Fiction Writing Advice and Discussion: Read. Write. Crit. Repeat.

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > Fiction Writing Advice and Discussion: Read. Write. Crit. Repeat.

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Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

magnificent7 posted:

Going on 5 years now I believe. But - to be fair. I think I replaced the first one. After the second one half a year later I decided F that just leave it as a bitter hostile reminder that I continue to suck at this game.

if you go in again and HM or better i'll change your av to something cool (or ask mojo to, more likely)

# ¿ Sep 22, 2017 19:18

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 09:44

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

magnificent7 posted:

I love when dreams give you a great story. I hate deciphering my almost-asleep voice trying to narrate that story via voice memo.

I mean. What?

I don't have anything helpful to say but this made me laugh

# ¿ Sep 29, 2017 03:40

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

magnificent7 posted:

For the first time in my life, I received a TDome prompt and finished and revised my story in the same day.

Now, I'm gonna sit on it for two days, and then read it with fresh eyes, and spend the weekend bathed in self-loathing.

tbh I just skip straight to the self loathing

# ¿ Oct 17, 2017 23:24

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Exmond, I am pretty familiar with all your stories at this point so I have some macro level advice (and I think I've told you this before):

You need to sort of back off from the wacky pew pew laser explosion heist dragon fights and focus on making your characters feel like people. Any time your story leans even a little bit close to having some meaningful characterization, you seem to end up burying it in explosions or stock conflicts that are more fit for Saturday morning cartoons.

This is why I keep telling you to kind of shift gears and do something tight and focused on real-seeming characters. I think part of you even tries to do this. If I go over all your existing stories and strip away the wacky/fantastical elements, we get:

The last of the billgoats gruff trying to follow his therapist's orders to be more social
A CPS worker with a dark past trying to get a kid out of a bad situation that's all too familiar
A story about a limbless kid who makes a Faustian bargain for fame, and a father who just wants to do right by his difficult family
A teacher who wants to prove herself to her judgmental students
A pair of lovers who must resort to crime to stay together, even if they know it can't last
A cop has to do one last job, dies a hero, still thinking about his ex.

Those are all fine enough premises IMO. The problem is that they get buried in cartoonish, over-the-top antics and lasers and hawkmen. That tends to give short fiction a flat, zany feeling, in my experience. I think, to some extent, you can get readers to overlook basic mechanical errors if you trick their brains into caring about your characters like people. That's not to say that you shouldn't strive for good proofreading, but like...some commas and stuff are NOT the reason your stories are getting mentioned negatively, at least IMO. I think it's more the fact that you always have to use so many words on explaining magic, monsters, reminding us that your cop is using LASERS PEW PEW, weird bee curses, and so on.

I really, really REALLY want you to write a stripped-down story about two humans having a meaningful exchange. No scifi/fantasy stuff, just people. Borrow from real life, if you have to. Shamelessly steal a moment that made you, a human being (i assume), feel something. The punctuation and etc we can work on, and WILL get better with repetition (I already see improvements in your writing itself), but you're going to have to actively think about how to bring more groundedness and humanity to your stories IMO.

Simbyotic posted:

Can someone explain to me why I lost this last TD? Apart from some awful punctuation issues, and a weird phrases or two - I shouldn't have posted it that early, I've learned my lesson, - I actually quite like my little story.

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3803906&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=90#post477466445

I'll try to do a crit when I have time, but the short answer is usually: Greenness. If you haven't written a lot of fiction, it's going to show. Writing more will give us more opportunities to deduce what you're loving up regularly.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2017 18:16

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

I like letting people read first drafts as I write them because I figure if I can keep a bunch of acerbic goons even a little interested in my lovely draft it bodes well for the project.

Granted I'm still in the process of loving up a bunch of novels but I reckon I'm gonna figure it out any day now.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2018 19:17

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Stuporstar posted:

Ursula K Leguin's book on writing is on the Kindle daily deal today if anyone's interested.

