- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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I'm kind of curious to hear how that negotiation would go, frankly. "what do you want" "REMOVE LIZARDS FROM U.N."
"...done?"
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Feb 4, 2017 09:18
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May 6, 2024 15:18
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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The members who want to leave Socialist International want to do so because it is not actually socialist. For example, its member parties are mostly lovely centrist parties like Labour, the Fench Socialist party, the German SPD, the Indian Congress party, PASOK, the PRI (lol), etc.
So it's like how hardly any progressive lobbying group is actually progressive.
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Apr 18, 2017 04:11
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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Is Bernie president yet?
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May 2, 2017 23:19
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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A rookie mistake.
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Jun 26, 2017 06:46
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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I understand how that's a good DSA ad (gently caress the rich) but how is it a good ad for E-trade (haha, gently caress you poors)
No see, they're making fun of those other people. *I'm* not one of those.
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Jul 12, 2017 08:03
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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So what are everyone's thoughts on Praxis vs. Momentum?
I don't know too much about either but I did read both of their statements. Praxis seems very vague/unspecific. I like that Momentum is much more concrete since it allows me to actually form an opinion on them.
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Jul 18, 2017 07:30
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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National events: by being Extremely Online.
Local events: by being Extremely In-Person.
This is extremely accurate. I felt like I had just roleplayed an investigative journalist by the time I figured out that the two major platforms are called Momentum and Praxis and found their statements. It honestly makes me want to drive down to HQ and get answers because this is beyond incompetence. Like seriously a single, text-only, HTML webpage that they host and send everyone a link to would be a 1000% improvement and should be like a week project at the most. The convention isn't even on the DSA website's calendar!
Speaking of which I just realized I have no idea what this Spring platform people are talking about is. And is the Winter platform the funny satire one?
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Jul 19, 2017 02:49
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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they're slates of people running for the national political committee with different visions of where to take DSA's new growth. Praxis is oriented around organizing a mass movement by investing in chapter's ability to local organizing, while Momentum wants to take us towards a more cadre approach with less members that are more active.
lol wait so Momentum wants the exact opposite of what its name claims?
This is an interesting interpretation because other than agreeing about Praxis having an organizing focus, I came away with the complete opposite impression of each's goals.
But maybe I need to read their platforms more closely!
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Jul 21, 2017 23:01
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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It's worth reading; it's short, and the actually policy proposals laid out in the plank are far more practical / less utopian than the marketing makes it sound. But I hate utopian marketing :|
Yeah it's weird because the headline is embarrassing but like 98% of the article is great. Sprinkled throughout it is the argument "Here's a list of all the problems we're facing, and therefore, abolish police and prisons." Um, what??
Like are they just being cute and seeking to completely replace the system with things we'll have new words for but serve similar functions? (this would be good) Or are they being literal in which case they're completely insane.
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Jul 25, 2017 07:59
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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This is good discussion comrades.
Now maybe I missed it but what's the goon caucus consensus on Buffalo's controversial pizza actions?
https://twitter.com/posadistcaucus/status/889880033501773825
For the record I am firmly opposed.
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Jul 25, 2017 18:15
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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Not good enough until we reach 100% imo
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Jul 26, 2017 15:28
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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really pulling for a posadist sweep
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Aug 4, 2017 07:13
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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quote:All -
Peg and I are sending this out to all the signers of the Unity through Diversity statement. We are asking for your thoughts on some questions we raise - but no hurry in getting back to us. We are not doing more DSA work until late today. For now we are going paddling and then planning our hikes and castle tours when we go to Scotland in Sept.
Also, thanks ti Sam Miemczewski for her thoughts on an earlier version.
The Fight over Danny Fetonte's Serving on the NPC
8-9-2017 Bill Barclay and Peg Strobel
It is with both sorrow and anger that we are writing this email, but we also have some hope. We are sending this to the people who signed the Unity through Diversity statement because we value your thoughts and ideas.
We believe it essential that we affirm the right of all workers to organize into unions. In fact, CWA, one of the few large unions that endorsed Sanders, has many police locals - see: https://www.cwa-union.org/about. DSA should not ostracize police unions; we should recognize that there are differences among police unions. To be specific, the police union that Danny Fetonte worked for as a union organizer is CWA 6911/CLEAT. It is different than .the Fraternal Order of Police (FOP). CWA/CLEAT is affiliated with NAPO. NAPO endorsed Obama in both 2008 and 2012.
