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Is anyone actually excited about the M8 GTE in real life?
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Jul 21, 2017 00:16
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 22:40 |
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I just can't hyped about a big personal luxury coupe as a race car. I know Aston does it with the Vantage, and I can't explain why that works for me while the M6 GTLM and M8 GTE feel like somebody tried to make a yacht into a cigarette boat. As a marketing exercise, it feels weird, too- I mean, is a retired surgeon in the market for a $100,000 luxo-coupe going to care about the bragging rights that come from racing compared to, say, a prospective M4 buyer? It feels confused, like most of BMW's decisions these days.
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Jul 21, 2017 02:32
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Cygni posted:they want to market those huge luxury sedan barges (they arent coupes, gently caress you BMW/Mercedes) cause they are expensive as hell and have fantastic margins. the new 8 is gonna start at like 85k+. they are also selling well, eating up a lot of market share to old rich people. in a series thats performance balanced anyway, its probably smart to run what you want to sell. 2-door coupes are actually way out of favor right now and Mercedes is contemplating killing off either the SL or S-Class Coupe because of the redundancy in an overall small, niche market. That news came out right before BMW announced the revival of the 8-Series and a lot of people are wondering what kind of demand there actually is for another big, expensive luxury coupe. You're right that the BoP and ballasting is going to make the size of the car somewhat irrelevant (the M6 GTLM is the lightest car in its class, despite looking enormous) but the whole thing feels like a really bizarre decision. If racing was a powerful marketing tool in this niche then yeah, I could understand it I guess, but did racing the F13 in two different classes in multiple series help its sales or perceived desirability at all? Not much, because the 4-door Gran Coupe outsold both the 2-door M6 variants combined. It was bad enough that BMW ceased production of the 2-door variants a year before the GC. If anything, I wish they'd dropped the V8TT into the i8. Yeah it's the wrong engine in the wrong orientation, but it's not like they didn't waiver the V8 engine in the Z4 GTE or the transaxle in the M6 GLTM in past years. And while BMW may be trying to sweep the whole i-Division under the rug, it would've added a spark of life to a car that nobody's talked much about since 2015.
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Jul 21, 2017 04:19
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It's really shocking how fast LMP1 fell apart. Just two years ago it was the arguably the pinnacle of motorsports development and seemed like it was thriving and ushering in a new age of high-performance hybrid sports cars.
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Jul 28, 2017 02:43
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harperdc posted:And yeah without Dieselgate Audi would still be in WEC, Porsche wouldn't be leaving the WEC, and VW would probably be in WRC as well. They need all of that cash (altogether those three programs are what, easily more than half a billion euro a year?) and can stay in racing with Formula E, which, yeah, they'd probably still be going there. I think Ferdinand Piëch being forced out at VAG probably would've killed the double Audi/Porsche WEC programs regardless. LMP1-H is an engineer's dream and I can imagine that he was the main driver for VAG to invest effectively twice over in hybrid development. Had Dieselgate not happened, I still think Martin Winterkorn and Wolfgang Porsche would've pushed Audi into F1 to compete with their archrival Mercedes and Porsche would've stayed in LMP1-H to protect their legacy of endurance racing. And of course Volkswagen itself would no doubt still be in the WRC. LMP1-H had the misfortune to be hit by the ouster of Piëch, plus Dieselgate, and then F1 starting to get their poo poo back together after lean years of terrible racing and Bernie Ecclestone mismanagement, and IMSA not only surviving the merger but making the right decisions to thrive. It was a perfect coincidence of events to take it from the arguable pinnacle of motorsport in 2015 to walking dead in 2018. Also CotA makes for bad racing and I'm not sad to see it go
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Jul 31, 2017 03:37
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In other IMSA news, Cooper MacNeil continues to be a big blubbering baby with a poopy diaper
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Jul 31, 2017 22:59
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I still think Audi is a credible possibility. Audi Sport bigwigs have been floating around several paddocks this year and they've openly expressed interest. The thought was that they'd team up with Joest again, but even without their organization, they still have a lot of pieces already in place to launch a program. They still have their relationship with Dallara for the chassis, several successful customer teams from endurance racing the R8, and a GT3-spec V10 ready to go. It wouldn't take much to get it off the ground.