Snagged it. Thanks for the heads up

# ¿ Jan 27, 2018 17:52

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

if you're posting in this thread you're not writing the thing

also lmao at troll ideas guy accusing someone of a meltdown within like 5 bullshit posts

# ¿ Jan 29, 2018 03:02

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

There is actually a pretty solid community for critique and novel support that sprang up from TD. Most critiquers aren't mean, they're just not worried about whether they hurt your feelings or not. Just like publishers don't care when they reject your heart-felt magnum opus. And while I won't claim thunderdome is responsible for anyone's achievements in publishing (well, except for the times people get published as a result of "rushes" we do occasionally), you will certainly be way more prepared for rejection.

idk, every time the whole "TD is too mean" conversation comes up, I get confused because I am like a squishy goopy emotional melted marshmallow of a human being, and being around true meanness gives me like an anxiety attack. And yet I've been around for more than 5 years, too.

Crabrock is terrible though, so you should do what we do and ignore him.

# ¿ Jan 29, 2018 20:11

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Sociopastry posted:

How in the gently caress do I do character descriptions

my head hurts

less is more, imo

# ¿ Feb 2, 2018 00:27

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Ironic Twist posted:

was it written in a clipped tone of voice

reported

# ¿ Feb 3, 2018 02:40

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

sebmojo posted:

goood puns

Unfortunately I hate puns, because I'm a horrible fusing of flesh and metal that breaks every law of both god and man.

Also I just realised that handing out whimsical six hour probations for pun chains is a thing I can do, haha.

Do with this information what you will, people of CC

oh no he's power tripping (no pun intended)

# ¿ Feb 3, 2018 09:21

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

The dark and stormy dream gazed at itself in the mirror on the morning before the first day of cop school. Somewhere, a dog barked.

# ¿ Feb 7, 2018 20:23

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Phil Moscowitz posted:

On a whim, I started reading the Fifth Season by NK Jemisin. It's a good premise, and interesting, but...it's all in present tense. And one of the viewpoint characters is written in loving second person.

It's a struggle to get through. I mean I assume maybe there is a point to her writing this in second person present tense, but I don't see it. Even if I was a psychokenetic black woman lol

There's a point and it's really good, IMO.

I think present tense is fine, and having read a lot of short scifi, i see no reason to adhere to that guy's list religiously. Some of it is good to keep in mind, though.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2018 20:06

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Phil Moscowitz posted:

Is the point something that is revealed later in the book, or is it just �you are part of the action, this is so immersive�

I�m going to stick with it, because like I said I like the premise and the writing otherwise. So far just seems gimmicky and distracting.

There is an actual point and it's kinda neat.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2018 22:33

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

writers should try all the things always, but they should be prepared to suck at it most of the time

# ¿ Apr 9, 2018 19:11

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

all writing should be 3rd/past, all pizza should be cheese, all chicken should be nuggets

if you try to get fancy with it you might upset the grognard hegemony of genrefic fandom

# ¿ Apr 9, 2018 19:14

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

we live in the time of endless reboots, honestly i would chew all my limbs off if it meant unconventional and outsider art had its day in the mainstream

like, i'm not even a cultured or well-read person, but right now the pendulum of taste is swung all the way in the direction of what is familiar and effortlessly palatable and it's, imo, dumb af

# ¿ Apr 9, 2018 19:20

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Mirage posted:

...huffing your own farts and putting a lot of effort into it.

this is literally my definition of all writing, so

# ¿ Apr 9, 2018 20:37

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Stuporstar posted:

Most of what I write is bad as gently caress Idc

# ¿ Apr 10, 2018 00:34

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

MockingQuantum posted:

Nothing wrong with a cheap chromebook + gdocs offline mode.

This is how I roll and it's great for the "just write" phase of a project.

# ¿ Jul 18, 2018 23:44

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Manofmanusernames posted:

I'm currently writing my novel longhand. When I'm done I'll type it up on gdocs.

Y'all are weak

Personally, I can't write fast enough by hand to get the words out at a satisfactory pace, which prevents me from getting into a flow. I write best when I can basically stop noticing the "interface" of my body, which means being very comfortable and getting the words out quickly, without worrying about a cramped hand. I envy those with quicker, more sturdy digits than mine.

magnificent7 posted:

Just like my struggle in dating, I'm having problems with length, it's just too much for the thunderdome.

Past three weeks I've signed up, and only finalized one of the three, not because I suck in general, no, but because I suck at finding the nugget that'll tell the story I have in mind.

Conversely, if I try to write a short blip of a tale about a single moment, turning moment, in a bigger picture tale, it's full of fluff and no story.

