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It's a lot of work
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Oct 18, 2020 00:33
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Rad-daddio posted:Does anyone have good sources for low cost editing? I'm finishing up the first in a series of fiction novels, and I've been seeing costs around 800-1100 usd and up for a 100k word manuscript. My intent is to use the first manuscript, and begin the long and painful search for an agent as I continue the series. So, if that's what it really costs then so be it. I've never seen an editor cost less than $1,000 for 100k words and I wouldn't trust them if they did.
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Oct 18, 2020 04:57
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Yeah editing takes I'd say around an hour per 1000 words (depends a lot on how much editing you're doing/how much needs doing) so for $1000 on a 100k manuscript you're looking at like $10 per hour, which is about the minimum someone should be charging.
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Oct 18, 2020 08:05
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Rad-daddio posted:Does anyone have good sources for low cost editing? I'm finishing up the first in a series of fiction novels, and I've been seeing costs around 800-1100 usd and up for a 100k word manuscript. My intent is to use the first manuscript, and begin the long and painful search for an agent as I continue the series. So, if that's what it really costs then so be it. Unless you don't have beta readers/crit partners to run it past, you don't really need to drop money on a professional edit before querying agents. Agents will read for voicing/characterisation/plotting, and if you have those then most will work with you to polish the manuscript. Once you have an agent, they will also discourage you from immediately starting work on the second book in a series - if they don't sell your first book then writing a second book that will never see the light of day is a waste of your time (unless your series is loosely connected enough that each book stands alone, which might be the case for a cozy mystery). You're better off developing a solid synopsis for the second book so the first book can be sold with sequel potential, and then starting a new project so you'll have a larger back catalogue for your agent to sell from.
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Oct 18, 2020 11:57
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I’ve thought about trying to get into editing (since I apparently will never actually write what I’ve been thinking on), not sure how one goes about that though.
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Oct 18, 2020 16:48
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Sally Forth posted:Unless you don't have beta readers/crit partners to run it past, you don't really need to drop money on a professional edit before querying agents. Agents will read for voicing/characterisation/plotting, and if you have those then most will work with you to polish the manuscript. Thanks for the info, everyone! I don't really have a good source of beta readers. I read about that site that lets your trade off reading and crits with other writers, so I'll probably start there. Everything I've read online so far basically said to hire an editor before approaching agents, so if I could skip that(with some decent crits from other writers/readers) that would be great.
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Oct 18, 2020 18:14
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Rad-daddio posted:Does anyone have good sources for low cost editing? I'm finishing up the first in a series of fiction novels, and I've been seeing costs around 800-1100 usd and up for a 100k word manuscript. My intent is to use the first manuscript, and begin the long and painful search for an agent as I continue the series. So, if that's what it really costs then so be it. Developmental Editing is a labor intensive process unfortunately. Check out https://www.bookbutchers.com/ to see what they offer. Extra Bloody would be the recommended level at $0.04/word for 2 rounds of editing. Bonus with BookButchers is that you'll get a few sample-edits to help you choose which editor you want to go with. Full disclosure, my wife is part of their stable of editors. You may also want to look for a small press they wants to pick it up rather than go the agent route. Small presses tend to be more willing to pick up things that require some work. These days Agents and the Big 5 seem to want things already in finished form and due to the volume of submissions they get, they can be awful selective. Check the publishers on some other works similar to yours and look them up. You might get lucky here!
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Oct 19, 2020 16:07
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I would avoid small presses as a rule, though that's just my opinion. You'll sell very little and they may gently caress you over. The only small presses I'd trust, like Subterranean, usually do special editions of already published books. Maybe I'm ignorant of some great small press renaissance in the past few years.
