Fiction Writing Advice and Discussion: Read. Write. Crit. Repeat.

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > Fiction Writing Advice and Discussion: Read. Write. Crit. Repeat.

Sally Forth: Oct 16, 2012

CitizenKeen posted:

I've read that agents/publishers are souring on series from first-time authors. How do you tailor a novel to stand on its own, while also making it the first of many? Or is that a fool's errand?

Safety Biscuits' advice is really good, but I don't think it's true agents and publishers are souring on series. Annecdotal, but I chat with three first-time authors whose publisher recently signed them for series (and one of the authors really didn't want to do a sequel). When it comes to agents, what they don't want is for you to waste time working on a series if the first book doesn't sell, but in my experience they're really keen for the sequel potential exist and will do their best to sell Your Book + As Yet Unwritten Book 2.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2020 09:09

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 09:05

Sally Forth: Oct 16, 2012

Rad-daddio posted:

Does anyone have good sources for low cost editing? I'm finishing up the first in a series of fiction novels, and I've been seeing costs around 800-1100 usd and up for a 100k word manuscript. My intent is to use the first manuscript, and begin the long and painful search for an agent as I continue the series. So, if that's what it really costs then so be it.

Also, would it be prudent to search for a genre-oriented editor? I'm writing to market in the cozy mystery genre, and I'm assuming that it might be possible to shop for an editor that way if it would help.

Unless you don't have beta readers/crit partners to run it past, you don't really need to drop money on a professional edit before querying agents. Agents will read for voicing/characterisation/plotting, and if you have those then most will work with you to polish the manuscript.

Once you have an agent, they will also discourage you from immediately starting work on the second book in a series - if they don't sell your first book then writing a second book that will never see the light of day is a waste of your time (unless your series is loosely connected enough that each book stands alone, which might be the case for a cozy mystery). You're better off developing a solid synopsis for the second book so the first book can be sold with sequel potential, and then starting a new project so you'll have a larger back catalogue for your agent to sell from.

# ¿ Oct 18, 2020 11:57

Sally Forth: Oct 16, 2012

wolberius posted:

Hello everyone. This is my first post here and you come highly recommended. I have finished a manuscript for a horror novel and I'm in the process of querying it to agents. I hope to receive your feedback on my cover letter. Without further ado, this is what I have:

Dear, [NAME]

Thank you for the opportunity to submit my dark fantasy and Gothic horror novel, NIGHT DEMON. It is complete at 130,000 words. I read online that you [PERSONALISED READING HABITS/OTHER AUTHORS THEY REP], which is why I have no doubt my novel would interest you. I have included a hook, blurb, and a one-page synopsis for your review.

In summary: a powerless girl takes on all-powerful monsters.

Lilian is looking for her missing best friend when a Demon saves her life. Realising she can speak with these denizens of the Netherworld, it is clear they are connected to her friend's disappearance. They are also behind the mysterious murders happening in town. Before long, Lilian finds herself in a world of man-eating monsters. The Demon Hunters are of no help either, with sooner her homicide on their minds. To add fuel to this unholy fire, she also learns about an Incubus � a powerful Demon � with deadly designs on the whole town. If only she had some demonic powers of her own. . .

Night Demon is a tale about an unlikely heroine. The story rides on psychological undertones more so than gore for its horror. It may remind readers of classic reads like The Haunting of Hill House (1959) in this way. It combines this with an overture of high-tension chase scenes. Readers of Hide (2022) will appreciate these fast-paced, scary episodes. Dysfunctional relationships lie at the heart of my character exploration. Together with a stunted coming-of-age, it may remind you of Let The Right One In (2004). Throughout the novel, I make use of ghostly folklore and near-east-inspired language magic.

Born and raised in the Netherlands, I write in both English and Dutch for a living. I live with a cat who isn�t bothered by my delayed sleep phase syndrome and nightly writing sessions. I started writing text-based roleplays in my early twenties. This escalated so much that one day I realised I was writing novel-length fanfiction. I needed to omit the fan, from the fiction. I am thirty-six.

I look forward to your response.

Sincerely,

[MY NAME]

Apologies if this sounds harsh!
- 'I have no doubt my novel would interest you' feels a little presumptuous.

- 130,000 words is about what you could get away with for a fantasy novel. Horror novels are usually <100,000. You might want to make another editing pass to cut that word count or you're likely to get rejections based on that alone.