How in the poo poo do you make a tale that captures the events necessary for the payoff, without either lopping off most of it so the story is just confusing, or giving up because you're just too long. I mean the story - the STORY is just too long.

Adding to what Djeser said, it's amazing how much "telling" you can do up front in very short fiction. You can tell the reader straight up what the deal is, so long as you then take that concept and build on it/subvert it/comment on it in some way.

I think of novels like a movie, short stories/novellas like a TV show, and flash fiction as a camera panning around one single object for a few minutes. I find very short fiction is a good place to explore a single contrivance, moment, feeling, object, scene, etc etc etc from multiple angles.

# ¿ Jul 25, 2018 02:20

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

I'm having the most success with a pattern of outlining, drafting, loving up, re-outlining with the new trajectory in mind, loving that draft up, re-outlining again, and eventually winding up with what feels like a final, realized plot.

My current WiP began as a short story (10K words) that I rewrote almost 3 full times. Then I outlined a lovely novel, got 20 or 30k into that novel, realized my trajectory was too hosed to be worth it, re-re-outlined, started another lovely attempt, took a "break" to write another short story that takes place in my novel's setting, realized that short story actually made decent novel content, and now I'm redrafting from there.

Everything up until now has felt like draft 0. There's a smoothness to this attempt that hasn't been there before, and I feel like I know the characters and setting a lot better.

Can't wait to see how I gently caress it up!

# ¿ Aug 2, 2018 03:46

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

After The War posted:

It's a stamp they only break out when goons submit work: "Thunderdome Loser, Do not Read."

This made me laugh

# ¿ Aug 30, 2018 04:45

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

I'm of two minds. In a fiction advice thread, there are a lot of people who are new to writing and need to foremost practice clarity and mechanics. I wouldn't tell someone new to writing that they should be coining words, or verbing nouns, or whatever.

On the other hand, it's important to not get too axiomatic about things, because sometimes the rules of language just plain don't accommodate an idea or image. If I'm engaged in a novel and once in a while a character gravels or thrums or burbles or whatever, I'm going to just take that as part of the flavor.

But yeah I don't think anyone would disagree with me if I said writers shouldn't do something just because it's easy to do wrong.

# ¿ Sep 8, 2018 22:21

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

I write a lot of male first person POVs and I can't think of a time where I've had my protag stare at anyone's tits. Presently, we tend to socialize males and females differently, so I use that to my advantage when establishing the voice of a piece. Mind you, I don't like the differences in how we socialize people of different genders, but it's a useful thing for writers.

I kind of played with this in a series of short stories I wrote. They're all about a sort of hobo messiah, written in the first person. The first story seemed to give people the impression that the main character was male (which makes sense, 'messiah' is a male-gendered word), so it was fun to kind of let the reader figure out, over the course of 4 stories, that the protag was actually a young woman with ratty pink hair and a serious case of schizotypal personality disorder.

Also, that naked fairy from the last page is gonna have some gnarly stretchmarks from those ample boobs danglin' all the time

# ¿ Sep 29, 2018 18:57

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Paladinus posted:

Sorry to disturb, but I am a big fan of wise and adventurous female characters. When someone linked me to a particular post in this thread, I couldn't help but try to amplify concerns raised in it.

https://soundcloud.com/stanley-swanson-150846885/big-tittied-pixie-character

This is fantastic :allears:

# ¿ Sep 30, 2018 19:05

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

BurningBeard posted:

Hey thread. If hypothetically I had a substantial beginning couple chapters for a novel that I'd like critiqued, is it safe to assume it would need its own thread? I lurk here all the time, and the Thunderdome approach isn't really my thing, but there's some really brilliant work happening here and I am short on people who'll be tough but fair. I can't work in a vacuum, so here I am.

The thing is, while I've done enough edits to make this stuff presentable, I am also pantsing through it, and the length is such that I don't want to waste anyone's time. Is it okay if it perhaps lacks focus? There's larger overarching questions about the narrative I just can't answer yet, but I feel all right about the voice and direction for what is there and it would help to hear from others as to whether I'm way off the mark before I did deeper on my current course.

Needless to say I know I don't post here really ever but I'd be happy to offer critique in kind if it's wanted.

Make a thread and link it here. That generally gets the most traffic. I'll try to take a look, depending on length and how much time i have this week!