We understand that the new NPC members, like ourselves, were exhausted by the work leading up the convention and the convention itself. And, unlike those of us who live in Chicago, most had to travel home. But, we do find it very alarming that the NPC failed to early and clearly issue a statement that all DSA members deserve a fair hearing and a chance to respond to coherently articulated accusations. The attacks and demands for resignation without full understanding of the situation are not comradely, and are certainly not fair or just. This failure of leadership is especially concerning as we enter what are likely to be turbulent times for the organization.
We acknowledge Theresa Alt's point that the new NPC has not set up a listserv, but the insistence that all members are entitled to a fair hearing and the right to respond could and, we think, should have been immediately said by NPC members individually in their roles as DSA members and elected leaders.
Danny has asked Austin DSAers not to respond to the tweets, FB posts, etc., because he believes that doing so will only escalate the conflict. They have agreed to refrani from responding. Some individuals took action and stood with Danny despite his wishes; they have been viciously harassed by other members. This behavior is inexcusable no matter what you believe to be the right course of action with the newly elected NPC. Many organizations have suffered and died because of the type of toxic infighting that has been evident for the past couple of days. We must remember we are all comrades who come from different backgrounds with different beliefs but are now in DSA to fight together to advance socialist policy and action.
Now on to some questions: - and we are interested in everybody's thoughts.
(1) What do people feel should be the balance between what one has done in the past and what one has done in DSA?
I ask because Danny has been essential in building the Austin chapter, including activities such as defending Muslims at a gathering on Austin's Muslim Capitol Day (see press here: https://www.texastribune.org/2017/01/31/texas-capitol-rally-muslim-advocacy-day-draws-1000). As you read this article, keep in mind that Texas is an open-carry state and that some of the right wingers seeking to disrupt the gathering were armed. This is only one example of his, and the chapter's, work.
(2) Who should be prohibited, based on their employment by/in an organization, or positions taken by an organization of which they were a member? For example, we have veterans in DSA and now a Veterans Working Group. They all served in an imperial occupying army -- they volunteered to do so, and some may have served as officers. Should they be eliminated from consideration for leadership? We think not. Another example: AFSCME in Illinois organizes prisons guards: should AFSCME members who organize prison guards be prohibited leadership positions? We think not. Or, to take a personal example: during Bill's career in finance, he led the development of a derivative product. Derivatives were part of what caused the financial panic and great recession. Perhaps Bill should also be prohibited from leadership roles. This list could probably be expanded significantly.
(3) We think the vote for Danny for a seat on the NPC represented both support for his politics and also a rejection of slates and slating. If Danny is forced off the NPC, should we demand that the next highest vote getter among those who signed the UTD statement be the person added?
(4) Do we want to issue any statement about what has been happening and/or the failure of the elected leadership to stand up immediately for basic rights, including a right to due process. There is a very late and weak statement along those lines that has been issued since we drafted this document. We think the concern is still valid, maybe even more so, given the weakness of the statement and that it came only from staff, not from the NPC.
(5) And the most difficult question of all: can we limit the destructive impact of this episode? Is it a teachable moment where we can get our members to look at the real world, understand that we all have to work in not perfect situations but that, even within those situations, we can sometimes make a difference (see the account below).
In another example of the out-of-control nature of what is happening, the member who administers DSA 's New Member FB plans to resign from that task. She is a good friend and called us to say that now she is under attack for taking down posts that are, We're pretty sure, beyond what is acceptable. She reports that the vast majority of the nasty posts have come from people with male names. This past weekend we passed a policy on harassment, it should be kept in mind when interacting with others, both off- and on-line. Members should never have to feel uncomfortable and attacked by their comrades.
This is a larger problem that we see, and it is a very serious one. We as comrades claim to be open-minded and fair, but we too easily get swept up in online drama. This behavior severely interferes with our ability to grow and be effective in our work. We must unify, stand together, and trust the process. We must first step back and ensure we have all of the information before jumping in and demanding action. We must demand a fair and just investigation and ask that our leadership take action based on the conclusion of those findings. If we continue down this path of toxicity, DSA will suffer considerably by creating a culture of hostility. In a time of dire need for unity we must give each of our members the benefit of the doubt and the support they each deserve while our elected leadership finds appropriate solutions.
