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CitizenKeen posted:Plot questions Read more. Read something good, in your genre, that you like, but haven't read before. After a few minutes, ask yourself why you are reading. It's fine to say you like the prose, or you like the character, but make sure to have an answer. It can be basic, like "I'm interested" or "I'm invested". Try not to use the blurb or synopsis to answer this question. Repeat until you are done two chapters and compile your answers. That should tell you , as a reader, why you like to read and what captures your interest. Now, try and do the same thing as an author. Once your first draft is done, give yourself a concussion and forget your work. Read it, and ask yourself every few pages, why are you still reading. Common answers can be: "I'm invested in the characters." "I'm interested in the world," "I want to see what happens next" We can expand these questions with answers: "The stakes keep ramping up, I have no idea what's going to happen next, but I need to know!" "A subversion of a popular trope has happened, and now I'm invested in Protag A" "I really connected with character B, and now they just lost their mother. How are they going to react?" The "Answers" written there are the events that happened before we asked the question. This is a very simplified cliff notes version, but it helped me out. You may notice I didn't really answer your plot question, because reader engagement is much more important than plot at the start (which is just my opinion) If you outline, you may want to setup your outline to prompt these questions from the reader. I.E: Thrillers might be "I want to see what happens next" combined with "The stakes keep ramping up" I will say that novels are complex beasts, and usually have multiple story threads interwoven with another. CitizenKeen posted:If you distill an epic scifi/fantasy novel into two paragraphs, I can get there. That isn't plot. That's a synopsis. That's like comparing powdered milk to fresh milk.
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Jun 21, 2021 20:36
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The Cameo posted:Stumbling upon this thread a month after this post, allow me to throw my two cents in: This sounds really similar to Mary Robinette Kowal's "Yes/No/Yes, but/ No, and" method for novels. Basically your character has a problem, and they do something. Their either solve it (yes) and the problem goes away, they don't (no) and they fail, or they succeed/fail and there is a consequence (Yes, but/No,and).
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Jul 22, 2021 04:41
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I posted a small guide on how to get your Scrivener manuscript ready for ebook format. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3639693&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=167#post516483224. It would have added an extra few steps if I hadn't used Scrivener as my writing tool.
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Jul 27, 2021 03:22
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newts posted:Readers. Yeah, you’re right. Blurbs are the toughest thing you can write. If you can, get your beta readers to summarize the novel for you, and use their summary as a guide to highlight what's interesting. Reading through your blurb this is what I get Lucia has no wants. ("prove herself?) Lucia's life is at stake. There is a weird world with psychic humans, and there is a border of some kind? (Physical border, a trump wall? A magical border?) There is a conspiracy. Two peoples conflict? (Like two races fighting each other or literally tom and jerry conflict?) What city? Why do I care? It's not bad. I have a couple of good questions caused by interest, and a couple of bad questions caused by confusion. You might want to highlight the conflict between humans and psychics, (Without literally telling us), so we can understand why Sam Rush is an important character. The last bit of the blurb is... cliched. "Despite her fears" "Deeper into a conspiracy" "threatens both their lives" are pretty much used in every thriller book I have read. While it lets your reader know what type of book this is, I would find a way to give the last bit of the blurb a voice.
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Sep 12, 2021 20:04
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HIJK posted:I've enjoyed the memes. While I don't particpate in writing memes or, whatever the heck this is, I do enjoy that when a character decides to do something it flows well. That's usually because the writer has set it up, where we know enough about the character desires, know enough about the world, and have a sensible suspension of disbelief, to tag along with their decision. Some might call it "The character writing themselves" but I think it's just good writing. I think your post is from tumblr, and while it's not my cup of tea, I don't see the problem in a writer celebrating making progress on their work.
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Dec 31, 2021 19:26
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Since there's not much discussion to be had.
