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Feels Villeneuve posted:Interest in Supercars may just be down. Them moving off FTA TV was a big mistake. A recurring theme with Australian sports. Once you're off Free-to-air, viewership and fan engagement is going to plummet.
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May 19, 2017 16:08
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Dudley posted:Are we doing an IRC or Slack or something for LeMans? We have a discord.
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Jun 17, 2017 11:29
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So I'm going to go back to the Balance of Performance debate and just say this: It makes Ford GT fans whine like crazy, especially this year when Ford sandbagged like crazy and still got nailed, so I'm 100% a-ok with it. Cygni posted:I highly doubt that killed the clutch. I would wager that people with Toyota are looking for something to blame for the fact that they outspent everyone, had the fastest car, brought 3 of them, and finished behind P2 cars. Pretty natural reaction, but isn't going to change anything in the end. They absolutely are looking for excuses. At the end of the day though, that's just how Le Mans goes. They were winning WEC handily, and I hope they're back again next year.
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Jun 19, 2017 11:00
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drgitlin posted:It was new for 2016 iirc. Aston Martin has been running a Vantage since like 2011 (and they also entered with one in 2009). It's been updated to take full advantage of shifting regulations during that time, but it's been the same platform the whole way through. Next year the platform changes to the replacement for the Vantage which is yet to be unveiled. Some lower-tier non-works Astons will still be the current Vantage because money.
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Jun 19, 2017 12:28
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The only other companies that *might* give a poo poo are Peugeot and Renault, but Renault is busy with F1 and Peugeot is busy making the blandest cars known to mankind and don't really feel like sexying up their image at all (they can't afford it).
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Jun 21, 2017 04:55
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harperdc posted:Peugeot remains the rumored company to join the WEC and Le Mans, and considering Renault is in F1 and Peugeot has great history at the 24 (and is French...) you have to think they'll come. Nissan may increase their involvement, Honda has been rumored, I would love to see Mazda come back but I think they're focused on IMSA and American junior series at this point, which means Japan isn't interested at all. And who knows, if Porsche leaves (or cuts the Prototype program but keeps their GTE program) I wouldn't be shocked to see Audi push to come back into Prototype racing. The 24 became massive for the Audi brand. Peugeot straight up can't afford it under the current "Manufacturers must be Hybrid" rules and definitely can't afford it under the coming 2020 rules, Nissan doesn't have a clue how to go about approaching it and their involvement would be a bit of a joke although Renault might help out a bunch, Honda is Honda (although the Electric finish stuff would likely have piqued their interest, they're definitely focused on F1 for now) and if Porsche leaves (again), VAG is out for a few years. If Porsche leaves, LMP1 is in real trouble. There is no one there to take over unless they undertake a massive overhaul of the rules. I don't honestly think Porsche will leave LMP1.
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Jun 21, 2017 22:44
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Roller Coast Guard posted:If Porsche leaves then I would assume LMP2 becomes the new LMP1, maybe with a loosening of regs to up the speeds a little. LMP1 only counts as a top tier category in the FIA because it has 2 Manufacturers in it. Proud Christian Mom posted:VAG is going to have either Audi or Porsche in WEC. Porsche is in GTE.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:06
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drgitlin posted:The OEM LMP1-H grid is indeed shrinking, but Porsche is committed until at least 2018 and Toyota until the following year afaik. BMW wants to enter in 2020 with stupid H2-powered cars. (Stop trying to make hydrogen a thing!) I was pretty confident BMW had abandoned any plan of entering LMP1 in favour of resuming GTE and entering Formula E.
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Jun 21, 2017 23:36
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Dudley posted:Guessing DTM and Formula E aren't "Major programs"? Formula E is probably run by Abt and, as far as I can tell, Abt effectively also runs their DTM team. I'm not disproving you, but pulling a different link and saying "how long has it been since Audi did something like Porsche and ran it themselves"? I think Joest got killed when Audi pulled the plug, and if true that's very sad.