# ¿ Oct 24, 2018 09:00

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Covok posted:

It's a gay erotica novel so like read at your own caution.

quote:

crimson empress

gently caress instead of writing i should have focused on building a yaoi empire

e:

Sitting Here fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Nov 6, 2018

# ¿ Nov 6, 2018 06:48

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

you write historical fiction like Mork from Ork. that's not a criticism

# ¿ Nov 6, 2018 18:21

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

After The War posted:

There is definitely an "addressing racism through horror" scene out there. Not exactly the kind of fiction writing the thread is generally about, but I have a friend who has really made a splash with a Harlem Renaissance Cthulhu Mythos book.

yeah we try to keep it mostly about boob fairies and yaoi

# ¿ Nov 20, 2018 05:41

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

SelenicMartian posted:

No, no, the battery is the awesome bit. It's captured baby lightning.

Are there good examples of stories with animal characters, not for the stories themselves, but for the approaches to describing nature from a small animal/bird perspective? I looked through a few bits of The Wind in the Willows, but can't think of anything else. Tried Watership Down, but it has a more remote, human, view of the events.
It's not even for a full thing, just for a chapter or two in the middle of something completely different.

Song of the Crow by Layne Maheu is my favorite animal POV.

Oh and I think writing is going to have to contend with cell phones and etc eventually so the more people who try it and gently caress up the better. Our reality is going to continue to seem more and more scifi from a literary perspective and we can't only write pre-information age stories and spec fic.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2019 08:01

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Whalley posted:

I've done it in Thunderdome and it was an absolute loving delight, it was surprisingly easy, I loved the result, and I'd do it again any time.

Basically we talked for a bit about ideas and settled on a concept; I wrote a draft, they wrote a draft, then we worked back and forth to edit the best bits of each together. It was super open communication and neither of us was precious about our ideas or words. It's pretty easy to not get into a fight with someone if you respect each other and listen to each other!

The way I've heard it done in longer form generally involves a lot of brainstorming, then essentially taking turns with chapters and editing each other's stuff (ie, one person writes the even chapters, and edits the odd). You cannot collab if you or the person you're working with is precious and a baby about changes, and you cannot collab if both of you can't communicate openly and respectfully.

as the other half of this collab, I agree that is was super fun.

What worked about it was that I think both of us were very enthusiastic about the other person's ideas, and there was an overall good personality fit. Neither of us went into it with any hills to die on, so to speak.

That said, a good personality fit is really the key factor; I could imagine collaborating with someone who needs total creative control, but I would pretty much have to take off my 'ideas' hat and work solely on the prose itself. And then there are people who should probably always work alone because nothing anyone else produces will ever match what's in their head.

It's worth being honest with yourself before you embark on a collaboration, because it definitely requires the ability to concede things you might be really, really enthusiastic about.

# ¿ Feb 21, 2019 03:48

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Fruity20 posted:

How complex is the process of publishing? (I'm not super interested in the endeavor since most of my ideas are super out-there but it's fun to learn new things).

'Publishing' is a pretty broad word. It could be as simple as emailing a short story to a magazine, or it could be as complicated as doing all of your own cover designs and marketing and so on.

Traditional publishing is probably simpler than self-publishing; once you get your manuscript prepped and your query written, it's pretty much up to agents and publishers to get your work out there, should they choose to accept it. You're going to be dealing with a LOT of rejection, though.

Self-publishing seems to be a lot more work (I have no personal experience with this), but it also allows you to release your content on your own terms. Still, you're responsible for editing, formatting, graphic design, and marketing.

Actually, just read this good quote from the OP:

Dr. Kloctopussy posted:

MISCELLANEOUS TOPICS:
- Publishing
- Writing Tools
- Book Recommendations
- Mental Struggles and Substance Abuse

PUBLISHING

Now that you have a finished, well-polished piece of fiction, you are ready to start thinking about publishing. Oh, you don�t? Then none of this matters right now.

There are three main ways of publishing novels: Traditional publishing through one of the �Big Five� publishers and their many imprints, publishing through a small press, and self-publishing.

(See bottom of this post for publishing short stories.)