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HIJK posted:All of the meme posts have been silly and jokey posts about writing with some unironic enthusiasm rolled into them. People relate to writing in different ways and it feels kinda bad for someone to come in and telling the thread to stop "consuming this content" as if it's somehow bad or as if it's going to ruin discussion when we don't even talk about actual writing in here right now. (I am aware that this thread ebbs and flows in activity, that's why I appreciate people posting silly relatable writing memes.) Sorry if I upset ya, was just adding my thoughts, and for what it's worth I don't mind memes being posted. Junpei posted:Which of these are you? #2 as well, though it bites my rear end when I get further into longer pieces. At some point when writing I realize a fantasy worldbuilding element plays an important part in the story, and have to make sure that I understand the element, and have explained it. I think Sanderson talked about this before. He wants the reader to be able to figure out how the characters use magic/world to solve their dilemmas, so his magic system has to have rules and limitations that the reader understands. This was contrasted against Lord Of The Rings' magic system which focuses more on being magical and mystical, rather than having clearly defined rules and limitations.
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Dec 31, 2021 20:28
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FightingMongoose posted:Tom Bailey is one of Unit 13’s field agents. Actually he’s just maternity cover, but he’s trusted to investigate ghosts and witches and other low level threats that they don’t want to bother the real field agents with (or bill them for). It’s meant to be a do-nothing assignment for Tom - the reported sightings are never real ghosts, anyway. But something’s upset the spirit world, and the hauntings are turning out to be horribly real. Starting sentence needs to be changed. I don't know what Unit 13 is, and it doesn't matter. What does matter, and more importantly gets my interest, is he is a maternity cover. This sounds humorous, and the following text supports that. One thing I'd add is stakes. No character desires/wants are set, and no stakes are set, so why does it matter that haunting are turning out to be horribly real? FightingMongoose posted:Martha Taggart is a witch. Tom should have arrested her and brought her in, but since her son also works at Unit 13 she manages to stay one step ahead. Just as well for Tom, since when the sudden influx of ghosts turn out to just be a prelude for the rising of a greater daemon, Martha is one of the few people with the know-how to fight him. After all, she’s fought him once before. I don't think your declarative starts are helping you (I.E: Martha Taggart is a witch). All the interesting details come after the introduction, so get rid of the introduction. This 2nd paragraph is also the clunkiest, as the only interesting thing about Martha is... she's fought a demon before? Also the "She's fought him once before" is unclear on which Him we are referring to. What is this paragraph supposed to do? FightingMongoose posted:So when it comes to stopping the daemon and saving the world, rather than the crack team of field agents that Tom might have hoped for, instead he has Martha, her depleted coven of witches, and her son, who revels in playing both sides off against each other. Oh, and also himself, and whatever he still has left in his mission budget after covering his travel expenses. That's a lot of words to say Tom is unprepared to fight this threat. Worse of all it raises a lot of questions like "Why doesn't Tom ask for help?" and "Is Tom stupid?". The tone in this paragraph sounds more humorous, rather than threatening as well. I don't think this synopsis does much for you. It lacks character traits, desires and stakes. It describes a rather generic urban fantasy setup, but I like that I am seeing hints of humor.
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Jan 2, 2022 01:12
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Leng posted:I'm also looking for beta readers. If this sounds like it might be something you would enjoy, then please PM me (or if you don't have PMs then let me know where I can reach you in the thread). I can beta read for you if you wish! We've conversed in newt's Night City Thread, so you know my style. quote:Petition (Resonance Crystal Legacy: Volume 1) Should add I like your blurbs. My thoughts are below
The talent level / birth level thing in the second sentence is bugging me for some reason. Not the content but the execution. I dislike that we learn about her lowly birth after the Great Houses line, and the fact that it is in brackets. The 2nd and 3rd paragraph also repeat the same information, just in different ways. 2nd paragraph: Rayleigh, a foreigner fisher brat, is going to enter the Petition, and if she fails she will lose out on rising above the station of her birth. 3rd paragraph: Rayleigh, who lives in the low docks, is going to enter the Petition. The Petition only accepts 20 people, and if Rayleigh is not accepted, she and her family will stay in the Lowdocks. DropTheAnvil fucked around with this message at 07:28 on Jan 4, 2022 |
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Jan 4, 2022 07:25
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:I strongly disagree that one shouldn't write outside their experience, but with a few core caveats: I think those are really good rules to go by. On the flip side, how do you realize what you are writing is cringy, or could be translated the wrong way? There was an urban fantasy story I read where a guy gets powers, is lead astray by a loki-like character, and after committing murder and genocide, gets forgiven by the supernatural side. Then the character reveals they are asexual, and the book goes out of the way to show how they aren't a horrible monster that committed genoicde. These moments always give me pause, cause IMO it's not well done and feels award, but I hesitate from critiquing cause maybe that's the loving point? To feel awkward and out of place as the character. Edit: My question could also cover when you are critiquing something.
