Fiction Writing Advice and Discussion: Read. Write. Crit. Repeat.

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Creative Convention > Fiction Writing Advice and Discussion: Read. Write. Crit. Repeat.

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

sebmojo posted:

The thot plickens

Whoa my account still works. Plot thickener galore.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2023 02:05

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 20:58

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

ActingPower posted:

Just put a picture of a bay window covered in plants and/or a curled-up cat on the cover.

Boom. Now it's a cozy.

Don�t forget the string lights.

# ¿ Jun 2, 2023 22:29

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

General Battuta posted:

Publishers may at one point have believed that Influencers Do Numbers but I�m honestly not sure that�s panned out.

This trend died exactly the death it deserved, sometime around 2019-2020

# ¿ Aug 5, 2023 22:45

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

Doctor Zero posted:

I use iCloud Drive for storage. I have Scrivener backup to my local drive. I also save new versions of the files for any edits more than a page or two. I know Scrivener has versioning but I don't trust anything to do what it's supposed to when my writing is concerned. When I finish something and start shopping it around I print out a paper Gold copy and keep it in a file drawer for an archive.

I'm not going to preach which services will steal your work and which won't*, but personally I don't trust Google Drive at all. I barely trust OneDrive, but I don't use it regularly. I trust iCloud enough to use it.

*Because they probably all do it.

Scrivener is rock solid and does exactly what it says RE: backups/versioning.

Also no one�s going to steal your great American novel. Back your poo poo up.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2023 22:49

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

Query letters aren�t the time to play coy. Spoil the genre, story milieu, word count, the primary protagonist/antagonistic forces and central story conflict. Demonstrate voice. Give the agent a clear and vivid idea of what they�re in for when they request the full.

Include a small blurb about yourself at the end. Thank them very briefly for their time. You should be the kind of person who seems pleasant and hassle-free to deal with, and reflect that in this section.

If you�ve had absolutely any contact with a specific agent before, PUT THAT AT THE TOP in front of anything else when querying that agent.

I�ve sold multiple titles and there�s no real magic to querying aside from sticking to the format, putting your best foot forward, and having a great pitch that calls out to be read.

Chillmatic fucked around with this message at 04:19 on Aug 16, 2023

# ¿ Aug 16, 2023 04:17

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

Note: I'm responding to the synopsis without reading any of the context you provided, the same as your intended audience.

Beezus posted:

Twenty-nine-year-old Marian Meyer dies for a living. And every time she dies, she goes to Hell.
these are compelling premises but each competes with the other and dilutes the impact of both. Which one is more relevant to your story?

Damned and drowning in debt, Marian�s stuck dying on repeat, fetching memories for demons trapped on Earth. The money�s good, but not that good, and demons are insufferable clients � especially the handsome registering as a romantic interest Mr. Vale, who pays extra for the privilege of killing Marian himself. a snappy conceit undermined because I have no idea why he'd bother doing this.

Marian�s a hardened cynic, yet she can�t help but be drawn to Tori is she an additional romantic interest? Confusing, now I'm concentrating on parsing that rather than reading on, a desperate woman she�s compelled why? to assist with what? despite the meager compensation. Together, they travel through Hell and into the path of the Remnant proper nouns other than names and places are risky in a query � an amorphous nightmare with an insatiable appetite for suffering I don't understand what this element of the story actually is; no visual image or sense of place/character. If it wasn�t for the mysterious weapon
don't do this Marian wrested from Hell, they�d be goners. But the knife is fickle; do this it won�t listen to Marian. In fact, it might be eating her soul. synopsis is starting to overfill, harder to concentrate on any specific element

Then Tori vanishes without a trace don't do this--at least say who/what took her before Marian can collect her fee. A desperate search ensues weak sentence; tell us who is doing what as debts come due I can't parse or visualize this, monsters emerge from the shadows, be more specific and Marian discovers she�s at the center of a conspiracy to unleash Hell on Earth. it's far too late in a synopsis to introduce an entirely new story facet Facing oblivion, she has no choice but to cut strike a dubious bargain with none other than cut Mr. Vale. But the demon harbors secrets Marian can scarcely comprehend. don't play coy Secrets with the power to shatter her world, and the next.

