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sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Dr. Kloctopussy posted:

at least don't repeat the same joke

seriously.

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sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









hit up any of the regulars for a crit, people will normally be very happy to look at your stuff for you.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Xelkelvos posted:

If I'm just getting into writing (like within the last few weeks), would it be wise to sign up for the Thunderdome even though my writing skills probably have as much polish as week old cow pie?

yeah, I'd do it. it's not a panacea, but it's fun, gives you an incentive to write and see yourself improve, and let's you know whether your self assessment is right.

the worst that might happen is you get a loser av.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









HIJK posted:

Sooner or later your thread will be archived and you won't be able to delete. Choose carefully.

it won't be archived until it's been dormant for a while. alternatively use gdoc links. if you are finding the thread useful, keep with it imo.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









One trick is to think of something really dumb and obvious then nudge it until its not obvious and it interests you. That way you're never in the paralysing position of needing to come up with a Really Good Idea.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









yes what crab and doc said.

if you are in a hurry then looking inside yourself at what is grinding your gears right now then messily slapping it on the page layered with some weirdass genre pot pourri is where it's at because even if it's terrible it will still be interesting.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









tdome favours stripped down language because that avoids a lot of beginners mistakes, but if you want to get fancy just do it. there's a vast array of great literature that reads nothing like that. the only caution is to be sure you're doing it intentionally not just out of habit.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









also bone-dry bird bath is an amazing phrase.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Scialen posted:

Just a quick question: Can anyone tell me what the progymnasmata section of "Classical Rhetoric for the Modern Student, 4th Edition" is like, perhaps with a small excerpt? I've only been able to find previews/excerpts from the third edition online which doesn't have it, and I can't afford the book at the moment.

I've been looking into classical practices and the progymnasmata for a while to give me some practice and confidence with forms, and I'm interested in what Corbett has to say on the matter. Any information will be invaluable!

iirc Corbett is strongly in favour of gymnasmata, though it's been a long time since I've read it lol

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Dr. Kloctopussy posted:

TL; DR: No.

I'm not familiar with this, and after talking to a few of the other regular posters in this thread, I don't think you are likely to get a satisfactory answer here. This is a pretty specialized text, much more likely to be used by....well students of rhetoric in an actual university class. Not so much by the general population of people who are trying to write fiction.

I obviously don't know everyone who posts in here, much less reads the thread, so maybe someone will come out of the woodwork to help you out. Otherwise, you might try:
-- Posting in another thread on Something Awful. Philosophy thread? I think there's a grad school thread? Maybe someone in the real literature thread in book barn has taken a class like this? There might be an even better one? I have no idea.
-- Finding another forum online that is more specific to this kind of thing. Another thing which I have no idea about.
-- Renting it from Amazon. It costs $80 to buy, but you can rent it for $20 (if you are in the US at least....), which might be worth it.
-- Libraries. But the Seattle library doesn't have a copy of any edition, and the University near me only has one copy, and it's checked out until 2018.

that's what I meant to say

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









noblesse oblige, niceties, obligations

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Thunderdome is great for 'I just want to write some stories', people may yell you but it is well-intentioned and weirdly addictive.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Always double and triple check whether a twist is worth the story elements you're omitting or obfuscating to make it land.

I quite liked your night/morning one, because you didnt need to hide other information to make it work, it just needed to be a little clearer.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









post it a sentence at a time as tweets

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Getsuya posted:

Is there a current Long Walk thread? The last one I can find is a few months old. I want to Toxx myself to finish the rough draft of my novel by the end of the year.

nope, but feel free to set one up, making it a new years resolution thread works.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Glancing over the piece as a whole, I really like what you're trying to do, art's great and the oppressive vibe works well but the language is very clunky in an ESL way and needs a significant rework.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Covok posted:

I decided to try my hand at writing a story in a sword and sorcery style after I couldn't find a book the story collection of Conan the Barbarian at the book store nearby me.