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Jan 5, 2022 23:29
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Junpei posted:
If you are going to post memes, can you at least offer your own opinion? I'm with Nae that we don't have enough context to determine if this line is good or not. The metaphor "loving Freedom" is odd and vulgar to me, so while I personally dislike it, if the story was going for that tone it would be a good line.
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Jan 9, 2022 01:41
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Hey, does anyone have any recommendations for Copy editors? The one I used before (BookSide Manner) is "booked" up for the next few months, and I need the piece edited for March.
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Jan 12, 2022 05:02
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The color coding looks neat, and can highlight patterns in your prose, but sounds like a lot of work. Hats off to you if it works though. I narrate my pieces, which requires me to slow down and actually read out loud my piece. It helps me figure out what sentences don't flow right, and which ones are too long.
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Jan 19, 2022 23:45
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Nae posted:is it though If I received a crit like that I would shrug, guess the reader was bored, and didn't know how to articulate it. The pitch, 90's growing up queer with tentacle gently caress robots reminds me of Man-Eaters, for some reason. Junpei posted:Yep, I agree with this quite a bit. Not that death can't be used effectively, but I have absolutely no interest in having MC drop like flies in the name of 'realism'. There are so many examples where this happens, and so many reasons on WHY it happens, that it should be taken by a case by case basis. It happens in 1917, and that's fine. I'm actually having a hard time remembering when a death of a protagonist, and not how they died, annoyed me.
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Jan 23, 2022 16:46
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Junpei posted:How much of yourself do you put into your characters? I know some people who are like "Here's the one character that's basically me", and others who are like "Okay, he's my drama club goth days, and she's my desperate need for approval from authority figures, and she's my snarky bookworm tendencies, and he's who I wish I was more like" etc etc. I think certain aspects of myself goes into my characters. More broad brush aspects rather then the specifics in your examples. I only find out after the piece is done though. In a downside, my regionality and biases reflect in my writing/characters, something I've been trying to address.
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Apr 1, 2022 02:43
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Junpei posted:I want to confirm if this is a general creative thing or if it's like, specifically a personal/me thing or perhaps a neurodivergent thing: This is fairly common question among new writers and is a common issue among the writers I know. Some of them have to be super focused on one project. Others can juggle one or two projects. How you handle it is up to you. For new writers I recommend focusing on one project, preferably short story. It’s a lot easier to get better at writing if you have something on paper.
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Apr 18, 2022 08:41
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The blurb is good. It comes across as fantasy, with magic and great houses/intrigue a foot. The "Tag" line is neat, gets my interest. I'm being nit picky but I don't get the 3rd section. It seems to be amping up that Altering Magic is forbidden. After reading the whole blurb, I don't understand what Rahelu can lose, as she has already casted Altering Fortune magic and apparently fixed the problem. By fixing it though it sounds like she has shifted the balance of fate which is super vague. Leng posted:In the Dominion of Aleznuaweite, anyone can rise to the greatest heights—if they are willing to pay the price.
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Apr 29, 2022 00:38
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General Battuta posted:Now do the smart thing and avoid SFWA and everything associated with it for the rest of your life! Huh? This is the first negative opinion of SFWA I have encountered. It's hard to play devil's advocate here and see your point of view. I guess if you were like, indie or punk and hated establishments you might be against SFWA. Or if you were on a magazine that was previously snubbed by SFWA rules. I don't have much experience with volunteering with SFWA, have you volunteered with them in the past and had a bad experience? DropTheAnvil fucked around with this message at 22:11 on May 22, 2022 |
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May 22, 2022 21:23
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:She called Chip Delany "Colored" I think the SFF thread has some good takes on this. https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3900237&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=481 Discussion happens halfway down the thread.