There may be a compelling story in here, but it's drowning in shallow waters. Too many antagonistic elements, no clear antagonist. Marian sounds put-upon and flustered, put in potentially interesting situations but not herself flawed in any interesting/apparent ways that suggest a character arc. Absent any compelling narrative context, "Being cynical" is a character flaw inasmuch as "Doesn't trust the system". Be more specific.

Use stronger verbs and nouns; reduce or consolidate story elements and introduce them as soon as possible.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2023 16:33

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

rohan posted:

I�ve also read the beta, which probably clouds my judgement a bit!

Side note, it's great that the author has readers giving feedback , but I strongly caution against taking feedback on queries/synopses from people who've seen the material in question. Fresh eyes are crucial to tightening up something--anything, really--for a general audience.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2023 16:37

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

Beezus posted:

Thank you for the detailed feedback! I noticed you referred to this as a synopsis versus a pitch. Are "pitch" and "synopsis" used interchangeably? I have something pretty different drafted for my synopsis and was under the impression that a pitch isn't quite the same thing. Not that I expect that would change your specific feedback... but does it?

They are not interchangeable, but what you currently have doesn't slot cleanly into either. I wouldn't worry too much about the nuance between pitch/jacket copy/summary/blurb/etc just yet. Effective queries are standardized across genre in the industry, and story presentation should follow that as closely as possible.

It's annoying as gently caress, I know. My own coping mechanism was to--not always successfully--see querying as a necessary evil; clarifying constraints that helped me write better stories. When I thought of it that way I spent a lot less time fighting the format.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2023 18:19

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

Beezus posted:

I'm trying. Trying and sobbing.

Here's some poo poo that I wish someone had shared with me. Take or leave, as you like.

1. Being a writer sucks enough rear end as it is. Be nicer to yourself.

2. You don't need to start querying today. I know--I know. It feels like you have to get this done or the story will die on the vine and you'll lose all momentum forever and what the gently caress have you even been doing with your life and you just suck and hoogity boogity NEVER GONNA BE A REAL WRITER AUUGHHH.

Slow down. Be nicer to yourself.

3. Think of what you want your readers to feel when they've finished the book, and the component parts necessary to create that feeling. Surface those elements when talking about/pitching/revising your work. Remember that your audience wants to love your story and the characters experiencing it--resist any temptation to get in the way. Oh and be nicer to yourself.

4. You're the agent now. Pitch the story in an email to yourself this afternoon. Take the rest of the weekend off. Don't open that email until Monday morning. I'm not kidding. No one else is going to see it, so it doesn't matter if it sucks. And who knows--with a fresh look at the thing, the bits that sparkle may organize themselves next time around, helping you see the value in being, well, you know the rest.

# ¿ Aug 18, 2023 20:21

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

I mean you absolutely 100% need an editor if you are presenting your writing to the public as something they should pay money for--or are trying to get the attention of someone who will put your work in that position.

But if you're skeptical then there's nothing wrong with asking if a given editor (depending on which specialization they do, experience level, etc) will take on a single chapter or section of your work before you fully commit. Some may agree, some may not.

quote:

This is an hour long, yes, but it's advice from a freelance editor outright saying a lot of people probably don't need one, and if you feel you do, here's the different types of editor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQ-eDMOJi0M

edit: most of her points boil down to: don't hire an editor out of your own pocket if you can't afford it, or are counting on becoming a mega-rich bestseller. In which case lol yes I agree entirely.

edit2: argh she keeps qualifying her absolute best point: if you can only afford the work of one editor, please for the love of god get a developmental edit rather than a line edit. Unless you're positive the story/characters/pacing are already as strong as can be.

Chillmatic fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Sep 2, 2023

# ¿ Sep 2, 2023 20:41

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

General Battuta posted:

They fly now?

They don't, and I think you know that.

General Battuta posted:

I don�t agree with this at all, I have never paid a cent for an editor. They pay me to edit my work when they buy it and that�s how it should be

u should of payed someone to edit ur posts lmao

# ¿ Sep 2, 2023 22:29

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

The quality of both the query and the manuscript it represents are more important than raw word count. Some agents will throw away a query over the word count but I�m not aware of that being super common.

If they love what they�re reading, you�ll get a request for the full regardless of whatever else.