Traditional Publishing with the Big Five

This is it! You�re a star now! No wait, you�re a bottom- or mid-list author barely making a living, whhhhyyyyyyyyyyyyy??? Maybe I shouldn�t preface this section with such depressing words, but it�s the truth. Even moderately successful authors aren�t the stars you think of when you think of published authors. Consider this: how many published authors can you name? Is it one hundred? Is it one hundred currently publishing authors in the genre that you want to write in? Okay, this is just depressing. Here�s the thing: getting published isn�t like becoming the next J. K. Rowling or whoever. It�s probably more like becoming the next Marissa Meyer if you are insanely lucky. No, not the Yahoo lady, that�s Marissa Mayer. See what I mean now?

If you�re going to try this route, it�s worth knowing a bit about the industry. There are five huge publishing companies in the US market: Penguin Random House, Hachette, Macmillan, HarperCollins, and Simon & Schuster. It was the big six until Penguin and Random House merged in 2013, arguably in response to OMG ebooks. If you walk into a physical book store, chances are every book you pull off a shelf not labeled �LOCAL!!� will be published by one of these companies. They each have a large array of �imprints� covering different genres. A lot of these different imprints are smaller publishers they have acquired over the years. Examples include: Tor/Forge, one of the most prolific sci-fi/fantasy publishers, is an imprint of Macmillan. Song of Ice and Fire is by Bantam, an imprint owned by Random House. The hugely popular A-is-for mystery series by Sue Grafton is published by Holt, a subsidiary of Macmillan. Twilight was by Little, Brown Books for Young Readers, an imprint owned by Hachette. The huge romance imprint Avon is also owned by Hachette. Even Inifinite Jest by David Foster Wallace was published by Back Bay Books, an imprint owned by Hachette. OKAY?

Except weirdo Scholastic. Who the gently caress knows about them. so far as I can tell they are not owned by any of the Big Five, but managed to pick up Harry Potter AND the Hunger Games. GOOD JOB YOU.

Here are the benefits of a Big-5 publisher, as I understand them:
1) you will almost always work with a loving amazing editor.
2) They will give you an advance on your royalties. That means some amount of upfront cash. Maybe only $5k, maybe a billion dollars. Probably closer to $5k. These come out of whatever royalties your book eventually makes. It�s not a special bonus.
3) They handle some of the marketing (sometimes not a benefit. Also, you might want to some marketing on your own if you are mid-list because they won�t put a lot of money into it)
4) They will get your book onto the shelves of real physical book stores, where I hear some people still go?? They might even pay for an end-cap or cover-facing-out display! Wooooo!
5) They handle cover art and getting blurbs and stuff

Here are some possible downsides to going with a Big-5 publisher, as I understand them:
1) You effectively lose ultimate control over your book. For the most part the publishing company will listen to your input, but they aren�t really obligated to follow it.
2) The publisher has exclusive rights to your book for probably a long time. You�re stuck with them and what they do for you.
3) You�re going to cry when you see these royalty rates for the first time: �Typically, an author can expect to receive the following royalties: Hardback edition: 10% of the retail price on the first 5,000 copies; 12.5% for the next 5,000 copies sold, then 15% for all further copies sold. Paperback: 8% of retail price on the first 150,000 copies sold, then 10% thereafter.� (https://www.alanjacobson.com/writers-toolkit/the-business-of-publishing/) Ebook royalties are typically 25% � thanks Apple!! NOTE: for many authors you will still make more money through a traditional publisher due to the increased visibility and non-ebook markets.

How do you get this sweet sweet publishing deal??

Most of the time, you have to get an agent.

Every now and then, you can submit a manuscript directly to the publisher. Some of the romance imprints take unsolicited manuscripts all the time, and I know Tor accepted them for a brief period at least once. Not sure if that�s something they open on a regular basis. You can look up the imprints in your genre, then look at the internet to see what they accept. For example, here is what Penguin Random House had to say when I wrote this: http://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/faqs/#manuscripts-how-do-i-submit-my-manuscript-or-abstract-to-penguin-random-house-for-publication-2. DAW, one their sci-fi/fantasy imprints accepts unsolicited submissions. But it�s not the imprint that publishes Terry Brooks, Jim Butcher, Laurel K. Hamilton, or China Mieville. It is the one that publishes Patrick Rothfuss though!

Anyway, generally speaking you have to get an agent.