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Aug 5, 2017 15:47
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Speaking of FCA, Alfa Romeo would be a great addition to DPi and it would help the attempted revival of the brand in the US. Adapt the Ferrari 488 GT3's turbo eight cylinder into a turbo six, so you can evoke the roadgoing Giulia Quadrifoglio, and then wrap it in gorgeous Alfaesque bodywork. But they'd have to build the team and organization from scratch, more or less, which is WAY more effort than FCA seems willing to put into non-Ferrari racing these days.
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Aug 5, 2017 20:45
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drgitlin posted:I dunno. I was hanging out with them at Formula E and Lime Rock over the last few weeks and that's not the impression I got. njsykora posted:If Audi was planning a DPi program I doubt Joest would've gone in with Mazda.
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Aug 6, 2017 05:01
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3GT has looked about as uninspiring as all of Lexus' road cars the whole year, so they have brand synergy going for them at least Also Sims/Auberlen is a nasty driver combo now that the M6 GTLM is competitive and mostly not breaking
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Aug 28, 2017 03:54
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harperdc posted:Let's not forget there's a decent chance 3GT may disappear inside the calendar year as a result of Gentilozzi loving over Ryan Hunter-Reay many years ago. Gotta wonder what will happen with the RC-F GT3 if that happens. The factory backing for them and Acura is over after this year so any team running the car next year will be much more on their own. MSR Acura can easily deal with it, but the RC-F is not going to be a very appealing platform to prospective entrants if it ends up an orphan with no factory money and knowledge to prop a team up.
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Aug 28, 2017 23:24
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harperdc posted:From the rumblings I've heard it really doesn't sound like Shank wants to go back to a privateer setup after this. They were another tender in the Acura DPi, though it's obvious why Penske got it (because it's Penske) but you have to think they'll take a shot at GTE or another factory program. They just confirmed today that they're running the NSXes as a privateer team next year: http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/msr-planning-2018-return-with-acura/
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Aug 29, 2017 04:15
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Oh, also, it looks like LMP1H's implosion is going to take the whole WEC with it: http://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/wec-poised-for-reduced-schedule-possible-winter-calendar-shift/
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Aug 30, 2017 23:22
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harperdc posted:The only time the works/customer teams co-mingling worked recently was Group C, when Porsche produced loads of 956/962s and customers could pick them up easily (think GT3s now). There were other factories as well but between crashes and failures, the mosquito fleet of private Porsches would still be competitive. (A private DPi in this manner is what IMSA is missing now, that or better balance with the P2 spec cars). The LMP2 cars are balanced pretty well with the DPis, excluding WTR of course. JDC-Miller Motorsports especially has looked very strong in the late stages of this season.
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Sep 1, 2017 03:50
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I still think VAG's heavy investment in WEC was Ferdinand Piëch's influence. That kind of drat-it-all spending on cutting edge technology is exactly the kind of thing you'd expect from a guy who said "I'm going to make my middle-market car company build a luxury sedan that can keep the interior 72 degrees while doing 186 mph on a 122-degree day, and I don't give a gently caress what it costs, oh also I'm going to build a new factory for it with hardwood floors" and then actually did it, especially being a former engineer who cut his teeth on absolutely dominant, legendary race cars like the Quattro and 917. It really made very little sense from just about any standpoint, but by god was it a great era of racing Also, in IMSA news, Stevenson Motorsports is shutting down at the end of the season, which is a huge loss. They've been competitive in pretty much every class they've raced in and already won once with the R8 LMS in GTD and twice with the Camaro GT4 in CTSC this year. And they were always some the friendliest guys in the paddock in my experience. It's the first really lovely development about the 2018 season.
