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Slightly Used Cake
Oct 21, 2010
I'm 32, currently self employed, but I would really love a job at an organization that comes with benefits. I interviewed with a large international airline this week for a job that would have been pretty much perfect. The catch is I'm visually impaired. I did my best to point out that I have the experience to help a variety of other differently abled people feel comfortable, I know when yo ask for help, I'm experienced with a range of visual accessibility tools. I did everything I could to minimize the worry. On a personal level I thought the interview went great, and I received an email this morning saying my resume is not even being help in their pre-approved pool of people who just weren't good enough for this round.

Unfortunately this has been an ongoing theme of pretty much every interview I've ever had. Over the years I've spoken to numerous folks about it and always received different advice. I had a career counselor at the CNIB say why even tell people? I've had friends in management say of course you bring it up, nobody likes surprises.

I've always felt it's fairest to bring it up in the interview, that if I got the job and hadn't said anything people would feel like I had lied.

My whole life I've had two successful interviews outside of working for family or myself, and one was because a friend was working at a high management level and essentially got me the job, and the other was because although I tried to let my interviewer know just for fair warning he was powering through and not really paying attention because it was a hiring flurry before Christmas for a casual position and in the end I also didn't get told I was being kept on until two days before my contract ended which meant having to scramble in January.

My visual disability is that I have low vision, am profoundly colourblind, and I have no depth perception. I'm currently working at a transcriptionist and closed captioner, but I would like something a bit more stable, and with benefits. I am capable of living independently, I manage my own finances, buy my own clothes, I'm an avid knitter. I own a dog who doesn't pay attention to her own surroundings so I'm more guiding her. I just have to get close to things to read them, am squinty and, you know, colourblind.

So my question is, how do I approach this in interview situations that will stop companies from just shying away? Or is there a way to do so?

tl;dr: My eyes are broken, how do get hired?

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therobit
Aug 19, 2008

I've been tryin' to speak with you for a long time

Slightly Used Cake posted:

I'm 32, currently self employed, but I would really love a job at an organization that comes with benefits. I interviewed with a large international airline this week for a job that would have been pretty much perfect. The catch is I'm visually impaired. I did my best to point out that I have the experience to help a variety of other differently abled people feel comfortable, I know when yo ask for help, I'm experienced with a range of visual accessibility tools. I did everything I could to minimize the worry. On a personal level I thought the interview went great, and I received an email this morning saying my resume is not even being help in their pre-approved pool of people who just weren't good enough for this round.

Unfortunately this has been an ongoing theme of pretty much every interview I've ever had. Over the years I've spoken to numerous folks about it and always received different advice. I had a career counselor at the CNIB say why even tell people? I've had friends in management say of course you bring it up, nobody likes surprises.

I've always felt it's fairest to bring it up in the interview, that if I got the job and hadn't said anything people would feel like I had lied.

My whole life I've had two successful interviews outside of working for family or myself, and one was because a friend was working at a high management level and essentially got me the job, and the other was because although I tried to let my interviewer know just for fair warning he was powering through and not really paying attention because it was a hiring flurry before Christmas for a casual position and in the end I also didn't get told I was being kept on until two days before my contract ended which meant having to scramble in January.

My visual disability is that I have low vision, am profoundly colourblind, and I have no depth perception. I'm currently working at a transcriptionist and closed captioner, but I would like something a bit more stable, and with benefits. I am capable of living independently, I manage my own finances, buy my own clothes, I'm an avid knitter. I own a dog who doesn't pay attention to her own surroundings so I'm more guiding her. I just have to get close to things to read them, am squinty and, you know, colourblind.

So my question is, how do I approach this in interview situations that will stop companies from just shying away? Or is there a way to do so?

tl;dr: My eyes are broken, how do get hired?

If you can perform the job functions then there us no reason to disclose it. It sucks and is illegal, but 99% of the time they will discrimate against you because they fear having to make reasonable accommodations as well as an ada lawsuit if they fire you for any reason (not saying that fear is founded, just that it exists).