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May 23, 2022 22:26
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Data Graham posted:
Most of your comments are focused on other people's reactions when you share your work alongside some self-biographical comments. Very little is focused on the craft of writing, such as how to pace a plot, or write a convincing character. I think you are getting too focused on the reaction your work will get rather than.. the actual work. I think writing is really divided amongst the actual act of writing, and the act of sharing your work. Both are valid skills to have, and are tough to develop and practice. What I might suggest is to write a journal/short-story that is for you. Hell, go crazy and make it a memoir, or self-insert character. Don't worry about other peoples reactions just yet. Get used to the act of writing and don't even care about the sharing part just yet.
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Jun 28, 2022 18:44
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Luigi Thirty posted:Rin under a cotton vestment. Feeling the iron chains tying her to the altar. This looks like an outline. You are pointing out the relevant information that you want in the paragraph. What can my character see? Who else is in the scene? What can the character feel (Phyiscally) What is their body doing (Unconciously? Or is this what they are feeling emotionally, channeled into the physical reactions?) Now you need to flesh it out, you already have the important pieces there and know what you want to convey. So for example Luigi Thirty posted:Rin under a cotton vestment. Feeling the iron chains tying her to the altar. Becomes a paragraph, or even a single sentence, that conveys that information. This example sucks, but here we go: "The girl couldn't breathe. Not because of the taught chains that bit at her wrists, dried blood caking the iron. Not because of the heavy cotton blanket her captors had wrapped around her face. She couldn't breathe because of one simple fact: She was already dead. But that's where I come in, dear Rin. I lick your soul, it tastes nauseatingly sweet. A flick of my wrist, a snap of your soul, and your lungs compress. Rapid and shallow, to the beat of their impending doom." DropTheAnvil fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Aug 5, 2022 |
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Aug 5, 2022 21:18
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Is there a more natural way to move discussion to other threads apart from pointing to a thread that hasn't seen a post in almost a year? Can you auto-move posts and notify users that the discussion has been moved to a different thread? The other thing is, this thread gets way more traffic than other threads in CC. I've seen users posts their own thread and get no responses. They usually post here to to let people know.
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Aug 6, 2022 15:59
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Luigi Thirty posted:Fortunately, I know the answers to these questions already! I like your outline style was pretty cool to see. Are you comfortable posting the final product?
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Aug 8, 2022 15:57
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Bit tired, so sorry if this is a bit snarky.wolberius posted:
The problem with the pitch above is elements are just zooming in, and disappearing. I don't know who the demon hunters are and I don't care. I don't care about this Incubus either. I was interested about Lilith (Sorry Lilian) looking for her friend and meeting a demon. What are the stakes, what is the problem she encounters, and what is she going to do about it, and at what cost. I am of mixed minds about your comp titles. You show a clear mastery and understanding of your novel (good), then compare it against older titles (Might be bad).
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Sep 13, 2022 03:47
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Admiralty Flag posted:Here's the thing: I can't bear to look at the damned manuscript again today. I don't know when I'll be able to bear to look at it again. But I want to work. I intentionally wrote it as an open-ended novel to admit of a sequel, with at least a trilogy possible if I didn't light my computer on fire out of embarrassment after the first novel was done. (I also have an idea for a pulpy paramilitary sci-fi idea bouncing around in my head -- this would be shorter, maybe 40K words, the first in a series of short stories.) Stephen King's On Writing talks about his view on when to get back to a novel, you might want to pick it up. The general idea is when you can see the tree for the forest, and are able to handle criticism and editing duties. Some of those editing duties might involve a whole rewrite of the novel (To rearrange events or match a genre better). I would put the novel aside until you get your readers feedback. You could get hung up on editing a scene and find out the readers love it. Start outlining the sequel, maybe do some short stories(Thunderdome is over here: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3989882 ) to get used to the editing/revision process.
