- Commie NedFlanders
- Mar 8, 2014
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I want to talk about Joseph Gooebbela & his role in Nazi Germany
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels
quote:Paul Joseph Goebbels (German: [ˈɡœbəls] ( listen);[1] 29 October 1897 – 1 May 1945) was a German politician and Reich Minister of Propaganda of Nazi Germany from 1933 to 1945. He was one of Adolf Hitler's close associates and most devoted followers, and was known for his skills in public speaking and his deep, virulent antisemitism, which was evident in his publicly voiced views. He advocated progressively harsher discrimination, including the extermination of the Jews in the Holocaust.
Goebbels, who aspired to be an author, obtained a Doctor of Philosophy degree from the University of Heidelberg in 1921. He joined the Nazi Party in 1924, and worked with Gregor Strasser in their northern branch. He was appointed as Gauleiter (district leader) for Berlin in 1926, where he began to take an interest in the use of propaganda to promote the party and its programme. After the Nazi Seizure of Power in 1933, Goebbels' Propaganda Ministry quickly gained and exerted controlling supervision over the news media, arts, and information in Germany. He was particularly adept at using the relatively new media of radio and film for propaganda purposes. Topics for party propaganda included antisemitism, attacks on the Christian churches, and (after the start of the Second World War) attempting to shape morale.
In 1943, Goebbels began to pressure Hitler to introduce measures that would produce "total war", including closing businesses not essential to the war effort, conscripting women into the labour force, and enlisting men in previously exempt occupations into the Wehrmacht. Hitler finally appointed him as Reich Plenipotentiary for Total War on 23 July 1944, whereby Goebbels undertook largely unsuccessful measures to increase the number of people available for armaments production and the Wehrmacht.
As the war drew to a close and Nazi Germany faced defeat, Magda Goebbels and the Goebbels children joined him in Berlin. They moved into the underground Vorbunker, part of Hitler's underground bunker complex, on 22 April 1945. Hitler committed suicide on 30 April. In accordance with Hitler's will, Goebbels succeeded him as Chancellor of Germany; he served one day in this post. The following day, Goebbels and his wife committed suicide, after poisoning their six children with cyanide.
His main role was an ideological & propaganda one, the further the cause, to win support, to convince the people to go along with the crimes of Nazi Germany.
Now I want to present this as a clean thought experiment, suppose Goebbels was not *"directly"* responsible for killing anyone, that is, let's say he didn't personally pull any triggers himself, but only motivated others to do it.
What was the proper justice to be brought against him? Execution? Was he merely expressing speech? He took the cowards way out so he was never tried, but I want DnD to discuss this and come to a conclusion.
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Jan 28, 2017 11:40
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May 2, 2024 03:16
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- Commie NedFlanders
- Mar 8, 2014
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Yes, obviously.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_T%C3%A9l%C3%A9vision_Libre_des_Mille_Collines
The people who ran the radio stations during the Rwandan genocide weren't out there with machetes themselves, but studies directly linked their actions to 51,000 deaths. Three people were convicted by international tribunal in the aftermath and given life sentences. There are plenty of other examples.
Goebbels was directly responsible for many, many more deaths, and he would have had a bad time at Nuremburg. There's mountains of precedent for exactly this thing in international law, I'm not even seeing where the other side of the argument is.
well you know some one out there is gonna be like "but what about free speech'
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Jan 28, 2017 19:24
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- Commie NedFlanders
- Mar 8, 2014
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Not really. I mean I guess some crazy people would take it that far but I think most people who believe the US' fierce protection on speech is a good thing wouldn't have a problem with what he did not being protected speech. Besides that, he was clearly a high level associate aiding and abetting a criminal enterprise so his exact role is irrelevant anyway. I guess someone could have a blanket opposition to the death penalty, but that's boring in the context of this thread. Really, his execution would logically follow from his level of crimes compared to other nazis that were put to death.
Honestly killing JG just isn't a very controversial thing. You want to make this thread interesting, let's talk about Anwar al-Awlaki.
This really doesn't fit for Goebbels because his skill at manipulation and propaganda was evident really early on and a department of propaganda is a pretty obvious thing you would want to create.
Anwar al Awlaki is a fine debate to have, start a thread
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Jan 29, 2017 03:40
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Jan 28, 2017 11:40