They have no right to your medical information prior to employing you and only have a right to as much as necessary to make reasonable accomodations once you are employed.

BAE OF PIGS
Nov 28, 2016

Tup
If you get the job, and then disclose the disability, and they feel like you lied, so what? They can't fire you for that. I understand that you want to be upfront, and that's admirable, but let's face it, most place think that making reasonable accommodations is a hassle would rather not do it.

If they wouldn't have hired you because of your vision problems, view it as an opportunity to prove their stereotypes wrong by excelling at your job.

John Smith
Feb 26, 2015

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN
You are in no position to be fussy. As pointed out by the above posters, few reasonable companies would be interested in hiring you due to legal liability.

Either you lie by omission to get a job to put food on the table, or you continue to be prideful and starve. Simple straightforward advice. Lie your rear end off.

therobit
Aug 19, 2008

I've been tryin' to speak with you for a long time

John Smith posted:

You are in no position to be fussy. As pointed out by the above posters, few reasonable companies would be interested in hiring you due to legal liability.

Either you lie by omission to get a job to put food on the table, or you continue to be prideful and starve. Simple straightforward advice. Lie your rear end off.

It isn't lying to not disclose your private medical information. That is protected and it would be illegal to ask about it in an interview.

John Smith
Feb 26, 2015

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

therobit posted:

It isn't lying to not disclose your private medical information. That is protected and it would be illegal to ask about it in an interview.

"lie by omission" which the OP specified is his concern.

antiga
Jan 16, 2013

I would not disclose this information in an interview as long as you're confident answering yes to "can you perform all of the duties of this position?". It's on them to provide reasonable accommodation.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

John Smith posted:

"lie by omission" which the OP specified is his concern.

If OP can do the job they are applying for (with reasonable accommodation) then they don't need to tell their employer squat prior to starting work. As long as OP can do they job they're applying and being hired for, their vision is their own concern. If there are non-waivable physical requirements for the job, those should be in the job ad or disclosed in the application process. My current job, for example, clearly stated that the ability to distinguish colors and see in stereo was required. The OP would not be in the right to apply to a posting with those requirements, but that's not what we're talking about.

OP if you can do the job, apply and don't tell them anything else. When you start work put in a signed request for reasonable accommodation(s), as specifically as possible. Expect some growing pains but if they refuse to honor their requirement under the law to provide reasonable accommodation, that's their fault. If you can do the work and all you need is some special software and a pair of headphones (for example), that's perfectly reasonable to just ask for on day one. That's the point of "reasonable accommodation", right? That it's not a big deal for the employer, just get them a couple things and they're good to go, and keep working with them to resolve anything else as it may come up. The accommodations are reasonable- you're not asking for them to move mountains, just provide you with some additional tools, like they would do for anyone.

Uncle Enzo fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jan 31, 2017

Slightly Used Cake
Oct 21, 2010
Thanks so much everyone! Seriously, I think it's just that I've always felt it was the right thing to do, but yeah, being honest sucks.

Well I know what I'm going to do if I interview with those folks again!

And hopefully this was helpful to not just me. It's a super hard thing to deal with and I have been worried that it would cause an issue once I was hired as far as mood when I was working, but it's nice to see that people actually understand so I feel a lot more confident that people would get it and not be lovely about it if I got hired. Thanks folks!

Pryor on Fire
May 14, 2013

they don't know all alien abduction experiences can be explained by people thinking saving private ryan was a documentary

All this discussion about what is and isn't a lie and what the law says is really a horseshit collegiate waste of time, this person is blind and some advice around how to help someone get a successful career with that in mind seems like a better tack. I don't have any advice mind you, but all this jerking off over phrases and their definition like fine wine is just trying to wish away the elephant in the room.

Thesaurus
Oct 3, 2004


Definitely do not mention your disability until you've been offered a position.

Under the ADA, an employer can't ask you any disability related questions until the "post-offer" stage. Why do you think this is? Because before this it was really easy for employers to screen out disabled people. For the same reason, it can only hurt you to mention it. It certainly won't make you seem more qualified, but just a liability.

