Fiction Writing Advice and Discussion: Read. Write. Crit. Repeat.

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > Fiction Writing Advice and Discussion: Read. Write. Crit. Repeat.

SkaAndScreenplays: Dec 11, 2013; by Pragmatica

Dr. Kloctopussy posted:

WRITE MORE
Line Edits
Finally we get to the point of really looking at the words, sentence by sentence! The guidelines for doing line edits on your own are the same as for doing line edits for others, as described in the next post.

Awesome OP Doc...

A good line-edit is like having a grand-master of chess analyze and critique your every move and rate it for strength.
-Super insightful.
-Super helpful.
-Super awesome.
-Much appreciated.
-Occasionally a bit debasing.
-Sometimes soul-crushing which is way better than having someone blow sunshine up your rear end.

# ¿ Feb 2, 2017 12:59

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# ¿ Apr 30, 2024 09:24

SkaAndScreenplays: Dec 11, 2013; by Pragmatica

Dr. Kloctopussy posted:

B]Show vs. Tell[/b]
A common piece of advice to new writers is �show, don�t tell,� but now it�s fashionable to complain about this, especially based on some stuff Orson Scott Card said.

Showing means showing the reader what is happening and how the characters are feeling, basically giving them information from which they deduct other information. Angry characters wave their arms or stomp their feet. High schoolers get weak in the knees and breathless when their crush walks up. The police car swings out of the alley and the siren starts wailing. You do not need to describe the cool smoothness of the doorknob and the slight resistance before it turns every time a character opens a door.

Telling means telling the reader what is happening or how the characters are feeling directly. Jill was angry. Jill had a crush on Ben. The police started chasing Ben�s get away car. One particularly annoying form of telling is the �info-dump� where the writer just writes in paragraphs of facts they consider useful or interesting, but which seem irrelevant and boring to the reader.

SO, here it is, the final answer:

Sometimes it�s better to show, and sometimes it�s better to tell.

This video is in reference to "The Matrix" but has some really good things to say about the scene in the Construct from the first movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6EnMVtaC3A&t=78s

# ¿ Feb 3, 2017 07:55

SkaAndScreenplays: Dec 11, 2013; by Pragmatica

I'm currently reading a great interview with Matthew Weiner creator of Mad Men on the creative process that's got a lot of insight to it.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2017 14:41

SkaAndScreenplays: Dec 11, 2013; by Pragmatica

Okua posted:

We know that 500 question character sheets suck, but does anybody have some actually good resources for creating characters?
I'm starting a new novel and this time I'm trying to *actually plan things out* and have some reference sheets for setting/characters/magic stuff.

NERD ALERT!!!
If they're a central character I use character sheets from the World Of Darkness line of storytelling games.

If you're worried about mary-suing a character or having them be too perfect they're a great way of setting what they can & can't do, better yet it's graphical.

You can ignore the stuff about magical powers in the game and just use the attributes, abilities, & virtues and you shouldn't even need to worry about character creation rules. I jumped to using these after I came to realize that all of my best characters that I've created were for this silly little role-playing game I've been a part of for 7 years. Real people are bad at things and completely irrational about some things - show that.

Sitting Here posted:

woah dude sorry, I wasn't trying to pick a fight or anything. I thought you were joking because your last few posts on this page were blatantly non-serious. A bunch of us were putting serious effort into making posts about literary style vs "traditional" character-driven plots but that kind of tapered out.

I don't have any resources on writing middles because my strategy is to splart out the whole story and THEN figure out the arc. I think it's easier to deal with the middle if you don't approach it as "the middle" in the initial drafting process. But that's just me and I wouldn't necessarily advise anyone to do it the same way.

That leads me to a question I wonder about a lot: how esoteric is the actual writing process for you guys? When I try to articulate my methods sometimes, they end up sounding wrong, or they just plain don't work for other people. But I get decent feedback from readers and publications, so apparently something in there is working. Obviously, writing blogs and books have to speak in general terms because they have a wide audience. How much do you guys tend to skew the process to better suit the weird machinations of your brains?

With all the screenwriting stuff I've been doing lately I have found it effective writing a story in the order of:
Beginning -> End -> Okay how did we get there?