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Oct 19, 2020 18:01
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General Battuta posted:I would avoid small presses as a rule, though that's just my opinion. You'll sell very little and they may gently caress you over. The only small presses I'd trust, like Subterranean, usually do special editions of already published books. All the big name genre author's I've had the opportunity to speak with over the last few years are recommending looking at all 3 avenues of publishing for new(er) authors. Namely The Big 5, Self Publishing, and Indie/Small Presses. Small Presses are definitely worth checking out and doing your homework will help avoid getting screwed. The gist of things as I understand them is that the big guys are taking more and giving the author less every year in their royalty contracts. Some of them have become especially egregious by not allowing the author to publish any other works within several months of the big press's publishing date of their work for fear of "Cannibalizing their audience" or some such nonsense. This essentially slashes the possibility of a non A-List author managing to make a living writing. The flip side is Small Presses tend to be much more likely to have more generous terms in their contracts. Small Presses also have a tendency to adopt practices from anywhere they can to boost their sales numbers. Small Presses aren't all sugar and spice and everything nice. Small presses aren't likely to get your book on the shelf at Barnes and Noble. They are pretty bad options for certain types of books as well. For instance, Middle Grade is especially difficult for a Small Press due to the relationships required to get the books out there. Small Presses are a huge mixed bag. There are good ones, and there are terrible ones. Do your research, look at other stuff they have published before, check them out within your writing communities.
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Oct 19, 2020 19:05
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Zaepho posted:All the big name genre author's I've had the opportunity to speak with over the last few years are recommending looking at all 3 avenues of publishing for new(er) authors. Have any of the ones you've spoken with worked personally with small presses? It would be cool to get the thoughts of someone with experience in multiple avenues.
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Oct 19, 2020 22:50
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Have any of the ones you've spoken with worked personally with small presses? It would be cool to get the thoughts of someone with experience in multiple avenues. Kevin J Anderson has for one. Granted he also owns a small press. He also currently runs a Publishing MA program out of Colorado Western. He is also where I learned about the crazy limitations the big guys have started to include in their contracts. Jonathan Maberry is on the pro-small press wagon as well. I would think largely due to his experience doing a little bit of everything. Jody Lynn Nye has good things to say as well despite her Husband having been an Editor and packager for Tor (I want to say he still is but I can't back that one up) There were a few others who supported the same sentiment but I can't recall them off the top of my head (late nights and many drinks at the Atlanta Westin).
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Oct 20, 2020 00:08
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Have any of the ones you've spoken with worked personally with small presses? It would be cool to get the thoughts of someone with experience in multiple avenues. I've run a what you would call micropress for a while and are friends with a bunch of writers and other small press owners. It's a total crapshoot what you're going to get as evidenced by presses like Chizine and Darkfuse imploding spectacularly and even those that don't implode usually have some issues and unhappy writers under them. That said, most of them are usually closed to submissions due to being buried in manuscripts and having their publishing schedule locked down for 2+ years in advance. If anyone is wondering specifically about one of them I can probably shed some light into it.
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Oct 21, 2020 18:51
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So I've been trying to get into horror writing for a while since it doesn't come as easy to me as comedy/satire, and so for October this year I recently finished my first proper short horror story about https://medium.com/@SlickNickLives/brain-worms-a26c8b7719e2
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Oct 21, 2020 23:48
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Bert of the Forest posted:So I've been trying to get into horror writing for a while since it doesn't come as easy to me as comedy/satire, and so for October this year I recently finished my first proper short horror story about This was readable and I read it through from start to end. I stumbled over this sentence "My family cried for him, holding up mirrors for him, screaming at him to notice." It seems like the tense is wrong but I'm not 100% sure, other goons will be better line readers than me. You should probably economize on language. For example: "I’d soon find myself spending my days trawling through google" could be "I spent days trawling Google" I think the idea is sound. Here's my issues with it: 1. I am absolutely not someone to step on the 'show don't tell' soapbox, but this story is 90% a guy telling me thing so I could never get close to the horror. It's a fine framing device but it's needs scene-meat in between (usually). 2. As a big consumer of horror (mostly film) I understand every good monster is an allegory, but it's a tricky balancing act. You can't be too obvious too soon (usually). I rolled my eyes when I read this: brain worms posted:They said that a single touch from an outside source would cause them to go into some kind of overdrive, eating their way through the marrow more vigorously. No one dared even attempt it. From a horror perspective, it is completely unbelievable that no one dared attempt it. Worse, it betrays the allegory. People obviously do try to remove Qanon brain worms. That it doesn't work is the scary part. "Person believes something stupid and dangerous" can be scary, but it's also mundane and happens to everyone sooner or later. "Person believes something stupid and dangerous and doubles down on stupider and more dangerous and blatantly false things while isolating from family and friends (who try but fail to help them) and seeking others like them" is far more horrifying imo. 3. What does this mean? brain worms posted:A few success stories would occasionally rise to the top, a news piece interviewing a former victim, describing their own roads to the startling revelation that these things were chewing away at their skulls. Stories so familiar, but so different from our own, with the missing link that differentiated our experiences remaining ever intangible. "It was the same... but different. I am completely incapable of describing what I found so different." I like the idea here... other people succeeded, why can't I?? but it doesn't make any sense as described.