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Sep 2, 2017 03:33
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Schlesische posted:It was, but the Phaeton was a swansong "gently caress it lets push all the boundaries and make the best car I can possibly think of" that eventually became the Veyron. Porsche would still be around, for sure, but even if Dieselgate hadn't happened, Audi would still have left the WEC for Formula 1. Piëch hated Bernie Ecclestone and thought F1 was basically just a canned show, and openly said that he was never going to field a VAG team while Ecclestone was running it. Then he got forced out after his coup attempt, and the VAG board immediately said "Why did he have two teams in the WEC? There's a bigger profit from F1!" and were basically in the process of signing the paperwork to buy Toro Rosso when Dieselgate came down on them. So LMP1H might have gone on longer as just Porsche-Toyota, but given that Audi was basically the WEC's marketing arm with all the millions they spent on promotions, journalist hospitality, signs, videos, etc., we still would've probably would've seen the LMP1H star fade regardless in the face of a resurgent Ecclestone-free F1 with a furious Mercedes-Audi rivalry and the ascension of the DPi spec in IMSA. I hope someone writes a Robert A. Caro-type book about Dieselgate.
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Sep 2, 2017 13:58
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6 Hours of Mexico was really dull and the talk around the revised '18-'19 WEC schedule was more interesting than anything that happened during the race
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Sep 5, 2017 03:00
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Basticle posted:I can't wait for 2019 when they abandon it. I can't wait for a full-page ad in the back of Autoweek celebrating their 3rd--in-class result at one of the Le Manses next year
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Sep 13, 2017 00:11
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So starting in 2019, Michelin is taking over as the primary tire sponsor of IMSA. That means spec Michelins in every class except GTLM, which will still be open, and the Continental Tire Sportscar Challenge will become the Michelin Tire Sportscar Challenge. It sounds like Continental lobbied hard to keep IMSA's business, but this is likely part of IMSA's larger plan to more closely align their regulations with Europe. It kind of sucks because Continental's been a good sponsor, but their competition tires always seem to be a step short of Michelin or Dunlop and it puts any LMP2 team trying to run in DPi at a disadvantage when they have to adjust to different, worse tires.
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Sep 20, 2017 23:26
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orange juche posted:On the other hand when the Petit Le Mans comes around in 2019, I'll be able to enter to win a free set of Michelins for my car when I go to the race. They're more expensive and better than the Continentals that were on offer last year/this year. I'm more concerned about the free hat, personally. Continental ones are acceptably stylish for wearing at the track or lawn mowing or whatever and breathe nicely from the mesh back. Michelin hats always look like they made a clerical error in the 1970s and accidentally ordered eight million and are still trying to get rid of them
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Sep 21, 2017 00:28
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Although the Continental girls always made me and my girlfriend roll our eyes so I'm glad I can now look forward to the sensual curves and lustrous eyes of the Michelin Man
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Sep 21, 2017 00:30
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harperdc posted:He's already there because the GTLM works teams all use Michelins. I know, he gave me a high-five at the Glen this year. I just couldn't help but delight at the thought of a dozen voluptuous Bibendums seductively telling me to try turning my nuts on the virtual tire change game
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Sep 21, 2017 23:47
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I find myself looking more forward to 2018 than seeing how 2017 wraps up, given how big the points spreads are in all three classes. Very little chance of any upsets at Petit Le Mans. Still, 2017 has been a great year of racing overall. In related news, there is a lot of firepower converging on DPi right now. Word on the street is that Felipe Nasr is going to be Dane Cameron's replacement at AXR and Ollie Jarvis might be joining Mazda Team Joest next year in place of Joel Miller or Tom Long. I'm hoping they retain Spencer Pigot as the fourth driver on their squad instead of another ex-Audi LMP1 driver, even though the caliber of competition next year makes grabbing the platinum guys an obvious move.