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Jun 22, 2017 14:05
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julian assflange posted:Who run the R8s in the Blancpain races? All privateers? "W Racing Team", a Belgian group.
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Jun 22, 2017 14:22
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gret posted:Yeah I would guess Penske puts an experienced endurance driver in the other seats. Lots of good talent out there, especially with the demise of Audi's LMP1 program. Maybe somebody like Romain Dumas, who used to drive for Penske in the ALMS Porsche Spyder days, or Loic Duval. Retirement (a large collection of Audi's team was built on guys who had been there since Porsche's pullout), LMP2, Porsche and Formula E have eaten the former Audi-sport team. There's no meat on that bone. Lucas di Grassi and Oliver Jarvis are the ones that leap out as not being "totally garbage", and it looks like they might be pretty happy where they are. IMSA isn't going to be a huge prestigious lure that drags good Euro-drivers across the pond, and I doubt Honda is super keen to invest megabucks making it so. Schlesische fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jul 12, 2017 |
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Jul 12, 2017 06:03
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iospace posted:Bold Prediction: LMP1 implodes. LMP2 simply becomes "prototype", and WEC moves to IMSA style classes LMP1 isn't dead, it's the HY split that's dead if Porsche pulls out. julian assflange posted:Maybe Nissan will come back for another go. A showdown between them and Toyota would be cool. Nissan apparently has zero compunction to create a non-competitive car... If Porsche did pull out, I could see ACO caving completely to Peugeot's demands and lowering the entry requirements so that manufacturers don't have to enter P1HY in order to have two manufacturers. Also, LMP1 (and particularly LMP1HY) has never had great Manufacturer buy in, especially for WEC/ELMS. All of that is ignoring the following: 1) Porsche doesn't give a flying gently caress about WEC, only Le Mans which they're continuing to win. 2) the ACO pandered pretty hard to Porsche and are more than willing to pander even harder if that's what it takes. 3) Porsche doesn't need to build a new car until it's time to get ready for 2020. I predict they'll reevaluate it, trim the program a bit and reevaluate it but for realsies this time before 2019. Schlesische fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Jul 16, 2017 |
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Jul 16, 2017 08:25
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Cygni posted:Might be reading too far into the word "done" here, but he doesn't seem very bullish about the future at least. He's still hella pissed that the ACO decided not to let non-Manufacturers race P1HY's (although it remains to be seen if the 2017 Audi was going to be competitive in any event, ignoring the fact that VAG was almost certainly never going to let someone else drive that car). dsriggs posted:You think the ACO's regretting not letting the DPi's run Le Mans yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJXYMDu6dpY The ACO is trying to define itself against F1 and F-E, and it's been chasing Electric drive feverishly for the last 5 years (and the current iteration of the 2020 rules indicate that that's where it sees it's future). Allowing DPi would be a clear move against that.