If you mention a need for accommodation after the offer and they give you a hard time, then they are potentially breaking the law and you could take them to task for it.

You could potentially file charges of discrimination against the companies that didn't hire you after you told them, but chances are that it would be extremely difficult to prove that's why they didn't hire you (unless they are dumb enough to have written it down or something, they just have to show that they hired someone else with better qualifications... not hard to do in a big applicant pool), so it may not be worth your time.

life is a joke
Mar 7, 2016
Why do you feel like you're tricking people by not disclosing a disability? The ADA includes language that allows candidates to be removed for legitimate reasons like safety, and that's on the company to prove so don't worry about it. It's not a matter of honesty or accountability on your part at all. Apply to jobs you think you're qualified for and if someone gives you poo poo they're an rear end in a top hat and a lawbreaker and you don't want to work for them anyway.

John Smith
Feb 26, 2015

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Pryor on Fire posted:

All this discussion about what is and isn't a lie and what the law says is really a horseshit collegiate waste of time, this person is blind and some advice around how to help someone get a successful career with that in mind seems like a better tack. I don't have any advice mind you, but all this jerking off over phrases and their definition like fine wine is just trying to wish away the elephant in the room.

Because the OP has 2 disabilities and we are trying to help him.

The OP has a physical disability that we cannot help him with.

The OP also has a mental disability of excessive honesty and we are helping him by letting him know that being completely honest is going to cost him the job and a livelihood. If he listen to this thread, then his chances go way way up.

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard

Pryor on Fire posted:

All this discussion about what is and isn't a lie and what the law says is really a horseshit collegiate waste of time, this person is blind and some advice around how to help someone get a successful career with that in mind seems like a better tack. I don't have any advice mind you, but all this jerking off over phrases and their definition like fine wine is just trying to wish away the elephant in the room.

The OP did not ask for help in finding a line of work that they could be successful in- actually they said they'd already done that, been interviewed (meaning the org was also fairly confident they were qualified), but then been turned down due to them disclosing a disability. I can't give the OP advice on what career is right for them- we haven't seen their resume, their experience, their education + grades, a writing sample, seen how good they are with people. poo poo, the companies did and were plenty interested! All we know is OP is visually impaired and getting turned down for jobs that they could have done with reasonable accommodation. That seems like the right thing to ask for advice and help on getting around.

Slightly Used Cake
Oct 21, 2010
Hey folks, I should clarify, first of all ladygoon, not that it's important, but also I'm Canadian. Although we have similar legislation in Canada I've never heard that they're not allowed to ask those kinds of questions in interview especially if someone offers up the information.

I'm glad to heard that the ADA gives clear-cut guidelines.

I think I also always disclose because my eye condition means I'm really squinty so I'm also paranoid they'll think I'm super high.

I think the other thing I'd love to know is if anybody has any experience having had a coworker not disclose and get hired and how was the mood in the work environment? I know every place is individual but I just FEEL like people would respond in a lovely manner.

John Smith
Feb 26, 2015

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Slightly Used Cake posted:

I just FEEL like people would respond in a lovely manner.

Of course they would!!! What the gently caress. How would you feel if your boyfriend told you he has AIDS *after* you two had (protected) sex? It is not about whether they will feel betrayed. Being humans, they (likely) would.

The point is that no company would realistically hire you if you were completely honest. As I said, lie your rear end off if necessary. You can have your dignity/honour or you can have food on the table. You are in no position to be picky.

Hint hint. There is a reason why the other posters keep harping on you having a legal right against retaliation. It is because we all rightly agree that many companies would likely want to retaliate. People like you piss me off. You (rightfully) want to have a job, but you are not willing to face the challenges in getting one. Come on, life is tough, especially for the disabled (sincerely). But you just need to man up and do what needs to be done. Jesus.

John Smith fucked around with this message at 12:34 on Feb 5, 2017

Uncle Enzo
Apr 28, 2008

I always wanted to be a Wizard
This is probably a good time to point our that forums poster John Smith is known to be an rear end in a top hat with wrong ideas, bad opinions, and the hygiene of a bloated corpse.