Then go in to throw rocks at my characters and B-Plots. My proto-first draft isn't even a full screenplay at all it literally just the beats of a story and important exchanges of dialogue. It's basically an outline but it's a very... thorough one. I've never seen anybody else's outlines of anything so I may actually be doing less of it than most people do.

code:

INT. A lovely HOUSE - LATER THAT DAY
A bland white room is painted amber with the light of the setting sun. SOME BULLSHIT 
TO SET THE SCENE AND/OR CHECKHOV'S GUN PULLSHIT

             [u]DIALOGUE[/u]
     DICK & DOUCHEBAG talk about how
     much they hate their current situation.
     DICK thinks they're hosed and wants to
     do something about it but DOUCHEBAG is 
     mostly worried about how they're going to
     score blunt wraps and Jaegerbombs if they
     become poor people.

[i]Relevant screen action.[/i]

             [u]DIALOGUE[/u]
     The two decide to rob a bank or some poo poo
     DOUCHEBAG acts like an insufferable loving
     fanboy about the old thing but DICK is DEADLY
     loving SERIOUS about that poo poo.

[i]He pulls out some BLUEPRINTS AND WIRING DIAGRAMS...[/i]

             [u]DIALOGUE[/u]
     DOUCHEBAG is too awestruck to ask where in the 
     hell DICK got all of this stuff. DICK explains
     that he's always hoped to find someone who was
     able to keep up with his lofty ambitions and
     poor life choices.                        
                                                          CUT TO:

Ironic Twist posted:

This is one of those things that comes down to writing style and it's usually a mix of both. For me, I'd rather define the setpieces that are central to the story and let all the ancillary stuff be figured out with context clues.

Buzzword City was basically how I felt about Dune when I read it fwiw and it didn't end up mattering because Herbert was able to make it feel natural, so do what you feel like you can pull off

I don't like when a story tries to insult my meager intelligence so I try not to do it in my stories. The stories I like generally try immerse you in the culture and vernacular of the world and provide significance through context. There's good books by good writers that hold your hand through everything but I've found that my favorites generally make you do some thinking about things.

SkaAndScreenplays fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Mar 21, 2017

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 02:49

SkaAndScreenplays: Dec 11, 2013; by Pragmatica

Djeser posted:

present tense is a flashy, distracting fad in fiction

I'll also confidently add that I've never found an example of first person present tense that worked outside of some character relaying some anecdote or story inside of a story.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 05:29

SkaAndScreenplays: Dec 11, 2013; by Pragmatica

I've never read Angelmaker but if there is literal running-of-a-train in a sex-context of sex I think I pretty much have to now.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 06:08

SkaAndScreenplays: Dec 11, 2013; by Pragmatica

Thranguy posted:

You need to read more James Ellroy then.

I will do so.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 08:41

SkaAndScreenplays: Dec 11, 2013; by Pragmatica

neongrey posted:

Present vs past in general is such a minor style difference, the sheer hate some people have for it just baffles me. Inertia, man.

I don't hate present tense, I've just had limited exposure to first person present tense done well as prose. I don't deny that it exists - I just haven't really seen it.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 10:22

SkaAndScreenplays: Dec 11, 2013; by Pragmatica

neongrey posted:

Nah I don't just mean you, I mean that there's a lot of people who really hate present tense in fiction, and they really want you to know that. Really, there's nothing special about it; people see bad present tense prose but I guarantee you they as much bad past tense prose, it's just that present tense prose is less common in general so it's always more noticeable.

Gotcha. I'd be willing to go sofar as to say there's actually more lovely past-tense prose as it's more prolific.

I'm gonna be picking up Angelmaker on Djeser's endorsement and if the reviews are anything to be believed it will break the streak.

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 10:50

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# ¿ Apr 30, 2024 09:24

SkaAndScreenplays: Dec 11, 2013; by Pragmatica

Sitting Here posted:

Not everyone is aspiring to be the Frank Zappa of writing.

I'd settle for being the Residents or Captain Beefheart of the literary world in all honesty...

# ¿ Mar 21, 2017 15:58

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