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Jul 19, 2017 03:06
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harperdc posted:I'm not terribly surprised Formula E is flourishing so much because it has to be a much, much cheaper series to enter and run in than others (probably $10 million a year or less for the team budget, which is more IndyCar budget than F1) and, unlike DTM, actually supports the company's electric push, both in marketing and engineering. Formula E budgets are going to skyrocket in 5 years; the only reason they were so cheap up to now is because everything but the actual powertrain was spec (and the powertrain was heavily regulated). If Merc is coming in, with BMW confirmed as being in and with Audi taking over Abt and making it a genuinely works team, the spec elements are going to die a painful death. iospace posted:The car-swapping is probably the biggest drawback at this point (though if I remember right they're ending that next season). They're allowing development on the batteries and ending the car swapping for the next season. Cygni posted:once they stop the car swapping and get better tracks, i might watch So they stop the car swapping next year, but the battery tech probably has a way to go until they can do "normal" tracks and race distances. Watch some of the youtube highlights/full race uploads that they put up next year. The racing is surprisingly decent. Schlesische fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 00:27
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njsykora posted:The powertrain isn't fully spec, much of that other than the motor is open hence why there's a fairly large difference between the gearing setup of many cars (some still running standard 5 gear setups and others just using 1). Batteries also aren't going to be an area for development for teams any time soon as production of those is on a long term contract for McLaren. The question regarding ending car swapping has mostly been do you eliminate the need for a pitstop completely, allow hotswapping batteries or use some kind of quick charging system. All 3 have advantages regarding electric car development and it's going to be interesting which one they go with. Wow I was off the mark. Thanks.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:01
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harperdc posted:Dieselgate made Audi's P1 diesel program troublesome from a marketing perspective, and from a financial one as well. They'd probably still be in P1. Back onto VAG and Porsche: Turns out Porsche is copping a 22,000 car recall related to dieselgate itself [and on it's most profitable and least Porsche like car, to boot]. It was announced the same day that Porsche announced they were pulling out of LMP1. I do not believe this is a coincidence [they would've found out a bit before Le Mans that they were about to get nailed, which is roughly when all the stories I didn't buy about Porsche pulling out of Le Mans started coming out]. Audi would probably still be racing it's TDi, and Porsche might still be racing the 919, but VAG is a garbage company and always will be. Audi was already in Formula E, and it's not like Formula E has a genuine fan base - definitely not compared to Le Mans [not saying WEC, saying Le Mans]. Seriously, gently caress VAG forever and ever. Turn Porsches into cookie-cutter sports cars, give them electric and all wheel steering and give the world the abomination that is "the Porsche Cayenne" [and also "the Porsche Macan"]. Lets not even go into what they're doing to Lambo. Schlesische fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jul 31, 2017 |
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Jul 31, 2017 00:33
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Wirth1000 posted:I'm probably gonna buy a Cayman within 4 to 5 years, hope that helps. I'd say buy an old 911, but outside of the uggo one they're all worth like 6x what a new 911 is.
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Jul 31, 2017 00:39
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Human Grand Prix posted:Tilke gets blamed a lot, but yeah the FIA are actually the ones responsible for crappy track designs, or mutilating old ones. His original designs, like Sepang and Turkey, are pretty good. Yas Marina Exists. You have *that much money* and you make *that garbage of a track*? You need to stop designing tracks.
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Jul 31, 2017 02:42
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drgitlin posted:LOL, no it wasn't. The track has been designed by F1 architect Hermann Tilke, and construction will be overseen by Dallas-based construction company Austin Commercial. Yes, it was.
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Jul 31, 2017 23:49
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LMP1's rules [including the rules coming for 2020] were made with VAG in the room. They knew what they wanted, and ACO basically wrote the 2020 ruleset to pander to Porsche and their drive towards more electricity in their car lineup. Porsche deciding that it's too expensive and not fair is a cop-out of the highest degree [the real reason is further cutbacks at VAG as more cars are deemed to have cheated emissions tests by governments, this time including Porsches]. Having said that LMP1 was meant to be the cream of the crop. If DPi wants that status they're gonna have to drop a bunch of the restrictions and that's going to mean that a bunch of the teams are going to drop out eventually as the price to be competitive rises. I still think the ACO goes into crisis mode, holds talks with Toyota and Peugeot and finds a way to make LMP1 cheaper, gets Peugeot to commit short term and keeps trundling on. LMP1 will move down to be closer to the level of DPi and LMP2. Is that a bad thing? No. France gets a bit more national pride when Toyota Gazoo Racing inevitably Toyota and Gazoo's it's way out of winning next year, they might snag another manufacturer to take it up and European Sports Car fans get to pretend IMSA doesn't exist for another 5-6 years. Schlesische fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Aug 1, 2017 |
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Aug 1, 2017 06:54
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Dudley posted:It's possible, but fairly unlikely. I could absolutely see a new TS-070 crashing into a LMGTE-AM Ferrari at next years Le Mans, and the other one having catastrophic brake failure coming into Indianapolis. If you can't envision that, I just don't think you've watched enough recent Le Mans. Schlesische fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Aug 2, 2017 |
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Aug 2, 2017 08:49
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orange juche posted:I think they made it unlisted because they screwed up and uploaded the wrong race. They uploaded the 1993 WSC race at Road America. Pre-WSC race. There were 962s.
