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Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Cassian of Imola posted:

hey quick question op what was the USSR's policy on the Nazis before deciding that defeating them was the best strategy, and what made them change their minds

follow up: is it your contention here that the USSR generally supported the CCP over the KMT and is responsible for its success

if you're going to pretend that you don't understand why the molotov-ribbentrop pact happened how can you possibly be trusted to discuss the rest of socialist history

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Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

HallelujahLee posted:

i personally signed the molotov pact

meanwhile, cowardly members of the reform & revolution caucus decided they were too good to meet with one of hitler's top men

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world
but seriously, folks, if you want an example of an old bolshevik whose theoretical ideas were ahead of his time but who was too bad at politics to avoid getting killed, look no further than nikolai bukharin

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world
the cpc allied with the kmt on two separate occasions, the second time after a disastrous betrayal, and the result was that they liberated china from the foreign invaders and domestic capitalists both. this probably explains why mao praised stalin for his contributions to socialism and the cpc upholds stalin to this day

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

mila kunis posted:

That's so weird. According to this one moron American leftist Stalin betrayed them so why aren't they mad about it to this day? You'd think they'd be especially frank about him after the sino Soviet split

the funny thing is that not only CAN you have it both ways w/r/t mr. ioseb "socialism in one country" jugashvili but you CAN ONLY have it both those ways, because it is only by defending and supporting various socialist revolutions as they happen across the globe do you make concrete steps towards global socialism. trotskyist internationalism amounts in practice to socialism in no country, because, mysteriously, the non-european people who keep having a go never quite do it right and thus never quite merit our support or emulation

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Cassian of Imola posted:

no communism is cool, incl. existing forms of communism, including stuff like agricultural collectivisation. I didn't think Stalin was such hot poo poo what with all the shooting poets, the carving up Poland with Hitler, etc. but the USSR was sweet both as a utopian project and as a real existing place to live. absolutely unimaginable today that a country would, for example, create a massive bureaucracy dedicated to preserving and translating the literatures of dozens of languages and cultures within its borders while also pursuing space exploration and a universal standard of living. pretty sure I'm just the social retard kind of trot not the CIA stooge kind. but who can tell if they're a CIA stooge

if "carving up Poland with Hitler" is just something stalin did because the asiatic blood coursing through his veins made him crave evil and murder, what do you think the smart, sensible, trotskyist option would have been

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Cassian of Imola posted:

thinking about that scene in death of stalin when stalin fell over and peed his pants :laugh:

i wonder why lib dem supporter armando iannucci chose to depict stalin that way

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world
here's some cool dsa news. the IC's statement on the iran strike was acknowledged by al mayadeen

https://www.almayadeen.net/news/pol...%A5%D8%B3%D8%B1

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Top City Homo posted:

they were not ahead they were garbage and belong in the garbage

personally, i'm glad the right opposition lost same as the left opposition did. still, the modern-day success of china shows us that there's a way for a worker's state to benefit from tightly-controlled lower-to-middle-level marketization

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Weka posted:

I think this sort of marketization can't generally work immediately after the revolution, otherwise it's unlikely to be tightly controlled.

Is there some part of Bukharin's work you would recommend as particularly forward thinking beyond supporting the NEP as a sort of proto Dengism? Or did he advance that idea much beyond the actually existing NEP?


I've got to find a good history of all these soviet communist conflicts and dramas so I don't have to read all these dead enders works

i agree, that's why i call him "ahead of his time". i think you needed rapid collectivization and strong command and control in order to macro up enough t-34s to beat hitler, but bukharin's desire to just let the middle peasants enrich themselves (or whatever it was) looks a little less bizarre in light of the modern era

as for having actual readings to recommend: no, i am just going off what i understand as the conflict between the soviet center and bukharin's "right opposition" (like how the ancient proles of the round table podcast described him, possibly on their rev left radio guest appearance) and comments friends of mine have made. sorry! so it's possible i don't realize how stupid his ideas actually were and am talking out of my rear end

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world
but anyway, if i know one thing, it's this: the houthi lusts for vienna

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Cassian of Imola posted:

if you think somebody's opinion of a crazed paranoid alcoholic/revolutionary hero who peed his pants and died 70 years ago is a reliable indicator of their stance on gaza you should make it a point to talk to one single person in real life ASAP

it's actually a very good indicator, since the same ultras who pretend not to understand why molotov-ribbentrop was a good move also tend to pooh-pooh other struggles for national liberation in the face of colonial invasion as "campism" or whatever, and therefore denounce cuba, vietnam, china, and palestine. they'll be like, it's "campist" to support hamas against israel, in fact the workers of BOTH countries should--

Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

DaysBefore posted:

The only camp I support is the work camp at my grandfathers sugar plantation

oh so we're against broadening your horizons over summer vacation now??

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Ferrinus
Jun 19, 2003

i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world
5'5", 555 lbs. they call me the golden boy

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