How do you get an agent? VERY CAREFULLY.

http://www.sfwa.org/other-resources/for-authors/writer-beware/agents/

It�s actually not terribly difficult to find a legit agent. Basically, avoid anyone who charges. For anything. Including referring you to paid services such as editors. Agents make money by selling books to publishers, not by charging authors. They get a percentage of the royalties.

Finding an agent you want (and who wants you) is harder. You must find an agent who represents the kind of book you have written. You must have already finished your book and made it as good as you possibly can. Only then can you start looking for an agent. Do NOT query agents if you haven�t finished a manuscript or if you only have a first (or even second) draft. Make that poo poo good poo poo.

There are a few ways of finding appropriate agents to submit to:
1) look in the acknowledgments section of books in your genre. Authors generally thank their agent.
2) Directories such as Agent Query (http://www.agentquery.com) also have listings. You can try looking in your local library for copies of their yearly books instead of paying for their online services or buying the books yourself!!
3) There are occasionally events on twitter where agents post what they are looking for.

Always check the agent�s website and look at:
1) recent clients and sales
2) whether they are accepting new clients
3) their querying guidelines (make sure you follow these to the letter!)

The next step is querying the agents you�ve found. You can query more than one agent at once, and you probably should because turn-around times aren�t great and failure rates are high. Queries are typically very short emails intended to tempt the agent into reading a few sample chapters of your book, but see above regarding always reading specific querying guidelines and following them to the absolute letter.

A good guide to querying is http://queryshark.blogspot.com. It�s run by a literary agent and has hundreds of examples of query letters critiqued and improved.

After you get an agent, they sell your book to a publishing house. Hopefully. Frankly, I don�t know much about that. Also, you write a second novel and they try to sell that to publishers, too.

Once your book is bought by a publisher, the editing/revising process starts. You get a bunch of notes and have to make a bunch of changes and it totally freaks you out.

That�s what I�ve heard.

Small Presses

The main thing about small presses is that there a ton of them and they are all different. There�s not really a good way to summarize them collectively, but here is my attempt: Small presses will generally provide some part of the array of the services provided by one of the big publishers, but on a smaller scale. This primarily covers editing, promotion, and accounting. Each small press offers a different range of services and on a different level, while taking a different percentage level of royalties. You will need to cover any other expenses or publishing needs on your own. An example would be a small press that covers cover design, proof-reading, and has a small advertising budget that advertises all of their books together. You might still want to pay for any higher-level editing that you need (you probably need it, see posts on editing/feedback), and further promotion for your book individually.

If you see a �small press� that asks you for money, they are not a legitimate publisher. They are a vanity press. If you want to pay someone to give you hard-copies of your book, then just acknowledge that�s what you want to do and find the cheapest vendor who will print bound-books with custom covers. It�s probably FedEx-Kinkos or similar. If someone is saying you need to front them the money for advertising� they are probably lying. Do a ton of google searching (probably for publisher name + scam) and check out the self-pub thread.

Self-Publishing

Check out The self-publishing thread

Sundae is putting together some information on Self Publishing for me to include here! Check back soon!

Self-publishing used to be the realm of scammers taking advantage of desperate authors who could find no one else willing to take them on. Key words there: used to be. Soon, these kinds of introductory sentences won�t even be necessary. With the rise of ebooks, self-publishing has become a legitimate, and in some cases more profitable, option for publishing and selling your work. The most consistently profitable genres for self-publishing right now are romance and erotica.

The most important thing you need to know about self-publishing is this: you are literally taking on all the functions of a publisher. That means seeing that your book is decently edited, has a cover, has a blurb, and is promoted.

There is an absolutely wonderful thread here on the forums where many knowledgeable and successful people give excellent advice on self-publishing, so go listen to them, not me.

Publishing Short Stories

This is an extremely brief summary (mostly cribbed directly from Grizzled Patriarch�s OP in the short fiction thread). So, for excellent and detailed advice, go to the publishing short fiction thread

Publishing short stories is a different ballgame than publishing novels. But, the facts that you need to have a finished, polished work before you submit, and that you need to CAREFULLY read every bit of the market�s submission guidelines remain the same, though.