# ¿ Sep 28, 2023 01:56

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

I've never read The Milkman but whew, I'm going to have to pick it up. That's a phenomenal example of voice--wide variations in sentence length, subjects and verbs in long distance relationships inducing tension and whiplash pacing and immediately grounding the reader in set and setting. :allears:

# ¿ Oct 9, 2023 16:03

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

I have zero idea what the gently caress you're talking about, dude. But if you write your stories in the same style as these posts, I would think twice before dismissing literally any advice.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2023 14:55

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

DropTheAnvil posted:

What's the reason to not start sentences with a gerund? For the life of me I can't remember why people were against it. IIRC, it was that starting with a -ing word can cause some grammar issues?

Like every other writing rule it's not "never do that" but rather "know what you're doing, and then do it with/on purpose."

Thranguy posted:

Doing it five times in a row gets annoying, and sometimes it's an easy way to misplace the participle. ("Being of sound mind and body, the stairs in the house are no danger to me." Grammar nerds would say it's the stairs that are sentient.)

Never heard anyone talk about sentience in relation to this.

The issue is with sentences like this: Talking in a low, deep voice, John said "why the gently caress did you, the writer, just tell the reader what a character did before telling them who that character is?"

It's putting the action before the actor. Which can be great if you're intentionally loading a sentence with suspense, or purposefully trying to obscure who is doing what. But this gets messier when numerous characters/entities are present in scene.

The stairs example above is common in amateur writing and is usually just an accident; often the writer is trying to reduce repetition in their sentence structure/ length/pace, or to give a character a 'fancy' voice. In most cases there are more ideal approaches.

Chillmatic fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Oct 24, 2023

# ¿ Oct 24, 2023 14:11

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

Find success in the present before asking a team of lawyers how to handle theoretical success in the future.

# ¿ Nov 6, 2023 19:58

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

Captain Log posted:

I've got loving "Stephen Hawking" disease.

Ok.

quote:

Having a goon reality check has been an important part of my process through the last few decades.

After reading your amazeballs query, a publisher isn't going to kick down your door and present you with a retroactively binding contract you've never signed. Paying lawyers in anticipation of a vanishingly-likely situation isn't how I'd do it, but it's your money.

# ¿ Nov 7, 2023 15:10

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

magic cactus posted:

I'm wondering if there are any books or resources out there that adress craft at a sentence level. Less "How 2 Write Like Beckett" and more "how to treat sentences as a part of the craft of writing."

This is probably what you're looking for. https://www.amazon.com/Writing-Tools-Essential-Strategies-Writer/dp/0316014990

Each section is short and to-the-point. Here's the very first writing tool he teaches, to give you a sense of how much bang for the buck each provides.

quote:

Begin sentences with subjects and verbs.
Make meaning early, then let weaker elements branch to the right.

Imagine each sentence you write printed on the world�s widest piece of paper. In English, a sentence stretches from left to right. Now imagine this. A writer composes a sentence with subject and verb at the beginning, followed by other subordinate elements, creating what scholars call a right-branching sentence.

I just created one. Subject and verb of the main clause join on the left (�a writer composes�) while all other elements branch to the right. Here�s another right-branching sentence, written by Lydia Polgreen as the lead of a news story in the New York Times:

quote:
Rebels seized control of Cap Haitien, Haiti�s second largest city, on Sunday, meeting little resistance as hundreds of residents cheered, burned the police station, plundered food from port warehouses and looted the airport, which was quickly closed. Police officers and armed supporters of President Jean-Bertrand Aristide fled.

That first sentence contains thirty-seven words and ripples with action. The sentence is so full, in fact, that it threatens to fly apart like an overheated engine. But the writer guides the reader by capturing meaning in the first three words: �Rebels seized control.� Think of that main clause as the locomotive that pulls all the cars that follow.

Master writers can craft page after page of sentences written in this structure. Consider this passage by John Steinbeck from Cannery Row, describing the routine of a marine scientist named Doc:

quote:
[8:11 AM]
He didn�t need a clock. He had been working in a tidal pattern so long that he could feel a tide change in his sleep. In the dawn he awakened, looked out through the windshield and saw that the water was already retreating down the bouldery flat. He drank some hot coffee, ate three sandwiches, and had a quart of beer. The tide goes out imperceptibly. The boulders show and seem to rise up and the ocean recedes leaving little pools, leaving wet weed and moss and sponge, iridescence and brown and blue and China red. On the bottoms lie the incredible refuse of the sea, shells broken and chipped and bits of skeleton, claws, the whole sea bottom a fantastic cemetery on which the living scamper and scramble.