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Sep 27, 2017 01:05
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harperdc posted:Isn't Pigot all-but confirmed in an IndyCar ride next year? Yeah, he's going to be in the 20 Ed Carpenter car. So he won't be a shot for full season with Mazda. I hadn't heard Pigot signed a deal in Indy. That's good for him. He often looked a lot more impressive in the last year of the Lola Mazda prototype than the fulltime drivers. I didn't talk about Penske because I hadn't heard anything new lately beyond the old Helio Castroneves-Ricky Taylor superteam rumors.
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Sep 27, 2017 11:57
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iospace posted:Are they diverting all efforts to the DPi effort? Or will they be running in both Prototype and GTD in IMSA? No, Prototypes only. They're not going to run any more ATS-V.Rs anywhere, and they're not going to sell them to anyone either.
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Sep 28, 2017 23:08
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I'm disappointed that AXR did not put Nasr and Albuquerque in the same car. Imagine how much more convenient it would be to refer to the car as simply "The Felipes", ala "The Dylans" (Murcott and Machavern) in CTSC. And yes I know they're not spelled the same in either case
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Sep 28, 2017 23:51
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harperdc posted:Eh it's sports car racing. There's no asterisks if you actually win Le Mans. That first year Toyota came with the hybrid, they were supposed to be dipping their toes back in, but all of a sudden found themselves trying to be the ones to challenge Audi after Peugeot pulled out last minute. Does that get an asterisk for Audi? Or what about the Bentley years a decade ago. Only car in their class, Audi pulls the factory for two years to let their VAG stablemate use their toys, paint them green, and get a win. I would argue that Audi's fame/infamy comes from the sheer number of wins, not any individual win. So a single easier-than-normal win doesn't have a very large effect on their legacy. That may have been a gimme, but they proved their mettle more than enough times against legitimate contention. And really, nobody cares about Bentley's win. They may have been a technical winner and can boast if they choose, but it's well known that it was an Audi underneath and I highly doubt any prospective buyer ever looked at a Continental GT and thought "Le Mans-winning engineering!". The whole exercise was a weird cul-de-sac for VAG. I'd even argue that nobody would care about Mazda's single win if not for the fact that they were a huge underdog, and the 787B was instantly iconic as a racecar with its soon-to-be-banned rotary weirdness and distinctive livery. It's not really fair to Toyota to give them the asterisk, given how much that downplays the sheer difficulty of actually winning overall at Le Mans, but I'd agree that it will come off as a fairly hollow win in the history books unless the 2018 race is some kind of cutthroat, to-the-finish-line epic battle.
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Oct 3, 2017 23:39
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financially racist posted:like, we almost had an lmp2 overall win this year The only reason we almost had an LMP2 win this year is because the constant pushes for more performance in the LMP1-Hs destroyed the reliability of the cars, which was a function of all the competition in the class that no longer exists. Nobody thinks Toyota is guaranteed to win, but they risk further humiliation and expense if they lose again, and a victory that people will consider more about attrition than achievement if they do manage to pull it off, so is there really a point to it? TGR is literally debating this exact thing right now, so it's not like it's some kind of insane idea that maybe they have little to gain and more to lose by running another year
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Oct 4, 2017 01:26
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Looks like we might get Land Motorsport full-time in GTD next year, which is a welcome bit of good news for Audi fans with Stevenson shutting down: http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/land-planning-full-season-gtd-effort/
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Oct 5, 2017 01:43
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WindyMan posted:I bet a part of Ricky's decision to move away from WTR was to prove he can still be a winner outside of the family business. As we all know, you don't want to be stuck racing for your father your entire life. Ricky Taylor has raced for other teams before so it's not an unprecedented move. I think the bigger thing to prove is that he can still win races without a clearly superior car (probably) and more preseason test time than anyone else. He's certainly a really, really good driver, but he might actually be the weakest link on a team as stacked with talent as Acura Team Penske. Not to mention having to go up against AXR's ridiculous lineup of Barbosa/Nasr and Curran/Albuquerque in the proven Cadillac. drat, it's going to be good next year.