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Oct 22, 2020 02:14
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ultrachrist posted:This was readable and I read it through from start to end. I stumbled over this sentence "My family cried for him, holding up mirrors for him, screaming at him to notice." It seems like the tense is wrong but I'm not 100% sure, other goons will be better line readers than me. Thanks for giving it a read! I can appreciate the point that I got a bit overindulgent on trying to use colorful language. For some reason it always feels more like I'm writing "real" horror when I spin up a sentence spaghetti like that. But thanks to your specific callouts I can see what you mean about it interfering with readability/clarity in some key spots. I'll try and loosen up on that the next go around. As for some of the story stuff, I was trying to reign in the scope on this story as much as I could so I could see it through to the end (and so it'd fit in to some limited wordcount communities to help share it around), but I tend to get stuck in the weeds whenever I write horror, so I originally did think about exploring the extra dimension you described, where the brain wormed folks start to isolate themselves/get even nuttier for what it's worth, but mostly cut it to stay focused on the one aspect. But you make a good point about the arbitrary nature of the refusal to TRY to physically intervene and how it betrays the allegory, seems like the simplest way to fix that could be to include a scene where people DO try and remove them physically but fail? And the attempt at removal causes that "dig in your heels" effect instead? You're totally right that it's on the nose though, I probably gotta own that for now, because I'm not sure I have it in me to be subtle about that kind of stuff in the year 2020, and for some reason tackling a topic I'm passionate about served effective at finally squeezing a somewhat spooky story out of myself. Hopefully that will be easier to weave in more organically as I continue. Thanks again for the clear-cut feedback! Bert of the Forest fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Oct 22, 2020 |
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Oct 22, 2020 02:44
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Bert of the Forest posted:Thanks for giving it a read! I can appreciate the point that I got a bit overindulgent on trying to use colorful language. For some reason it always feels more like I'm writing "real" horror when I spin up a sentence spaghetti like that. But thanks to your specific callouts I can see what you mean about it interfering with readability/clarity in some key spots. I'll try and loosen up on that the next go around. No problem. I think your 2nd paragraph is a great idea. As for scope, yeah, flash is everywhere now for internet reading, but flash is hard to write really well. It also naturally discourages wordier styles.
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Oct 22, 2020 16:09
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So Sebmojo solicited input on how to improve Creative Convention. One piece of feedback was that people's individual project threads were going unnoticed since people mostly check their bookmarked threads. People suggested it would be easier to follow up on standalone threads if they were all linked in one place. That thread now exists! We are hoping to increase traffic to threads that tend to otherwise go unnoticed. PLEASE feel free to link any standalone feedback threads in the index thread! Also, add it to your bookmarks or the whole thing kind of doesn't work 
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Oct 26, 2020 12:12
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Hi, I submitted this for a thunderdome which I’ve never done before. Used to write satire in college but it’s been a few years and I’ve never written fiction so I’m sure it’s not great but any critiques/feedback on this would be appreciated. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3908810&perpage=40&noseen=1#post509275544 I don’t think I’m happy with where it went, I think I touched on a few cool ideas but didn’t get a chance to explore them as much as I would have liked. I didn’t have a huge amount of time so that might just be something I can’t do anything about but I’ll address it next time hopefully. Fiction in general is kinda new to me, I personally don’t think I NEED a lot of descriptions as long as it gets the point across but maybe that’s the mistake I’m making. I think in general I just need more practice, which I’ll hopefully get. But yeah any feedback is appreciated, anything you think would have improved readability or just generally made it better.