Steinbeck places subject and verb at or near the beginning of each sentence. Clarity and narrative energy flow through the passage, as one sentence builds on another. He avoids monotony by including the occasional brief introductory phrase (�In the dawn�) and by varying the lengths of his sentences, a writing tool we will consider later.

Subject and verb are often separated in prose, usually because we want to tell the reader something about the subject before we get to the verb. This delay, even for good reasons, risks confusing the reader. With care, it can work:

quote:
The stories about my childhood, the ones that stuck, that got told and retold at dinner tables, to dates as I sat by red-faced, to my own children by my father later on, are stories of running away.

So begins Anna Quindlen�s memoir How Reading Changed My Life, a lead sentence with thirty-one words between subject and verb.

When the topic is more technical, the typical effect of separation is confusion, exemplified by this clumsy effort:

quote:
A bill that would exclude tax income from the assessed value of new homes from the state education funding formula could mean a loss of revenue for Chesapeake County schools.

Eighteen words separate the subject, �bill,� from its weak verb, �could mean,� a fatal flaw that turns what could be an important civic story into gibberish.

If the writer wants to create suspense, or build tension, or make the reader wait and wonder, or join a journey of discovery, or hold on for dear life, he can save subject and verb of the main clause until later. As I just did.

Kelley Benham, a former student of mine, reached for this tool when called on to write the obituary of Terry Schiavo, the woman whose long illness and controversial death became the center of an international debate about the end of life:

quote:
Before the prayer warriors massed outside her window, before gavels pounded in six courts, before the Vatican issued a statement, before the president signed a midnight law and the Supreme Court turned its head, Terri Schiavo was just an ordinary girl, with two overweight cats, an unglamorous job and a typical American life.

By delaying the main subject and verb, the writer tightens the tension between a celebrated cause and an ordinary girl.

This variation works only when most sentences branch to the right, a pattern that creates meaning, momentum, and literary power. �The brilliant room collapses,� writes Carol Shields in The Stone Diaries,

quote:
leaving a solid block of darkness. Only her body survives, and the problem of what to do with it. It has not turned to dust. A bright, droll, clarifying knowledge comes over her at the thought of her limbs and organs transformed to biblical dust or even funereal ashes. Laughable.

And admirable.

Clark never gets dogmatic about what a writer should or should not do. Instead he teaches the writer how to achieve specific results. "Do whatever you want, but know what you're doing, and then do it on purpose." was one of the earliest things my mentor taught me, and this short book is practically that lesson's platonic ideal.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2024 16:02

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# ¿ May 14, 2024 20:58

Chillmatic: Jul 25, 2003; always seeking to survive and flourish

Waffle! posted:

Current progress on Chapter 6:

What's the primary purpose of this scene? Based on the limited information I have, I'm assuming it's to show how cool or tough the proctor/Fox guy is? If that's the case then he strikes me as overly verbose for the kind of archetype you seem to be aiming for. Turning to Rose to deliver a wicked bon mot before Doing Action saps the scene of inertia. Can't believe I'm about to say this, but the scene needs a healthy dose of 'show, don't tell'.

Assuming this guy is meant to be the tough/distant/rusty-heart-of-gold mentor type, I'd consider rewriting to emphasize action and de-emphasize wisdom/witty quips. Additionally you're wasting world building and characterization opportunities with dialogue like "I want a rematch". Here's a quick pass to demonstrate these points.

quote:

One of those boys jumped in front of Black Fox's path, his fists glowing blue to create a large, studded shield. "Going somewhere? Let's see how tough you are without Professor Dinglydang backing you up."

Without breaking stride Black Fox put his hand on the boy's shield and shoved him backwards onto his butt. "Your footing is off." He stepped over the boy and continued onward, while Rose helped him back to his feet before catching up with her proctor.

"I don't think the other students here like you all that much," Rose said.

"Just means I'm doing my job," Black Fox replied.

# ¿ Mar 9, 2024 18:22

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