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Oct 12, 2017 00:12
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Cygni posted:Racer mentioned that WTR is after van der Zander or Marcel Fassler to go with JT, either way thats another great team. Joest is supposedly after Oli Jarvis and Earl Bamber, with Rene Rast doing the enduors. And ESM is gonna have Pipo full time, and I imagine they will probably split Pipo and Dalziel which is kind of a shame. That would be a monster car. I would be shocked if Bamber left Porsche GT racing. All the rumors I heard were that Porsche was going to put him and Nick Tandy back in the seats of the 911 RSRs, since they were such a strong pair before they got brought up into the LMP program. Van der Zande seems like a more obvious choice for Mazda due to Troy Flis' relationship with the brand. But who the hell knows at this point
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Oct 12, 2017 03:51
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I'm pretty disappointed about how much of Fuji got red flagged or safety car-ed, but the foggy conditions were obviously unsuitable for racing so I can't blame the WEC for the call. The cool thing about rain racing is how much it amplifies and draws attention to all the differences in the cars, driver talents, tire manufacturers, etc. so you can get some really wild racing and unusual results, like when Nick Tandy beat all the prototypes at Petit Le Mans in a 911 RSR, so I was really hoping things cleared up enough to keep going. I think that Toyota's silence this week regarding 2018 is probably not a good sign. I can't believe they wouldn't have made some kind of decision by now and, were they going to stick around, I would think they'd have wanted to announce it at their home track to their home crowd.
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Oct 15, 2017 18:15
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This year's Rolex 24 was super exciting and 2018 is going to blow it out of the water If Joest Mazda somehow gets their first win I will sacrifice kine and kin alike at the altar of John Doonan
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Oct 25, 2017 03:53
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orange juche posted:Riley hadn't made a carbon fiber car since the early 2000s and their lack of experience shows. Multimatic luckily has shoved them to the curb now and took the lead, while Riley goes back to playing with tube frame poo poo. It sounds like the ACO is still going to call it a Riley, though, which is complete nonsense given that it's being entirely re-homologated as a new car
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Oct 27, 2017 04:07
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So Renger van der Zande is taking over Ricky Taylor's seat at WTR. That's a nasty as hell driver lineup and helps them keep up with the new/upgraded teams despite only having one car with which to compete next year
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Oct 27, 2017 22:57
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Mazda Motorsports' tweets also mention that Joel Miller is among the drivers testing the car. That's the first mention of him in affiliation with the new program, as far as I know. Wonder if they'll be retaining him as a full-time driver after all.
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Nov 4, 2017 21:55
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Cygni posted:Joest Mazda released their lineups, Tom Long and Joel Miller are out, Oli Jarvis and Harry Tincknell are in, with Pigot and Rene Rast the third drivers for the enduros. Going to be interesting to see how Harry Tincknell manages to balance full-time drives in both IMSA and the WEC next year. I think we should see next year's liveries for the RT24P Evo at the LA Auto Show in the next few days, too.
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Nov 29, 2017 01:49
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Xisticide posted:
It sounds like both the 55 and 70 are going to be Soul Red Crystal this year but I hope that's incorrect and they keep the Machine Grey paint scheme on the 70. They're both factory Mazda colors, gorgeous in person, and it's nice to be able to easily tell them apart.
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Nov 30, 2017 00:31
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Norns posted:I love seeing that my home simulator setup is better than loving professional race teams Calling the last few years of Speedsource a "professional race team" is stretching the meaning of the term to the point of no recognition They should've just stuck with running Miatas in CTSCC-ST where their level of strategy, preparation, and pit lane execution was passable
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Dec 5, 2017 04:34
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| # ¿ May 15, 2024 22:40 |
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GT4 spec should probably be locked into FR layouts which would help keep the exotics in GT3, but that would disqualify the Caymans and force Porsche to race the Macan Actually nevermind, that would be great
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Dec 8, 2017 04:04
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