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Oct 27, 2020 20:06
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Thumbtacks posted:Hi, I submitted this for a thunderdome which I’ve never done before. Used to write satire in college but it’s been a few years and I’ve never written fiction so I’m sure it’s not great but any critiques/feedback on this would be appreciated. Hi Thumbtacks and welcome to Thunderdome! You will most definitely receive critiques in the Thunderdome thread. The judges generally post them within a week of judgment. However, you chose an interesting week to join since there was an unlimited word count where normally judges try to keep it under 2k words. It's a lot to read and critique in a few days. And I think you haven't received any feedback here yet because the link in your post goes to the first page of the Thunderdome thread, rather than straight to your story. Making it easier to find (and also showing that it's not one of the 10k+ word monsters) will hopefully get you a few more eyes on your story. As for my own critique of your story: I like the idea of a moon as a tourist trap. It's kind of the natural scaling up of a concept. Right now, we've got roadside attractions as you drive from one major city to another but in space, it would definitely be a minor moon on your way to the bigger planet. So I think your setup is solid. We've got a guy who wanted to be an explorer of the stars, but all the further he got was a salespitch guy on a moon of Jupiter. But after the setup, the narrative doesn't really go anywhere interesting. Since the entry is so short, it shouldn't spend a ton of time on exposition and backstory like this one did. (This was the week to go hog wild on backstory though since words were just free for the taking.) However, in a flash fiction piece the aim is to establish motivation and any necessary support for that motivation in fewer words so that the story can get back to the growth of the character and any scenes showing how that character will explore their current situation to either get closer to their goal or interact with others based on their goal. What this story does is setup present circumstances, setup past desires and backstory, then provide a short scene in which the character continues to do very little and dies via Chekov's laser gun. It's fairly predictable and nothing interesting happens to the main character who the audience is supposed to care about and want things for them. I was at least hopeful for a second that someone would actually be interested in a timeshare. That would have provided him some agency. Even if he didn't find himself hopping from planet to planet as he'd dreamed, perhaps in a salespitch the reader could see his passion for talking about the beauty of space rocks. But I get the feeling that even had someone asked he wouldn't have actually tried at that either. My biggest advice, for flash fiction especially, is to set up the motivation/desire of the character and then deliver on it by the end of the story. Not necessarily character wants x, character gets x (though obviously that would be good too). But character wants x and this is how x shapes and directs character's interaction with their surroundings. Hope this helps a bit.
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Oct 29, 2020 11:56
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a friendly penguin posted:Hi Thumbtacks and welcome to Thunderdome! That's helpful advice, thank you! It was kind of a weird week yeah and I didn't get a ton of foodback (this is one of the few weeks where there wasn't individual feedback, the judge was just kinda "most of these were fine, these were the really bad ones and these were the really good ones" which was kinda unfortunate) i also joined super late so I was panicking a bit and didn't have a ton of time to write. Like I said I wasn't thrilled with where it went and after the concept i didn't really have anywhere to take it so it kinda just dwindled out. I liked the setting though. I will keep that advice in mind for this week, thank you!
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Oct 29, 2020 19:30
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Thumbtacks posted:That's helpful advice, thank you! It was kind of a weird week yeah and I didn't get a ton of foodback (this is one of the few weeks where there wasn't individual feedback, the judge was just kinda "most of these were fine, these were the really bad ones and these were the really good ones" which was kinda unfortunate) Don't worry! Feedback on individual stories is usually given by multiple judges a few days after judgment. Because of the length of the stories, it will probably be an extra few days, but you will probably see something by late next week.