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Sep 27, 2022 21:06
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Megazver posted:To be a bit cynical about it, if I was trying to publish a fantasy novel soon, I'd probably put in a bit of effort to become a recognizable poster over at /r/fantasy, to increase your chances at being able to do a bit of self-promo, strike up a relationship or two with fellow authors, get an AMA, etc. Speaking of /r/Fantasy, how is the book club going over there Leng?
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Oct 3, 2022 15:14
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:sorry, addendum: i'm SOWWY for huwting youw FEEWINGS i don't hate u for being an idiot asshoww, I take wesponsibiwity Addenndum: Addendum: Great post! Edit: I guess I should add here, I get it, that writing can be tough and self explorative, and maybe you need to take on a certain persona to get into it, but I don't know if expressing that persona on a dying comedy forum is the best place for it.
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Nov 17, 2022 21:49
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Maybe a simple title: Fiction Writing Advice & Discussion: Save the draft OR Fiction Writing Advice: Read more, Write more One thing I have noticed is that new people are confused about what we can or cannot post here (Myself included). There was some meme tumblr posts, some workshopping posts, and the response was to make a new forum thread. These are things that can generate discussion if used in the correct social group, which is why I think there was some confusion over what is or isn't allowed. Maybe drop the discussion part of the title?
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Jan 3, 2023 21:56
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Prompt: write a character description of a heavy set man with a huge rear end in noir style ChatGPT:He walked into the dimly lit room with a certain heaviness to his step. The kind of heaviness that suggested years of wear and tear on his joints, exacerbated by the extra pounds he carried. His frame was large and stocky, the kind that filled up a room even when he stood still. But it was his rear end that drew the most attention. It was massive, like two giant pillows straining against the fabric of his pants. The kind of rear end that you couldn't help but stare at, even though you knew you shouldn't. It was a sight that made you wonder how he managed to sit down comfortably, let alone walk around without toppling over. In a world of shadows and secrets, he was a force to be reckoned with. A heavy set man with a huge rear end, and a darkness in his soul that no one dared to confront. I'd say AI has a ways to go. But even so, there are a few sentences you could snipe from that description and tweak, especially if you writing commerical fiction. DropTheAnvil fucked around with this message at 21:02 on Feb 19, 2023 |
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Feb 19, 2023 20:59
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newts posted:But what if it’s the main character thinking this, a guy who’s supposed to be generally sympathetic? And the book is written from his first-person pov? I mean, I don’t go around calling people crazy, but I sometimes think it I could write a 10 page essay on this question. I'll make it simple. Who is your audience, do they considered that word bad form? Do you the author oppose use of that word, and if yes, what is more important: The Story, The Word, or the Author? Edit: I Think all authors hit this issue, where they are worried about writing something that might offend. While I usually just barrel ahead and "just write", there are no wrong answers. DropTheAnvil fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 16:05
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Should I avoid the term ‘crazy’ all together, even if it might be realistic that actual people still use the word because it might offend someone reading the book.
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The Sean posted:I've put off posting this for a while but: It has to be a heist? Like honest to god Heist like Ocean's 11 style? Make the object they have to steal evidence that the medicine doesn't work. Say they have to steal evidence, and they find out the evidence is Patient Zero, a monkey or something. Or, the medical company is going to do a big, public test and they have to swap it with a placebo.
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Apr 13, 2023 03:32
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Junpei posted:
That... tumblr post ... sounds like someone that has been through the querying wringer  .
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May 5, 2023 20:23
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Picking up one the every line has to be a mind blower discussion, what is a cozy mystery? Is it Cozy, as in you can sit down and read it rather easily, hitting no hard words or complex thoughts/metaphors that require a lot of thought? Or it is cozy as in the plot doesn't touch any hard issues that you might see in regular crime or thrillers? I've been reading Janet Evanovich recently along with John McMahon's novels and am wondering what the difference is.