It's a little rough. This is just the first draft. It's called Sebastian The Swordshatterer and it's kind of an anthology thing where Sebastian travelers across the land, comes across some people who are dealing with a supernatural thing, gets into a series of obstacles to overcome it, and ultimately succeeds due to his wits more than his brawn. This is just the first story: Sebastian The Swordshatterer in "The Call of the Wendigo."

If anyone is willing to give it a read and give me some honest critique, I'd be deeply appreciative.

And, I'd be more than willing to help people with their own works, when I get the chance (tax season is starting next week and I'll be working 9-8 then and working Saturdays 9-5 so I might take a while to get back to you).

It's awesome to post and seek feedback, but don't do this. If you're asking for help, make sure you've either done as much as you can to make it good first, or at least pretend you have. Did you even proofread it?

quote:

But, Sebastian’s heart did not fill with fill. His breathe filled the air around him and would have left any travelers blind in a fog of human steam.

hm

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Yeah i wouldn't write a thing if i didn't do thunderdome.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









flerp posted:

now youre making td look bad :(

good point, that's your job: sorry.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Ask them how blunt they want you to be?

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Stuporstar posted:

They've directly asked me to be gentle this time around. I just... I don't know how. My crits somehow end up being brutal even when I think I'm being nice. Whenever I try to use the compliment sandwich the compliments are two thin slices of tasteless white bread--the kind that form ugly little pills when you roll a pinch between your fingers.

In that case just say nice things. If that is a short list, that's not your fault.

It's an unfair position you've been put in, imo.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









On a quick skim that's def better, though still extremely purple. I'll have a read later today and see how the whole thing holds up.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Dr. Kloctopussy posted:

I'm literally crying right now

Seriously though, even more than I love it when anyone ever reads the OPs (WHICH IS A LOT), I super love it when people pipe up about what is missing in the OPs. Mostly so far this has been ~real lit~ people (<3 you guys) correctly pointing out that there's not really anything about prose style. Unfortunately they keep prefacing that by mentioning genre v literature, which distracts (entertains) us for like 2 pages and we never actually talk about prose style. I actually have a draft of a section on prose style, and will post it eventually, but uhhhhhhhhh... seriously read more, write more, close thread has never applied more than for that topic. D:

..... "prose style" :lol:

ugh I'm gonna have to edit this post to actually talk about Prose Style now, i hate you and i hate myself.

:unsmith:

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Every 'rule' is really just a flag to look at what you've done that breaks the rule and think if it's worth it.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Chill out, fellows, we are all good word friends here.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









crabrock posted:

gently caress, who called the fuzz?

I know/see all, from within my Omniscitron.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









MockingQuantum posted:

I'm also prone to wordiness, and a good rule of thumb I picked up somewhere is to cut adjectives just about everywhere, unless they modify something in a way that isn't obvious. So like above, "panicked screaming" doesn't add much, because you'd expect through context that the screaming wouldn't be calm. But it's totally valid to say "melodic screaming" as that has a whole different feel and runs counter to most reader's expectations.

Adverbs ditto, but more so.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Sociopastry posted:

How in the gently caress do I do character descriptions

my head hurts

Have them look in a mirror but it's cracked so they can't see anything

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Also remember that by describing a person's surroundings you are also describing them.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Ironic Twist posted:

was it written in a clipped tone of voice

The Sean posted:

It's fair to say. The style first appears to be a dyed in the wool approach--and it's true to its roots, to be honest--but when you really start to split hairs the approach is a tangled mess. If the author just trimmed it down, or cut it entirely, the final volume's twist ending would have paid off. My opinion might be coarse, but I might not be the mane audience for this genre.

goood puns

Unfortunately I hate puns, because I'm a horrible fusing of flesh and metal that breaks every law of both god and man.

Also I just realised that handing out whimsical six hour probations for pun chains is a thing I can do, haha.

Do with this information what you will, people of CC

sebmojo fucked around with this message at 09:06 on Feb 3, 2018

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Sitting Here posted:

oh no he's power tripping (no pun intended)

:allbuttons:

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









magnificent7 posted:

TLDR: Give up writing nobody reads anyway. Put all your effort into narrating audiobooks. Which isn't writing. You're just telling stories. Totally different you know what just give up and go play Skyrim some more.