- Meanwhile, your pitch itself is a little short. You could safely add another 100 words to make things clearer. Focus on who Lilian is, what she wants, and what's keeping her from getting it, because at the moment we don't know anything about her beyond the plot that happens to her, and have no reason to care about her. "[Intrepid reporter/loner high school student/bored office worker] Lilian is hunting for her missing best friend, [NAME], when a demon saves her life [from a hellhound/mugger/speeding pizza delivery guy]. Although she's initially [terrified/sceptical/aroused], Lilian realises that these man-eating monsters may be connected to [NAME]'s disappearance, and decides to [learn how to fight them/team up with the demon that saved her/give up on her quest and hide under the bed]. But there's more at stake than [NAME]'s life; the demons are behind a string of grizzly murders, and that may only be the start of the horrors. Now Lilian needs to decide whether finding [NAME] is worth facing down everything that hell can throw at her armed with only [a bad attitude/a green belt in jujitsu/fledgling demonic powers of her own]." just to be clear, this is very bad! But hopefully it gives an idea of how you could shift the emphasis to Lilian and her choices.

- Terms like 'Netherworld' and 'Demon Hunters' aren't great when we don't know what they mean within the context your story.

- I could be wrong, but The Haunting of Hill House is a slow, claustrophobic and ambiguous psychological horror, and it really doesn't sound like a good comp for a book full of fast-paced demon chases. Honestly, the current pitch's emphasis on warring supernatural factions and Lilian developing cool demonic powers makes this book sound more like YA or urban fantasy than horror. (You will also, ideally, want all your comps to have been from within the last few years, both Haunting and Let The Right One In are too old).

Sally Forth fucked around with this message at 11:34 on Sep 13, 2022

# ¿ Sep 13, 2022 10:58

Sally Forth: Oct 16, 2012

wolberius posted:

I have revised my letter, using some of the pointers you gave. I was initially under the impression that the synopsis had to be reduced to 2, but rather just 1 paragraph and that I had to be very concise about what happens in the novel. I have taken your advice and that of some others here to build a more compelling blurb. I have essentially traded general things about myself and the novel for room to elaborate on the story. I have decided to drop the Horror genre as I believe it can stand on its own in dark fantasy/grimmdark too. It would give me more flexibility too. I hope to avoid the YA genre altogether, despite my MC's age and where the story takes place. You and others have suggested specifically naming the number of murders and the town's name. These are not given in the story either, so I chose to omit them. Here is the updated version, thank you for your help so far:

This is a significant improvement! Well done!

There's no need to give your age. It only matters if you're e.g. fourteen and it could serve as a selling point or cause issues with signing contracts.
It's still quite jarring for 'Demon' to be capitalised. Even if you have a solid reason to do it within the book itself, I'd suggest skipping it in the query.
What does 'the product of this unseen affliction' mean? Are demons causing the affliction? Is the affliction somehow causing the serial killings? Are the people with this affliction turning into demons? A query doesn't have to answer every question it raises, but the premise should be clearly spelt out.
You mention the town is plagued by a serial killer, and then that one demon has designs beyond serial killing, but you never make the link between the serial killings and the demons explicit, even though demons are presumably responsible.
Some of your phrasing reads a little awkwardly.
- "can see an invisible affliction within other people." (or "can see other people are suffering from an invisible affliction.")
- "one of which ~~with~~ has designs far beyond simple serial murder."
- "Only Lilian's ability to talk to Demon-kin might allow her to solve the mystery of one friend gone missing and clear the name of another." This implies clearing Lucian's name is also part of the mystery which I don't think is the intention.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2022 12:03

Sally Forth: Oct 16, 2012

Sailor Viy posted:

Also among the people here who have experience querying, is there anything non-obvious that you wish you had known when you started out?

The relationship goes both ways. Curate the list of agents you're going to query carefully and don't assume that everyone who could potentially rep your book would actually be a good fit. Check their sales in your genre - if they aren't selling to big five imprints or large indie presses then they may not be worth your time. If you get an offer, take the opportunity to speak to their clients and make sure they're happy. Don't let your eagerness to get rep drive you to sign with someone who isn't going to take your career in the direction you want it to. A bad agent (or just one who's a bad fit for you) can be a worse setback for your writing career than not finding an agent at all and having to try again with another book.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2024 13:23

Sally Forth: Oct 16, 2012

Milkfred E. Moore posted:

The other thing I found was that there was no point in personalising the query letters. I think I personalised about a dozen because the agent seemed like a good fit or represented works I really enjoyed, and those were always my quickest rejections. Maybe it was coincidence, but it always left me feeling a little bit worse to put in a bit more effort and get the same kind of response.

This is true. The only time it's worth doing is if you have a real, personal connection to lean on ('we met at [X] conference', 'you liked my pitch tweet', '[your client] loved this and said you might be interested'). Even that won't get you an offer, but it will probably get you to the top of the slush pile so you can get rejected more quickly.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2024 12:32

Sally Forth: Oct 16, 2012

Waffle! posted:

Some of them Rose recognized from her entrance tests, and more than one that failed to protect themselves from Black Fox's sword.