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Jun 2, 2023 17:51
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sebmojo posted:
Joke like that makes me think you should explain how its not the Queens English they are speaking. Harbour or Harbor? I think Brandon Sanderson did a good comparison on explaining magic vs not. Essentially Lord of the Rings doesn't explain magic, cause its.. magic. While with Sanderson, he wanted the reader to be able to piece together how the protagnist was going to "win" in fights, so the explains the magic system in depth.
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Jul 27, 2023 00:42
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Wungus posted:I'm not going to address all of this and I'm not going to bother going into my own neurodivergence, but I am going to ask: why does your story HAVE to be about someone "regular" or whatever? I've read ten thousand stories about regular people. I have read a lot less about characters who are actually atypical. You've got a unique viewpoint. You could always try writing characters somewhat like you, to get practice writing any decision, and then move laterally away. Ihmemies posted:Well, I thought people want to be with similar people. Thus they also probably want to read about similar people too, not some weird rear end guys. Who wants to read stuff where the reader is always like “Why does he think like that? Why he does actions like that? What’s wrong with him??” flerp posted:not trying to be an rear end, but this same thought process can be applied to any minority group. "why would people want to read about queer people? most people are straight and cant relate." i dont have any metrics to back it up, but it seems like with the rise of more overt queer media that it isnt true that people will only consume stuff about the default, "normal" people. so i think there is a space for more neurodivergent protagonists and narrators as the space for media is expanding To make this completely circular logic, there are people out there that would say lhmemies shouldn't write about a neurodivergent protagonist unless they have personal experience. You can wrap yourself around this question so much that you wind up not writing. In the end, you should just write. Edit: And accept the consequences of your action. You write a boiler-plate noir novel, don't be shocked when people call it boiler-plate. DropTheAnvil fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Aug 3, 2023 |
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Aug 3, 2023 14:54
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Wungus posted:To flip the question, who wants to read stuff that is just the stuff they've already read but with differently spelled names? Who wants to write that? Here is the answer to your question Wungus posted:"What's wrong with him I can't look away" is like every protagonist I write. Every book I love. Every character people online go apeshit for. Every book that takes off. Everything interesting. People like/love different things. Janet Evanovich has a 30 book series on Stephanie Plum.
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Aug 3, 2023 15:22
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I've done a few synopsis, gotten a few full requests, but haven't sold a novel yet, so take my advice like the grain of salt it is: Read wikipedia / tvtropes to get used to spoiling your story and see what people do to summarize a story. A synopsis shouldn't look like a wikipedia article, but its a good starting point. A synopsis doesn't need all of your plot and subplots, but it does need the overall structure. Just like a blurb, spoil everything, but only put in the necessary elements for the structure of your novel. Look up a style guide on synopsis, some like only 4 named characters, names capitalized. DropTheAnvil fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Aug 16, 2023 |
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Aug 16, 2023 00:06
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Beezus posted:Alright, here we go: I would love some feedback on my pitch. This is for the first book of my dark-ish urban fantasy duology. The first book builds some romantic tension that culminates in book two. I wouldn't call book one a romance, but that's absolutely where the series is headed. It's sitting at 115k words and may get a little shorter after my next round of edits, but probably not much shorter. Rooting for ya dude!
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Aug 18, 2023 16:48
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Chillmatic posted:
What a well thought out and insightful argument. On the editor discussion, the thing I find frustrating with networking/editors, is the teaching writing Seeing this part of the industry makes me wince whenever anyone purchases those editing service. DropTheAnvil fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Sep 3, 2023 |
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Sep 3, 2023 00:49
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:
Honestly, you do you, and keep writing. I know that some authors get focused, and can thwart away their inner critic, by having an answer to the questions Stuporstar is asking.
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Oct 10, 2023 02:49
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The Sean posted:Does anyone have recs for fiction writing youtubes? I like to listen while I do chores etc but I can really only find screenplay-writing videos. https://www.youtube.com/@BookEndsLiterary Book Ends Literary does a discussion topic every week. They are two agents, one named Faust. I like the agency and who they have signed / what they have published.
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Oct 22, 2023 18:39
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