OP I'd suggest researching the employment laws in Canada, as well as any specific ones in your province. You might want to talk to a social worker or someone at a (government) employment agency, just to learn what the laws say and your rights are.

Slightly Used Cake
Oct 21, 2010

Uncle Enzo posted:

This is probably a good time to point our that forums poster John Smith is known to be an rear end in a top hat with wrong ideas, bad opinions, and the hygiene of a bloated corpse.


OP I'd suggest researching the employment laws in Canada, as well as any specific ones in your province. You might want to talk to a social worker or someone at a (government) employment agency, just to learn what the laws say and your rights are.

I actually have previously and the general response is you should disclose but when you ask them how to frame it or when the right time is to mention it they just come back with "you do." The problem is most people giving this kind of advice are well intentioned and are just taught that's just what you do. I even have a girlfriend who's an occupational therapist and she said the same thing. If you want to avoid an uncomfortable working environment then you disclose, if not then don't, but be prepared that you're going to be discriminated against.

And the thing is I can handle people being lovely to be, what I cannot tolerate is being stuck in a position of poor financial stability because somebody feels like they weren't informed and then blocked me from getting past probation, oh and also not using my name or speaking to me directly, but just referring to me as "her" and "she" for the rest of the time I was working with that company. (And no there was no recourse when the store manager would just kow tow to this woman for some reason I can't understand because she was a complete bag of cunts to customers as well as everyone else.)

I understand that this seems incredibly emo, and it should be black and white, but companies have probationary periods and I can't afford to have a solid job for three months but then get told I "just didn't work out" because I've burned bridges on my way in the door. I know what the law says, I do know what my rights are. And I know this sounds incredibly whiny to most people. But if you've never walked out of an interview-pretty much every interview you've ever done, and felt like it went great and you really clicked only to find you "weren't the right candidate" or "just not a good fit" when you've been left with the impression they look forward to speaking you. I literally cannot think of how to improve my actual interview game, and this is the last straw. I accepted it when I was interviewing for retail, but actual professional career jobs I expected better. I realize that was naive but there it is. This is a thing I can work around, but there's nothing I can do to fix it and it's just loving frustrating because to get to a place in your life where you're finally at peace with a disability and you can do all the grown up things despite it and you don't FEEL like it's really holding you back, well this poo poo is just a total knockback. I get the don't be loving stupid approach and that I need to man up. I genuinely do.

Honestly, I've just had so much in the way of professional and personal advice that my rights are such, and you should be honest because this, and so yeah, I needed a nice cross section of people's opinions. Thanks for your honesty folks. I just hope this is helpful for other people in my position.

John Smith
Feb 26, 2015

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

Exactly. You come in here looking for honest advice, and jerks like Uncle Enzo are filling you up with bullshit.

Of course you hope that people are compassionate and have a heart. But in the real world, people usually/often do what is convenient and good for themselves.

Uncle Enzo is the equivalent of you having cancer, and he tells you that he hopes you will get better (totally fine) and therefore no need for chemo (complete idiot). You hope things go well, but you ***still*** plan for the worst. You lie your rear end off to get that job, then you worry about the retaliation (which may not even happen).

BarbarianElephant
Feb 12, 2015
The fairy of forgiveness has removed your red text.
I once worked with a guy who did not disclose he had epilepsy until he had already worked at the job for a while. The boss was pissed for about 5 seconds, mostly because he would have hired the guy anyway (he was a good boss and I believe him - he hired much more diverse people than the average.) Of course, that's much more easy to hide than severe vision problems. If you can fake it, fake it. You'll get found out eventually so then you find out whether your employer is an rear end in a top hat or not by whether he fires you. So I guess you need to take jobs that don't involve relocation due to the high possibility of being out on your rear end after 2 weeks.

As the saying goes "It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission."

Find out your local laws though, so you understand how to game the system and don't give them an excuse to fire you.

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Turtle Blogger
Mar 16, 2006

My Angel

Don't worry about honesty, corporations have no compassion by design. Do your best to survive economically, that's what they are doing in their end.

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