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Aug 4, 2017 02:29
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I still love the story about the Dauer 962s. Dauer: "This is totally a street-legal grand touring car" FIA: "Then why does it look like a Porsche 962" Dauer: "Because it is a street legal, grand touring 962" FIA: "Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck" Porsche: "GOT 'EM!"
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Aug 4, 2017 12:34
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iospace posted:Let's see... Mercedes, BMW and Audi are all joining Formula E, BMW is redoing a GTLM car and Mercedes already spends far, far more than what the other two do just by virtue of F1. I could see VAG doing it, but if VAG goes into DPi the year after they pull the plug on LMP1 the ACO is going to flip the table and make VAG persona non grata at Le Mans. They pulled it on BMW after BMW pulled out before homologating the car they ran at Le Mans for two or three years and they did it to Mazda after Mazda humiliated them by winning in a 787B despite major rule changes (although Mazda prolly wasn't sticking around in any event). I could imagine it'd be harder for Porsche to find spots to advertise it's latest "I can't believe they're calling this a" 911 among other minor things that will undoubtedly come across as petty and small minded.
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Aug 5, 2017 03:21
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njsykora posted:If Audi was planning a DPi program I doubt Joest would've gone in with Mazda. Joest is still throwing a hissy fit that VAG wouldn't let them drive the 2017 car anyway.
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Aug 6, 2017 03:29
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So from where I'm sitting this would just about sum it up: VAG hosed up, and it looks like we're losing WEC as a result. Have I mentioned "gently caress VAG" recently? Dieselgate singlehandedly killed like a billion dollars worth of investment from VAG in the Audi program and given the timing of Porsche's termination vs the timing of an announcement that Porsche's most profitable cars (SUVs, because rich people have no taste) are also getting nailed probably killed Porsche's interest too. LMP1 was the FIA's answer to the ACO asking "but c'mon, F1 is stealing all our thunder, give us something!". It had large, glaring holes but it filled the role of "top tier motorsport" in a way that nothing can match. DPi is not the answer to the probable death of LMP1 as it is now - you either kill the idea of "the top tier of motorsports going balls to the wall and pushing the boundaries" or you kill the idea of "a class of motorsports designed to attract manufacturers and have competitive racing". Realistically the ACO is prolly gonna push a raft of cost-cutting and changes designed to lower the barrier to entry to try to get Peugeot back in while keeping Toyota on the hook. I dunno how they do that with the LMP2s being as good as they are now. WEC dying a horrible death isn't necessarily a bad thing because outside of Le Mans most of the races were garbage anyway (none of the good US races? 6 hours of Spa? 6 hours of the Nurburgring? Bahrain, Shanghai and Mexico? WTF kind of Endurance is this FIA?). harperdc posted:The only time the works/customer teams co-mingling worked recently was Group C, when Porsche produced loads of 956/962s and customers could pick them up easily (think GT3s now). There were other factories as well but between crashes and failures, the mosquito fleet of private Porsches would still be competitive. (A private DPi in this manner is what IMSA is missing now, that or better balance with the P2 spec cars). F1 is waaaaaay more complicated than that. Example: Minardi was such a trainwreck that once the engine deal expired/once Toro Rosso got their own engine deal/once Red Bull learned the FIA weren't going to let them effectively run 4 cars they had to basically start from scratch. The result is that somewhere in italy is a mega-million dollar facility that has almost nothing to do with old-Minardi. Likewise, Red Bull were built from the wreckage of Jaguar. Again, a whole bunch of money went into building a new facility in Milton Keynes which is their new HQ and again you can't really say that Red Bull and Jaguar/Stewart have a lot in common. A lot of money got wasted in the Jaguar/Stewart wasted years. Sauber is a fun trip down motorsports history. F1 lurches wildly through rule changes and while success comes down to personnel, largely, those personnel don't tend to stick at one team over multiple periods of "success".
