Legality of assaults

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Should it be legal for other people to assault you if they disagree with you? This poll is closed.
Yes	183	49.06%
No	190	50.94%
Total:	328 votes

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Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Kilroy posted:

I think I'm being overbroad with what I'm calling a "fascist" here, and I retract it. Donald Trump is a fascist. The GOP is a fascist organization on the whole, and many of its members in national politics are fascists. A lot of GOP voters are fascists, but while voting for a Republican means you are supporting fascism, it doesn't make you a fascist. (It certainly doesn't help, though.)

If you vote for a Republican, and the reasons for that vote align with the nakedly fascist ideals of that party, then you're a fascist.
If you vote for a Republican who does not support the party as a whole, but whose election will enable the nakedly fascist party to enact nakedly fascist policies, then you're ambivalent to fascism, a oval office, and with the distinction being fag paper thin, who cares?

# ¿ Jan 26, 2017 11:17

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 08:37

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Wild Horses posted:

its time to put these fascists down with a good old fashioned civil war. 50% vs 50% right now

I'd join in but then I'd end up on the weekly naughty immigrants list you guys are going to publish now.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2017 11:51

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

If you divorce speech from context, and make everything a tit for tat sides issues then sure, people on a forum saying punch nazis are worse than a President who's going to (attempt to) strip voting rights from a sizeable portion of your citizenship based on a half remembered golfing anecdote, and then enact policies that disproportionally harm them.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2017 04:07

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

FreeKillB posted:

e:^^^^ I assumed you were doing the bolding thing for shock value as an argumentative tactic, to be honest. My view is that while Nazi ideology is far removed from a realm of sane politics, it is absolutely a political position. My view of this thread is discussing whether protections afforded ordinary political speech should be extended to extremely loathsome political speech

Let me debate Nazis but only if you let me divorce their views from their inevitable political and genocidal consequences. :qq:

# ¿ Jan 27, 2017 09:24

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

enki42 posted:

There are many, many ways to protest a government without violence. See: most successful protests in the 20th century.

And the point of protest generally isn't for Donald Trump to look out his window and say "man, that sign really made my think about my attitude towards minorities and women", it's to raise awareness of issues among the general public and sway public opinion to your side.

If your opinion is that the point of protests is to actually physically overthrow the oppressors, good luck with that.

Name one. One that worked, and had lasting institutional change.

Also, don't forget that throughout this, you're devils advocating for a genocidal nazi

# ¿ Jan 27, 2017 16:40

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Rise up Women! 'Andrew Rosen' posted:

15 Attacking Politicians
Only the most serious of the many incidents of the late summer and autumn of 1909 need be described here. Knowing that Haldane* was to speak in the Sun Hall in Liverpool on 20 August, the WSPU rented a house adjoining the hall, and during Haldane's speech suffragettes in the house threw bricks at the hall's windows. On 5 September, as Asquith was leaving Lympne Church, he was accosted by three WSPU members, Jessie Kenney, Elsie Howey, and Vera Wentworth. One of the three struck him repeatedly. Later that day, the same trio approached the Prime Minister's party on a golf course.... That evening two stones were thrown through one of the windows of the house in which Asquith was dining.
On 17 September, Asquith spoke in the Bingley Hall in Birmingham. The hall was surrounded by police, and no women were admitted to the meeting. Earlier that day, Mary Leigh and Charlotte Marsh, the WSPU's regional organizer for Yorkshire, had equipped themselves with axes and climbed on to the roof of a house near the hall. During the meeting they chopped slates from the roof and threw them down at the police and at Asquith's motor car. A policeman standing in the crowd below was badly cut by a slate, and a detective who climbed on to the roof had slates thrown at him and was knocked down to a lower building. When a hose was turned on the women, they called out, holding fast: `Will you see that Mr. Asquith receives us if we surrender?' The police eventually climbed on to the roof and arrests were made. In the meantime, a suffragette in the crowd below, Mary Edwards, assaulted several policemen. Subsequently, at the police station, she broke every pane of glass in her cell. Later that day, as Asquith returned to London by train, two WSPU members threw a metal object at the train and broke the window of a compartment in which passengers were seated. That evening, two other WSPU members entered the Birmingham Liberal Club armed with an axe and did �3 worth of damage to the windows.

Women famously did not get the vote

# ¿ Jan 27, 2017 16:51

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Keeshhound posted:

Hey, quick reading comprehension tip: read everything twice. No one in this thread is advocating for Nazis. We're arguing that the kind of violent pretaliation that's being proposed will do more harm than good.

How is it pretaliation when the people you're punching are in power, and advocating genocide openly?

Also, there have been lots of people itt whatabouting the position of violence against fascists by doing a find/replace with other political ideologies, which only acts to legitimise fascism as if it's somewhere a little along an imaginary spectrum, rather than an abhorrent cancer on society. It's an insidious tactic of parasitical groups to get liberals to argue that while Spicer/Bannon/Trump are openly advocating for martial law, genocide, the removal of voting rights, posting lists of ubermnesch crimes for the country to see and starting wars of aggression they shouldn't face physical consequence because that makes them uncomfortable.

# ¿ Jan 27, 2017 20:56

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

Mass deportations of ethnic or religious groups constitute Crimes against Humanity at the very least and genocide at worst so when a sitting President(s adviser) begins to enact Executive Orders that have the sole aim of deporting Muslims (but have been dressed up in enough flowery language to dog whistle) and people itt say 'genocide couldn't happen in America' I really don't get it.

# ¿ Jan 30, 2017 05:36

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 08:37

Total Meatlove: Jan 28, 2007; Rangers died, shoujo Hitler cried ;_;

enki42 posted:

Non-nazi people.

Obviously it isn't as black and white as that. My point is, when violence is escalating from both sides, it's normalized, and Nazis showing up armed, brandishing, etc. seems less insane. When violence is met with non-violent direct action, the non-violent side maintains the moral high ground and highlights the extremes of the other side.

And get stabbed and shot. You realise that right?

# ¿ Jan 30, 2017 21:29

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