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Oct 29, 2020 20:55
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Thumbtacks posted:That's helpful advice, thank you! It was kind of a weird week yeah and I didn't get a ton of foodback (this is one of the few weeks where there wasn't individual feedback, the judge was just kinda "most of these were fine, these were the really bad ones and these were the really good ones" which was kinda unfortunate) "really bad one" here there will be there are always crits
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Oct 29, 2020 22:13
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If anyone is interested, here's my experience of using Critters (aka critique.org) for several years. tl;dr I don't really recommend it. So this is a critique group website with a credit system that requires you to send critiques in order to receive them. Fair enough, that makes sense, although the way the system works is a bit weird. You don't actually bank up credits, rather you have to keep your crits/month above a certain level or your story won't be sent out for critique when it reaches the front of the 'queue'. The problem is that the queue is only a few weeks long (possibly due to declining membership numbers?) so if you want to get "full value" you have to be putting a new story into the queue every few weeks. Another issue with the credit system is that you get 1 credit no matter how long the story is, so stories longer than 5,000 words usually get very few crits. If you post a story under 5k with an enticing title then you will probably get 5-10 crits, which I think is pretty good. The interface of the site is pretty ancient. All the stories have to be submitted in plaintext and get sent out by email which is weird but you get used to it. I eventually changed the settings so I didn't get any emails and just read the stories on the website. The rules of the group are sort of "hugboxy". The central tenet is that you aren't allowed to say anything is objectively bad, you have to frame it as your opinion. So you can't say "this makes no sense" but you can say "this makes no sense ~to me~". Once you get used to the style it is very easy to be critical of things without breaking the rules, and conversely, it's easy to tell when someone hated your story even though they can't say it openly. This means that the crits don't really sting any less than the "brutal honesty" style crits you get in Thunderdome. The actual crits you get are pretty good - most people make a genuine effort to help you improve your writing. The stories posted are pretty variable in quality. I've read a few pieces that wouldn't look out of place in a pro market. On the other hand it's not uncommon to read pieces with spelling errors, abrupt non-endings, and other issues that make it seem like they didn't put a lot of effort into them. This is sort of depressing and makes you lose respect for the whole process. All that said, I do think that every story I put through the critique process was improved significantly, and some of them even got published. So I wouldn't say it's a complete waste of time, but I feel like there could be a better critique community out there somewhere. I'm curious to hear if anyone else has experience with other similar sites/workshops.
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Oct 30, 2020 08:09
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Scribophile seems it's pretty similar to critters. Does anyone have any experience with it? Also, https://www.reddit.com/r/DestructiveReaders/
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Oct 30, 2020 18:23
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Sailor Viy posted:If anyone is interested, here's my experience of using Critters (aka critique.org) for several years. tl;dr I don't really recommend it. Thanks for the in depth review. I was considering going this route, or some other similar route. Has anyone had luck getting crits from local in person writing clubs? There are a couple of ones near me that apparently are of some renown, and I was considering joining one. New to the idea, so I don't even know if that's something that writing clubs do.
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Nov 2, 2020 17:09
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lol i personally havent but ive joined 2, one at the local library which was a masturbation emporium and a writing group that never did any writing if theyre known for being good tho yea why not try them i suppose. idk what else a writing club should do besides write & crit
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Nov 2, 2020 18:42
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Rad-daddio posted:Has anyone had luck getting crits from local in person writing clubs? There are a couple of ones near me that apparently are of some renown, and I was considering joining one. New to the idea, so I don't even know if that's something that writing clubs do. Ehh. I was a member of a local writing group for a few years, and some of the crits were okay, but I had three big issues that led me to drop: 1) The vast majority of crits were line edits. If you're looking for line edits, great! If you're looking for an overall gauge on the effectiveness of your piece (structure, characters, themes, world, etc), that was above their paygrade. 2) The types of writing submitted were too broad. We had short stories, novel chapters, poems, memoirs, graphic novels, speeches, CVs; you name it, we had it. While all those are legit forms of writing (except CVs, gently caress those), the critiques from people who didn't know each other's genres and mediums were less helpful than the ones that did. 3) The only comparison anyone ever used for anything was Harry Potter. Shut the gently caress up about Harry Potter. They were fine books for what they were, but there are other books, Jesus Christ please read them.
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Nov 2, 2020 20:28
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Just a reminder that the Traveling CCircus Showcase of Wonders Show will be departing CC soon for its whirlwind adventure around the forums. Share your art, writing, animations, scrawlings, or whatever else you're proud of with the rest of the forums and see what goons from other subfora are up to!
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Nov 3, 2020 22:19
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Can anyone suggest a bare-bones personal wiki program that's still being maintained and updated? I've been using Notebook but I'm worried it's going to crash and burn one of these days. Specifically I want something no-frills and doesn't need internet to work. Is WikidPad the only solution here?
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Nov 5, 2020 23:52
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queserasera posted:Can anyone suggest a bare-bones personal wiki program that's still being maintained and updated? I've been using Notebook but I'm worried it's going to crash and burn one of these days. Specifically I want something no-frills and doesn't need internet to work. Is WikidPad the only solution here? I've not talked to any writers who use a wiki program (though it seems like a pretty useful idea, actually), so I'm not sure this is the best place to ask. Maybe I'm wrong and people will jump in with suggestions, but I would personally see if there are any other threads focused on wikis or personal software?