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Sep 1, 2017 15:46
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wicka posted:Nah I just think it's funny to imagine the ACO developing common sense. Fixed that for you. Cygni posted:Sebring isnt a combined race... its TWIN 12 hours, lmao The absolute best worst idea ever. Cygni posted:LMP1 failed because they are spending $200m+ in marketing dollars for a thing that doesnt reach $200m+ worth of eyes and buyers.... ...and "its part of Brand Image" (lol), and "it reaches car enthusiast buyers!" (enthusiast buyers aren't going to buy a Toyota just because they paid some people to make a racecar). The thing was a dumb house of cards from the day they announced it for those reasons. Basically, you can spend $200million on more ad time that people have already switched off from, $200million on making your new Camry even better in ways most people will never appreciate or you can try to halo-car your way out of being "the boring business suit car company". People do genuinely still buy cars because "they make a race car I like watching", and a lot of people follow race cars that win. I don't think it works for Toyota because they don't "synergise" (at all), but I think it helped make the R8 a thing which help "sexy up" Audi's image (a little) and gave them a slight bit more differentiation from sister brand Volkswagen. Granted, it's a terrible business model that falls apart when you start investing extreme levels of money in Racing programs as you have to nowadays, but if done right it can really help with perception and image. Cygni posted:...They rationalized it to themselves by saying "we're developing technology!" (a lie) When you look at the Hybrid technologies that were being pursued when LMP1-H started they had a legit argument that they were pushing high-performance Hybrid technology in new and unique ways. Cygni posted:I know cost controls aren't fun for you fans who want to see XTREME CUTTING EDGE TECHNOLOGY (even though P1 was in no way open technologically in the first place) but there arent enough of you, and cost controls are the only thing that keeps series alive. If you want to see technology based meritocracy and limitless innovation with an extreme competitive environment, walk down the washing machine aisle at best buy. Firstly, if you want tight competitive racing with a variety of body shapes and tight cost controls, Touring Cars exist. Secondly, gently caress you for the washing machines and best buy comment. Thirdly, if it's assumed that the ACO is genuinely pushing to make Endurance racing an inhabitant of that pedestal F1 has dominated for the better part of two decades, DPi at Le Mans is not any form of response to LMP1's demise. They're not going to come within reasonable touch of the lap times set by the LMP1-Hs from 2016 and outside of "okay, we're opening up restrictions on the engines, go wild" (which will defeat the entire purpose of DPi) they're like a decade and a half away from being in that realm of lap-time. They produce interesting racing and attractive cars, but they're not exciting in anything like the way the TS-016 or 919 were. The collapse of LMP1 (really just Porsche pulling out) is probably the biggest nail in ACO's push to get it's prestige back up to a point where the "average" motorsports fan will care; F1 is a long way ahead now and outside of Liberty loving everything up (which they don't seem to be) it's hard to see that changing anytime soon. So hey, maybe it's time for the ACO to lower the eyes and accept that. In that scenario DPi at Le Mans, here we come.
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Sep 2, 2017 02:17
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an oddly awful oud posted:I still think VAG's heavy investment in WEC was Ferdinand Piëch's influence. That kind of drat-it-all spending on cutting edge technology is exactly the kind of thing you'd expect from a guy who said "I'm going to make my middle-market car company build a luxury sedan that can keep the interior 72 degrees while doing 186 mph on a 122-degree day, and I don't give a gently caress what it costs, oh also I'm going to build a new factory for it with hardwood floors" and then actually did it, especially being a former engineer who cut his teeth on absolutely dominant, legendary race cars like the Quattro and 917. It really made very little sense from just about any standpoint, but by god was it a great era of racing It was, but the Phaeton was a swansong "gently caress it lets push all the boundaries and make the best car I can possibly think of" that eventually became the Veyron. Piech has been getting pushed out of VAG for some time now, and I don't honestly think both Porsche and Audi would've dropped LMP1 if they hadn't tried to cheat on emissions reports. Schlesische fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Sep 2, 2017 |
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Sep 2, 2017 04:21
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VikingSkull posted:Not the Veyron, it was the same platform as the Bentley Continental I meant the idea underpinning the Phaeton - just make the most insane car they can.