What are �markets� you speak of??
Short fiction is published by magazine-like-things, which are referred to as �markets.� I say magazine-like-things, because while most markets used to send out collections on a regular basis, in a printed journal, to subscribers, that is no longer true. Most markets now publish online (either in addition to a paper journal, or not). Nonetheless, many of them still retain a format similar to a magazine: they publish groups of stories (and often non-fiction articles and illustrations) at regular intervals, referred to as issues. Pretty much all markets are focused on particular types of stories, e.g. Literary, Mystery, Childrens, SciFi, Fantasy, Horror (Although combos of the last 3 are fairly common). As always, the best way to know what kind of stories a place is looking for is to read what it publishes.

Many markets have word-count restrictions (i.e. will only publish stories within a certain range of word counts). Here is a loose guide to word-count terminology:
Flash Fiction: Less than 1000
Short Story: 1000 - 7500
Novelette: 7500 - 15,000
Novella: 15,000 - 40,000
Each market has their own limits, so make sure you read their submission guides carefully! For example, Clarkesworld accepts stories from 1000-16,000 words. Tin House accepts stories up to 10,000 words. Tin House also only accepts unsolicited submissions between September and May (as of this writing). Again, READ SUBMISSION GUIDELINES CAREFULLY.

Note: Most genre markets (at least) do not allow simultaneous submissions (sending your story to more than one market at once).

Cool, how do I find a good market?
There are two major options: Duotrope and The Submission Grinder. Duotrope costs $5 a month (or you can buy a year of it for $50), while The Submission Grinder is totally free. If you are just starting out or not submitting too often, the Grinder is more than good enough. Both of them let you search for markets with all sorts of handy filters, like word count, pay rate, genre, response time, etc.

Duotrope's advantages are:
More accurate data on acceptance rates, turnaround times, etc.
A more intuitive UI (in my opinion) and a few other similar quality-of-life upgrades
Support for poetry and non-fiction markets

Something else to consider is that The Grinder skews slightly more towards sci-fi and fantasy markets, and tends to have pretty thin data (and fewer market listings) for "literary" journals. It's not a huge deal, but if you are planning to submit on a frequent basis and don't mind the cost, Duotrope is a pretty handy tool.

Another site worth keeping an eye on is Funds For Writers, which posts a lot of submission calls for contests, grants, and writer in residence programs.

If you are writing genre stuff, ravenkult recommends checking out The Horror Tree for submission, contest, and anthology calls before they hit Duotrope and The Grinder.

How do I submit?
99% of the time, it's incredibly fast and easy to send stories out. The vast majority of journals use Submittable now, which lets you type your name + a short cover letter / bio, attach your story, and send it. Submittable even has its own little tracking system - they'll let you know when the journal has received your submission, when it's in the reading queue, and whether it's been accepted or rejected. This is nice, because it means you don't have to worry about whether your story got lost in the void or something.

There are still some places that just want you to send your story as an attachment in an email, or even pasted into the body of the email. Most of those places are still very good about letting you know that your submission has actually been received, though.

And of course, there are the old dinosaur mags that still, in the year of our lord 2016, somehow only accept snail mail. Mostly these are the stuffy old university-run lit mags that have been around for a hundred years and don't really have any incentive to get with the times / are so prestigious that people are willing to jump through the hoops. You can decide whether it's worth your time or not. These places almost invariably also have ridiculous response times (some as high as an entire year) so I've never bothered.

Before you submit, make sure you have read the market�s formatting requirements. Many will accept Shunn Manuscript Format, but some have their own special requirements. Not following them is an easy way to get dumped without reading. OBEY.

Alright, how rich am I going to get?
First things first: You are not going to make a living writing short stories, full stop. Even famous, best-selling novelists aren't making big bucks with short fiction, and even the absolute best-paying markets are paying you less than minimum wage for the hours invested in writing. That being said, publishing can be a decent source of beer money, if you look in the right places. Both Duotrope and The Submission Grinder will let you sort markets by No Payment, Token Payment, Semi-Pro Payment, and Pro Payment.

Token payment is usually in the $5-10 range. Semi-pro payment is anything between 1 and 4.9 cents per word, while Pro Payment is 5 cents or above per word (or 6 cents per word, by Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America standards). Some places also pay flat rates, either for the entire piece or per printed page. There are a decent number of journals that pay in the $20-40 range per printed page, which is a nice chunk of change. There are a few places that have great payouts - Electric Literature pays $300, and The Sun pays all the way up to $1,200 - but those places have crazy low acceptance rates. Also, if you are published in a mag that is actually printed on paper, you are almost always going to get a contributor copy or two.

