
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Lets just assume for a moment that this Russia poo poo actually leads to something and gets him impeached or otherwise unable to govern effectively. Then what? They have no plan for dealing with Pence and the rest of the ghouls in the GOP. The forces that Trump represents are not some insidious foreign influence, they are a deeply American phenomenon. Any organized resistance to the Trump administration needs to operate with that in mind.
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Jan 22, 2017 05:41
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R. Guyovich posted:right, thats most of it. but as we've seen there's some vestiges of red baiting that can be mobilized if we aren't careful. we need to think strategically is all absolutely red baiting concerns me but i'm also fine with any narrative that delegitimizes the current administration and makes it more difficult for them to achieve their goals. if it has the effect of undermining the public's confidence in bourgeois political parties and bourgeois "democratic" processes and makes people more open to radicalization then even better.
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Jan 22, 2017 05:41
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Glad to see jeffersonclay is still doing his thing
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Jan 22, 2017 05:41
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i still dont know what idpol is because the definition seems to change from person to person
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Jan 22, 2017 05:41
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Gringostar posted:someone that knows what identity politics is and how focusing on it like you're doing is dumb do you know what identity politics is
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Jan 22, 2017 05:42
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paranoid randroid posted:i still dont know what idpol is because the definition seems to change from person to person it's anything that you can identify i think
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Jan 22, 2017 05:42
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the irony of course being that it is impossible to identify what exactly an identity politic is
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Jan 22, 2017 05:43
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i cast "identify politics"
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Jan 22, 2017 05:43
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VirtualStranger posted:Lets just assume for a moment that this Russia poo poo actually leads to something and gets him impeached or otherwise unable to govern effectively. Then what? They have no plan for dealing with Pence and the rest and the rest of the ghouls in the GOP. If they impeach trump his death cult will consume the entire republican base while trump throws fireballs on Twitter until he has a massive stroke
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Jan 22, 2017 05:43
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paranoid randroid posted:i cast "identify politics" i'm down to my last few charges on my idpol wand
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Jan 22, 2017 05:44
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VirtualStranger posted:Lets just assume for a moment that this Russia poo poo actually leads to something and gets him impeached or otherwise unable to govern effectively. Then what? They have no plan for dealing with Pence and the rest and the rest of the ghouls in the GOP. Lol, "what's neutering or removing Trump going to do for us?" Uh, win us two houses of congress in 2 years.
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Jan 22, 2017 05:44
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jarofpiss posted:absolutely red baiting concerns me but i'm also fine with any narrative that delegitimizes the current administration and makes it more difficult for them to achieve their goals. if it has the effect of undermining the public's confidence in bourgeois political parties and bourgeois "democratic" processes and makes people more open to radicalization then even better.  focusing on russia and putin is dumb this goes for people hand wringing about redbating and people that are redbating since it serves no purpose other than to dive a wedge through resistance to trump's administration
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Jan 22, 2017 05:44
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good thing i found this wand of MattY's Acid Thinkpiece
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Jan 22, 2017 05:45
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People will get bored of the Russian narrative once the novelty of Trump becoming president passes and millions of TV watchers enter the acceptance phase of grieving for the country. Even with investigations and leaks once the public realizes nothing is actually going to happen it'll fade into the background more than it already has.
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Jan 22, 2017 05:45
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Ace of Baes posted:People will get bored of the Russian narrative once the novelty of Trump becoming president passes and millions of TV watchers enter the acceptance phase of grieving for the country. Even with investigations and leaks once the public realizes nothing is actually going to happen it'll fade into the background more than it already has. you know my instinct is to agree with this but i kept thinking the novelty of trump was going to wear off literally all last year and here we are
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Jan 22, 2017 05:47
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youd think that the Russia thing would have faded months ago, but Trump appears to be loving pathological when it comes to Putin i dont think hes a puppet or a manchurian candidate or w/e, i think he just puts a ton of importance in Putin-senpai noticing him and also has a long track record of sleazy dealings in the sleaziest market of them all
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Jan 22, 2017 05:48
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Gringostar posted:
The communist resistance to Trump's administration is tiny and awful anyway. Let's not throw away the by far most salient argument against trump's legitimacy because it might irritate a few internet communists.
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Jan 22, 2017 05:49
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paranoid randroid posted:youd think that the Russia thing would have faded months ago, but Trump appears to be loving pathological when it comes to Putin also the piss hotel thing will never not be hilarious
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Jan 22, 2017 05:50
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JeffersonClay posted:The communist resistance to Trump's administration is tiny and awful anyway. Let's not throw away the by far most salient argument against trump's legitimacy because it might irritate a few internet communists. "Ruskies!" isn't the most salient argument against trump when a majority of americans want a better relationship with russia
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Jan 22, 2017 05:51
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JeffersonClay posted:The communist resistance to Trump's administration is tiny and awful anyway. Let's not throw away the by far most salient argument against trump's legitimacy because it might irritate a few internet communists. or we could focus on trump being a shitlord if he's a communist puppet shitlord who cares, and if calling him a communist shitlord pisses communists off they need to get over it because the important thing is that he's a shitlord
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Jan 22, 2017 05:52
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Jesus christ, did sean spicer's press conference notes rub off on your dick?