In a sense video games are the new books but you dont write them: you play them.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









feedmyleg posted:

Who are some YA authors that have really great prose? I know there's no universal good style and everyone has their own strengths, but I'm looking to improve mine in various ways for an edit of my book and want some various inspirations.

Philip Pullman is pretty good.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Post the first page, (here, if you like) and see if people ask you to post more.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Tbh while I agree with my learned colleagues that it's good to have a bit more context for his running, it's looking better.

Ultimately the first page of a novel is doing something different from that of a short story, but hopefully it's useful to have an idea of how an unsympathetic eye would see it: don't assume the reader wants to turn the page, make them want to turn the page.

Feel free to post a longer section in its own thread if it would be helpful.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Burkion posted:

So fun fact


Two trees that are round about 85 to 100 feet each smashing into your home will not, in fact, aid you in trying to write what so ever.

this is something I've learned the hard way over the last month as I have attempted to work on my third draft only for literally everything to distract me as much as possible.

this is good intel, tyvm

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Magnusth posted:

Do any of you have any experience repurposing misogynist tropes and ideas, especially from noir and hardboiled detective stories, like femme fatales, in a way that makes them... not misogynist and sexist?

Why? What's your goal? You can just gender swap if you like, but are you trying to not make 2018 people go ew, or do comedy, or interrogate the tropes themselves?

A peerlessly woke character dropped into classic gumshoe noir would potentially be funny/interesting I guess.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Make all the women wear full wetsuits and SCUBA gear, completely unexplained.

E: the wetsuitsare the patriarchy

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Write good human characters and dgaf about tropes imo

Here's a noir bit that I gender swapped, which I regret about half the time but I thought worked ok here

Black wedding 

The sky is a hot and smoke-blackened sheet, hung out on a line for too long because no-one can be bothered taking it in.

I have a gun in my purse, high-heeled shoes on my feet, wedding dress all tattered and torn.

And, as I totter down the dirty street, my mind is a crawling pit of bugs.

I lean on the door, knock, twice, close my eyes and breathe. There’s rain coming in but it won’t get here in time to wash my sins away.

The door, wavy glass with writing on it that my blurry eyes can’t read, jerks open and there’s someone standing there, a woman, fat, curly hair. She smells of cheap whiskey and and expensive regrets but she holds out a hand and I grab it like a drowner, pull myself to shore.

Time takes a holiday for a time and when my brain gets back to work I’m lying down, cushions on the floor.

“Shamus,” I croak. “Danny Shamus; he’ll be here. He was following me, purse, there’s, there’s a gun. In my purse.” 

The lady looks at me with an expression like a closed up newspaper, but then there’s a rapping at the door, something metal on glass.

“Pickard,” says the woman. “My name’s Pickard.” 

And now it’s Shamus' throaty voice behind the door and Pickard, sliding her hand into my purse and pulling out the little .22 I'd bought for shooting cans all those years ago. Pickard unlatches the door and motions him in.

Shamus looks uncomprehending at the gun, then gulps. His tuxedo is a mess, not going to be getting the deposit back on that.

"Sally-Ann," he says. "The police are coming. I had to call them. You'll need to go with them."

Pickard squinted at me. She had tired, puffy eyes too. "What did you do?

There are red and blue lights out there now, a harsh artificial dawn. I slide my legs under me and wobble upright. "Shot the priest. I knew him a long time ago. He... was a bad man. He took my confessions and made them worse."

Pickard's face is curdled, now, like milk left out in summer. She clicks the safety off on the gun and slides it across the floor to me. "Back door. We had no choice. You made us. Understand?" This last is pointed at Shamus, who gulps again as I pick up the gun.

The gun's heavy in my hand and in my heart, the smell a harsh reminder of the chemistry that rules our lives. With a bare nod, I stumble out the back door, as the rain starts falling; but never enough, never enough.

sebmojo fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Mar 4, 2018

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sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









I like writing my characters in a circle and drawing arrows with loves/hates/fears between them. If you do it without thinking too much you can come up with some interesting relationships, and an arc can then arise from resolving the tensions.

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