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Sep 2, 2017 05:18
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Dr. Garbanzo posted:Looks like now that Penske is getting results in V8 supercars other Americans are jumping on board. Probably won't be the worst thing for the sort in the long term seeing as most teams run on oily rag levels of funding Supercars as a format is going to struggle long term with the whole "Holden and Ford are dying" thing.
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Oct 5, 2017 14:55
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I NEVER BELIEVED IN YOU ANYWAY SIMONA 
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Oct 8, 2017 08:09
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Bentai posted:So next year's Bathurst 1000 will be with turbocharged V6's instead of the V8's right? Last year of the fun cars. I think you have the choice of V8s or Turbo 6s, but Holden and Ford will be bringing Turbo 6s so I'd assume most of the field will be.
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Oct 8, 2017 08:29
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You Am I posted:I didn't know Ford was also moving away from the V8. It would be strange since the Mustang V8 is selling pretty well. It's hard to put but, basically, Ford are doing what Merc did when Erebus entered; they aren't providing any backing to the supercars outfits but they aren't saying "please don't" either. There is no indication there will be a Gen2 Ford car, with the Mustang being the only choice. (I was aware Ford pulled the plug on Supercars - they did it awhile ago - I wasn't sure if they had decided to try again in Gen2).
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Oct 8, 2017 08:48
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an oddly awful oud posted:I would be shocked if Bamber left Porsche GT racing. All the rumors I heard were that Porsche was going to put him and Nick Tandy back in the seats of the 911 RSRs, since they were such a strong pair before they got brought up into the LMP program. Van der Zande seems like a more obvious choice for Mazda due to Troy Flis' relationship with the brand. But who the hell knows at this point It's the highest level of competition left to him unless he wants to drive one of the customer LMP1s. If Joest really goes after him, I think the only way Porsche keep him is if he's on the shortlist for the F-E team.
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Oct 12, 2017 03:55
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harperdc posted:Marketing budget getting shrunk? Ford have a chance to push the future of LMGTE - ACO prolly doesn't want to lose Ford immediately after losing Porsche and probably losing Toyota. I don't think Ford cares. The current Ford GT was a "50 years" passion project for one of the ford spawnlings, so I think the project is gonna get nixed as soon as it becomes genuinely noncompetitive.
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Nov 2, 2017 02:04
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drgitlin posted:I’d be surprised if it died, they extended road car production for an extra two years after all. They probably underestimated demand and definitely made a "rectifiable" shitstorm with their purchase program.
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Nov 2, 2017 02:14
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WindyMan posted:The DeltaWing was a cool and good car. Anyone that disagrees with this is a bad and wrong person. The DeltaWing was a cool and good idea. It was a terrible car that needed like a decade to work out the kinks in it's execution.
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Nov 7, 2017 22:58
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Dudley posted:Assuming one were actively insane I don't think there's anything preventing a manufacturer doing a part season and entering that 2nd LeMans. IIRC the ACO clearly put their foot down and indicated that if Toyota wasn't prepared to commit for the whole double-season they probably shouldn't bother. If they pull that to Toyota and don't back it up to (say for example) Ferrari, it'd set a bad precedent (that the ACO has already set in the past).
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Nov 21, 2017 10:14
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geonetix posted:If he's in for the entire season, he has two chances to win the 24h of Le Mans, which is good enoguh for me anyway He's gonna get Toyota luck in one and Gazoo luck in the other.
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Nov 22, 2017 00:25
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| # ¿ May 3, 2024 13:14 |
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njsykora posted:Misc Auto Racing in perpetuo: gently caress Jamie Whincup
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Nov 26, 2017 13:06
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