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Jan 22, 2017 05:52
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Gringostar posted:also the piss hotel thing will never not be hilarious him sitting in a chair, doing that furious glowering face that he seems to think conveys gravitas, watching a couple of Russian sex workers take a piss all over a bed perfect
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Jan 22, 2017 05:53
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As for the Dem party, if they spend the next 4 years trying to launch attacks at Donald based on stuff he says or dumb or offensive (but not meaningfully harmful to large groups) things he does, rather than his policies while also promoting Democratic socialist/populist alternatives they will not only lose, but the party will probably fracture/crumble.
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Jan 22, 2017 05:53
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JeffersonClay posted:Jesus christ, did sean spicer's press conference notes rub off on your dick? you really shouldn't use a mad libs card to post
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Jan 22, 2017 05:53
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Ace of Baes posted:As for the Dem party, if they spend the next 4 years trying to launch attacks at Donald based on stuff he says or dumb or offensive (but not meaningfully harmful to large groups) things he does, rather than his policies while also promoting Democratic socialist/populist alternatives they will not only lose, but the party will probably fracture/crumble. the republicans, in general, are much happier if democrats are talking about whatever zany thing trump has done this time instead of healthcare or social security imo, especially as bills start to appear.
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Jan 22, 2017 05:54
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Gringostar posted:or we could focus on trump being a shitlord Hammer and sickle Trump isn't calling him a communist, it's calling him a puppet of KGB shitlord Vladimir Putin. No one is going to rehabilitate the image of the USSR amongst the US electorate. Using it to tar trump is not an attack on international socialism.
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Jan 22, 2017 06:01
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Al-Saqr posted:the difference is that a million iraqi's died, which means very little to the average american, but with Trump 20 million will lose their health insurance, which matters slightly more to the average joe. Your fatal flaw is assuming those people correctly place the blame for their lives getting worse. History tells us they won't.
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Jan 22, 2017 06:01
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paranoid randroid posted:i still dont know what idpol is because the definition seems to change from person to person guess it doesn't exist then, no need to think anymore about that.
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Jan 22, 2017 06:04
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VirtualStranger posted:The forces that Trump represents are not some insidious foreign influence, they are a deeply American phenomenon. Any organized resistance to the Trump administration needs to operate with that in mind. The forces that Trump represents are universal under liberal capitalist democracy, that's why you see anti-elite/establishment feeling sweeping the globe in one way or another (Trump, Brexit, Syriza, Italy, more to come next year in France and Germany) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkm2Vfj42FY There's no organized Left for the workers to turn to after their reaming at the hands of capital, so the Populist Right is the only game in town that even pretends to offer a salve to their wounds.
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Jan 22, 2017 06:07
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Please don't poo poo up my beautiful thread friends.
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Jan 22, 2017 06:11
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Pushing identity politics is a pretty bad idea for women and non-whites because I think white men have proven throughout history that they usually win even when they aren't united by their common racial and sexual identity. I mean what do we call thousands of years at the top of the societal food chain? A coincidence? Or a predilection towards doing sociopathy and violence better than anyone else?
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Jan 22, 2017 06:13
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yeah women should be quiet imo
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Jan 22, 2017 06:18
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hot take: revolutionary politics are identity politics because the American capitalist hegemony is founded on the commodification and brutalization of racial and gender based groups
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Jan 22, 2017 06:23
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paranoid randroid posted:yeah women should be quiet imo wow i never knew you were a muslim paranoid randroid posted:hot take: revolutionary politics are identity politics because the American capitalist hegemony is founded on the commodification and brutalization of racial and gender based groups it's actually because any politics not based on class can be controlled and used by the ruling class for their own ends, by obfuscating the situation, saying that a demographically representative ruling class is equality, etc.
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Jan 22, 2017 06:24
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Women and minorities saying "vote for women and minorities or you're a racist" lost them the election, maybe they should try a different strategy to convince white men to work with them. I dont know what the winning strategy is but I hope someone figures it out.Al-Saqr posted:the difference is that a million iraqi's died, which means very little to the average american, but with Trump 20 million will lose their health insurance, which matters slightly more to the average joe. They didnt complain that much a decade ago before romneycare became law Exactly! \/ got any sevens has issued a correction as of 06:37 on Jan 22, 2017 |
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Jan 22, 2017 06:28
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It's not as if they're losing GOOD health insurance. It's obamacare, with the high monthly payments and the deductible that means you have to pay thousands of dollars before you get any kind of treatment so you don't get covered anyway. Depending on whether Trump actually fulfills his promise to retain popular parts of the legislation, and replace it with something half-decent (even if literally is vouchers/a big pile of money), he could come out of it looking pretty good.
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Jan 22, 2017 06:31
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paranoid randroid posted:hot take: revolutionary politics are identity politics because the American capitalist hegemony is founded on the commodification and brutalization of racial and gender based groups It's too bad that identity politics can so easily be exclusionary, indeed are designed to be exclusionary. Feminism? Don't you mean White Feminism? Black Lives Matter? Well I'm not black so.... Immigrant Rights? I'm not an immigrant... Poor? Well you are white, so you are still privileged. Not LBGQT? Well you must not care then. Ad nausium. ID Pol is inherently exclusionary. Without common identity, it's nothing but a distraction from those that control the lever's of power the rich. Donald Trump is only superficially different from Hillary Clinton.
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Jan 22, 2017 06:31
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:It's too bad that identity politics can so easily be exclusionary, indeed are designed to be exclusionary. Feminism? Don't you mean White Feminism? Black Lives Matter? Well I'm not black so.... Immigrant Rights? I'm not an immigrant... Poor? Well you are white, so you are still privileged. Not LBGQT? Well you must not care then. Ad nausium. i dont understand a word of this post
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Jan 22, 2017 06:35
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