Something to keep in mind is that paying =/= better than. There are tons of very widely-read and well-respected journals that don't pay anything, or pay very little (I�m looking at you The Atlantic).

REMEMBER: MONEY ALWAYS FLOWS FROM THE PUBLISHER TO THE AUTHOR, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND!

And legit agents do not charge authors for their services. They do not require authors to pay �editing fees.� They get paid a percentage of royalties by the publisher. NEVER send money to anyone claiming to be a publisher or agent.

A good site that maintain lists (and the occasional exciting horror story) of scammers is SFWA�s Writer Beware pages

Some not-quite-exceptions:
- Freelance editors and proofreaders are not necessarily scams. The ones that you seek out, not ones that an �agency� �requires� you to pay if they represent you. These are legit professionals and can provide extremely good feedback. Look for recommendations from other writers and a list of authors they have worked with.
- A few legit writing contests have an entry fee (for example Glimmer Train�s contests, Glimmer Train being one of the top-ranked literary journals in the US), but I still recommend exercising quite a bit of caution when looking at a contest! Look for contests run by well-known and respected markets, and with well-known and respected judges. (Well-known past winners is probably a pretty good indication of quality as well!)
- Some reputable markets charge nominal processing fees, the ones I�ve seen are $3 or less.

# ¿ May 15, 2019 16:49

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

fruity20 you seem to like talking about writing more than writing. Prove me wrong.

# ¿ May 17, 2019 19:00

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

flerp has given crits that have singed my eyebrows and blistered my rear end, doesn't matter if he's saying "ur story is garbage" or "your story is garbage," he's right

# ¿ May 31, 2019 16:59

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

MockingQuantum posted:

What do you all do about writer's block? I've had it bad, for months now. I know the causes and solutions of just not being able to write are almost always pretty personal, and often as much a matter of discipline as anything, but I'm just not sure what to try anymore. I've been making myself at least sit down at my computer and write something every day, and I've been managing that, but not actually producing anything with much success. I've entered Thunderdome twice in the last few weeks and haven't managed to even get a story started, really.

The bottom line is, if you like to write (but aren't a professional with professional deadlines), there are periods where you just won't generate any output. Maybe it's a week, maybe it's a month�I'm coming off of almost 4 months of little to no output because my brain sat its rear end down like a petulant puppy refusing to walk on its leash. For most of us, these periods of non-output will come and go in a cycle of months or years. I've found, however, that the brain is generally creating stories even if we're not writing them down; sometimes that needs to happen in the background of your mind for quite a while before you're seized by that spark that eventually actualizes into a story.

This might not work for you, but I find a little reverse psychology can help. I tell myself that I am not, under any circumstances, going to write. I then fill my time with things that allow my mind to wander�lots of long walks, drawing, listening to music on the train/bus. Almost invariably, stories will arise and dissipate in my head as I let my mind drift, but I don't put any pressure on them or try to develop them in anyway. I just let the creative part of my brain have fun without expectation. After a while, I'm usually struck by an idea that refuses to dissipate, who needs to be expressed on the page, and then it's second nature to start writing it down. The "writing" part of writing ceases to be a barrier.

ymmv

# ¿ Jul 15, 2019 22:34

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Karenina posted:

My personal favorite is Google Keep. I like to have all of my spur-of-the-moment notes, to-do lists, phone numbers, and groceries in one place. It's messy and disgusting.

I do this too, it's nasty :twisted:

# ¿ Jul 24, 2019 23:16

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

Stuporstar posted:

I far prefer saying Don�t Be Precious

This is good

# ¿ Jul 26, 2019 08:32

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

help im writing

# ¿ Oct 10, 2019 19:47

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# ¿ May 13, 2024 09:44

Sitting Here: Dec 31, 2007

My advice would be to read accounts by victims of similar abuse and near sexual assault to make sure you don't come off like an oblivious dumbass

Like if you're going to use that subject to edify yourself through the entertainment of readers, I hope you're well read on it

# ¿ Nov 18, 2019 01:18

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > Fiction Writing Advice and Discussion: Read. Write. Crit. Repeat.

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