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Nov 6, 2020 01:51
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Oh no a double post, ummmmmm....guess I better think of a fiction advice adjacent thing to say pretty soon here It's NaNoWriMo and we have a thread for it! https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3945506 Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Nov 6, 2020 |
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Nov 6, 2020 01:52
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queserasera posted:Can anyone suggest a bare-bones personal wiki program that's still being maintained and updated? I've been using Notebook but I'm worried it's going to crash and burn one of these days. Specifically I want something no-frills and doesn't need internet to work. Is WikidPad the only solution here? There was a Tor article that talked about wikis: https://www.tor.com/2019/01/07/how-to-create-a-wiki-to-support-your-fantasy-worldbuilding/ I don't personally use one, I just use Evernote or a Google Doc. I remember seeing a plug for some sort of world building software from the tabletop RPG YouTuber WASD20 - if I can find that specific ad and the name of the software I'll come back and let you know.
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Nov 6, 2020 09:37
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queserasera posted:Can anyone suggest a bare-bones personal wiki program that's still being maintained and updated? I've been using Notebook but I'm worried it's going to crash and burn one of these days. Specifically I want something no-frills and doesn't need internet to work. Is WikidPad the only solution here? I've been using MoinMoin—I'm not sure I'd describe it as bare-bones but it does the job easily enough and it was very simple to set up to run locally. I mostly picked it from among the available options because it's maintained and because I'm comfortable with Python so it has been easy to make modifications or add little features I wanted/needed. Leng posted:I don't personally use one, I just use Evernote or a Google Doc. Dr. Kloctopussy posted:I've not talked to any writers who use a wiki program (though it seems like a pretty useful idea, actually), so I'm not sure this is the best place to ask. Wallet fucked around with this message at 14:57 on Nov 6, 2020 |
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Nov 6, 2020 14:54
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Google docs just runs like hot garbage probably because of their server load. I downloaded Libre Office and haven’t looked back.
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Nov 12, 2020 00:53
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queserasera posted:Can anyone suggest a bare-bones personal wiki program that's still being maintained and updated? I've been using Notebook but I'm worried it's going to crash and burn one of these days. Specifically I want something no-frills and doesn't need internet to work. Is WikidPad the only solution here? Leng posted:I remember seeing a plug for some sort of world building software from the tabletop RPG YouTuber WASD20 - if I can find that specific ad and the name of the software I'll come back and let you know. Happened to click on the link for "Offers" under "Writer's Resources" on the NaNoWriMo website and found it! World Anvil - there's currently a NaNoWriMo offer for 25% off with the code NANOWRIMO. I have not used it whatsoever, it just seems to come up in a lot of the world building YouTube videos I watch.
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Nov 16, 2020 15:13
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HIJK posted:Google docs just runs like hot garbage probably because of their server load. I downloaded Libre Office and haven’t looked back. Agreed. I did a lot of writing with that and it ran perfect. I still use google docs now, mainly because it's easy and I'm lazy.
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Nov 18, 2020 21:24
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I was using UltraOffice for a while, but it kept doing this weird thing where 3/4 of the buttons would disappear  and everything would look... off, like the program would become haunted for a few weeks. Even if I did a clean install. Weird AF. I'm trying LibreOffice today!I'm going to finish my book. I have a book I have wanted to finish for about three years now. I was working on it when I would get inspired. Now I'm trying to stick to a schedule. I'm a part-time teacher, which is often a full-time job because reality exists, but I've committed to at least 12 hours a week (it's not much, but it's more than 0 hours). I'm going to check in with this thread in the mornings as a way of getting my head on straight, even if it's just to read the title. Thanks for being here.
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Nov 19, 2020 18:15
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not to be that guy but you might want to check the long walk next month or whatever. ten bux is a good incentive, as is being immortalized on the wall of shame 
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Nov 19, 2020 21:32
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A schedule is key. I was doing an hour a day in the evening, but then earlier this year when I went perma WFH and didn't need to commute, I added 45 min in the morning and it makes a huge difference. Especially if I gently caress up on one of them, I know I have the other and the day doesn't feel like a waste.
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Nov 20, 2020 04:37
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| # ? May 21, 2024 05:48 |
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A schedule is a big help, especially when you get to the review/proof read/edit part and you just want to be done with it.
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Nov 21, 2020 04:57
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