The 'and' doesn't make it clear that the failure to protect themselves happened at the entrance test (assuming that is where it happened and not at an unrelated event). Rephrasing to something like the below would make that clearer.
Some of them Rose recognized from her entrance tests; more than one had failed to protect themselves from Black Fox's sword.
Some of them Rose recognized from her entrance tests, where more than one had failed to protect themselves from Black Fox's sword.

quote:

He then faced the kid and stepped closer to put his hand on his shield, and shoved him backwards onto his butt.

You don't need the 'then', and 'stepped closer to put his hand on his shield' implies he attempts to grab the shield but not necessarily that he succeeds. It all weights down a sentence which you want to flow as smoothly as Black Fox's movements. 'He faced the kid, stepped in close and shoved the shield, knocking the kid onto his butt' or something similar conveys the same idea with less choppiness.

quote:

He stepped over the boy and continued onward, while Rose helped him back to his feet before catching up with her proctor.

The 'while' implies Rose is helping the boy up and catching up to Black Fox simultaneous to him stepping over the boy, when we can assume she's doing it after he's moved on.

quote:

"I'm not the bad guy. I just show them their limits." Black Fox replied.

Needs a comma, not full stop.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2024 13:16

Sally Forth: Oct 16, 2012

Waffle! posted:

[snip]

Some general advice:

Try to avoid unnecessary filters like 'They witnessed' and 'Rose watched' - they sap the immediacy out of your prose and distance us from the action.
We're not getting much interiority from Rose. How does she feel about watching Black Fox casually take down that boy? Impressed by how cool he is? Excited at the idea that one day she'll be that badass too? Unnerved by how casual he is about violence? Rolling her eyes because she thinks he's a bore and a showoff? Is she also suspicious about whatever's going on with the Marquis and the wands, or is she confused by Black Fox's reaction? Watching two guys suddenly draw swords and start trying to stab each other is a pretty dramatic, but Rose doesn't feel anything about it other than a mild 'haha boys' when the fight is already winding down.
Watch your grammar. There are tiny errors slipping in e.g. �I don�t think the other students here like you all that much,� [s]he said. and Black Fox stepped back and used the length of his sword [to] keep distance between them.
Be careful with the connotations of the words you're using, especially in something that needs as much visualisation as a fight scene. e.g. Black Fox jabbed forward with a quick vertical strike - a jab implies a thrust, but 'vertical' implies a downward cut. He lunged with a few swings - again, a lunge implies a thrust and not a swing.
This really depends on the level of realism you're going for and the characterisation, but since you've clearly put some effort into the fight choreography then it seems like you're going for something quite grounded. If that is the case then sparring with live steel and no protection is a buckwild thing to do, and seems at odds with the previous characterisation of Black Fox as someone who takes martial arts seriously.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2024 13:15

Sally Forth: Oct 16, 2012

Leng posted:

Hi thread, it's been a while since I've asked for a blurb crit so here goes. This is for a second book in a series, which I'm probably gonna be pitching as "Six of Crows meets The Well of Ascension" (or maybe a vastly inferior The Monster Baru Cormorant because everybody hates The Well of Ascension). I have two options that I'm debating:

I'm currently leaning Option 1 but I don't know if it leads people to expect another predominantly single POV book when this one is going to be multi-POV.

I'm also looking for a second round of beta readers for a "go/no go" beta read. Because this thing is a chonk (proooobably will be 200�220k in total), it is going out in stages. Act I (83k words) is ready. No obligation to have read Book 1. If this sounds like your jam and you've got the bandwidth to turn around feedback on the first chunk in ~4 weeks, then PM me (or if you don't have PMs, let me know where to reach you in the thread).

To give the PoV of someone who's not familiar with the series, I'd agree that Option 1 is stronger for the reasons the other gave; a list of characters with a trait or two apiece and little idea of how they're going to fit into the plot is much less interesting than a tight focus on a single character, their goals and obstacles.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2024 14:41

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 09:05

Sally Forth: Oct 16, 2012

Mirage posted:

If y'all don't mind, I have a blurb I've been messing with for so long that I feel like I've lost objectivity. I think I need a few more eyes on it before I begin sending it to agents.

The name of the book is Celebrity Isekai! With Your Host, Wulfgar Bloodraven.

A standard query letter devotes ~250 words to the blurb text, so you've got room to expand this quite a bit. I'd also agree with Sailor Viy that the David/Nome reveal feels disjointed in such a small space, and that this would be strengthened by giving us a sense of the personal stakes for David.

Isekai is a hard sell in tradpub right now, but agents are really hoping to find a breakthrough book, so if you position this right (maybe with the Space Opera comp Stuporstar suggested to show the appeal to more traditional SF readers) then you could be in with a chance.

# ¿ Apr 21, 2024 11:30

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