We are sending this by email, which we realize is not particularly secure. If you want to respond but don't want to use email, email Bill indicating some times you want to talk. We could set up a conference call for all interested. We're on vacation where our cell phones don’t work, so we need to talk by internet and will set up a call.
An addition:
We talked with Danny Tuesday morning and learned more about his Communications Workers of America (CWA) work organizing with police for which he is being deemed by some to be unfit to serve on the NPC. He was asked by CWA to negotiate the affiliation of CLEAT into CWA. CLEAT became CWA Local 6911. For the next 20 years, while Danny organized wireless workers, public workers, airline workers, he served as the contact for the rest of CWA with CLEAT/CWA. For five years he was paid by CLEAT to train and organize Sheriff Officers. The work with the police units included the following. After liberation, the newly elected South African government asked to send someone from their police to the U.S. for training. Danny was asked to help escort the leader of the South African police. The woman they sent, a leader in the South African police union, had served in the police during apartheid and simultaneously in the African National Congress underground. She received training, but she also "trained" U.S. police officers by telling them that police unions should fight not only for wages and pensions but also for better conditions (food and education) for the prisoners. Doing so, she said, would mean that, when their sentences were finished, prisoners would be better able to function in and contribute to society; they would be less likely to be recidivists, less likely to be enemies in the future. One of the many points to be drawn from this anecdote: do not make assumptions about someone based upon the job they hold or once held.
I 100% agree with this and I find people's propensity to form firm conclusions before details are investigated and confirmed to be both disturbing and unsurprising. It's surprisingly easy for things to appear one way and in actuality be another.
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Aug 9, 2017 17:25
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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hey guys I just graduated from the police academy ama
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Aug 11, 2017 07:39
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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What we need going forward is a blood test for cops kinda like in The Thing.
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Aug 11, 2017 16:44
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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So let me tell you about my eclipse story. A couple days ago, my boss set up a lottery to determine who would get to look at the eclipse. Out of everyone, nine people would get see this once in a lifetime event, everyone could basically pound sand.
Well, as you can imagine, none of us here thought much of that idea. So, come the moment of totality, everyone heads out at once. I was one of the last people out so I got a sight of something just as beautiful as the eclipse itself. This lovely fast food restaurant, where people sweat and waste their lives on drugery was suddenly still and empty.
For just a few glorious moments the wheels of capitalism had ground to a halt, and we were all outside, staring at the sky.
Your boss has been entered into another lottery.
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Aug 23, 2017 01:32
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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The Fetontic Fetontites of Fetonia
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Aug 29, 2017 02:48
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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I honestly don't get the lack of communication both pre and post convention. It's not that hard.
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Aug 29, 2017 03:18
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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holy poo poo lol
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Aug 31, 2017 06:50
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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gently caress yeah
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Nov 8, 2017 03:54
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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Went out canvassing for the first time ever today, pushing M4A. We had about 15 go out from our chapter. I was nervous to start with but that faded very quickly. Had some really great conversations with folks but at the end they still had the "so what do you want?" look and attitude. Not sure if it is just my chapter, but the "ask" of people was for them to go out and canvass too (and a later date). That's pretty ballsy to me, to try and get a random person to go door knocking with you. Why not ask them to come to a chapter meeting? Sign up for a newsletter? Consider joining DSA? Hell, call your senators and tell them to support M4A? While I really enjoyed my time, felt like I was letting a lot of opportunity go to waste.
Wow yeah that sounds extremely ineffective. Is that standard because that's the equivalent of proposing at the start of a first date.
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Nov 20, 2017 03:12
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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all religions are bad but not all practitioners of religions are bad
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Dec 13, 2017 19:18
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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Hey what's going on with online DSA guys?
*checks thread*
Oh. The usual I see.
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Apr 24, 2018 20:03
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May 6, 2024 15:18
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- I Am A Robot
- Jul 1, 2006
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For real though, I study language and I'm 100% behind adjusting your speech patterns to be more inclusive/respectful of your audience but it's also really frustrating when the people who don't like a particular phrase bite someone's head off for using it. If the person refuses to change and is being an rear end in a top hat then fine go ahead, but changing your speech patterns takes a long time and given how subjective language is, it's also very possible that the person wasn't even aware of alternative interpretations.
Like a few months ago I was clueless that some people aren't happy with using the term "batshit crazy" to describe white nationalists. (it equates mental health with hatred which isn't usually the case)
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Apr 24, 2018 20:14
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Feb 4, 2017 09:18
Hello DSA thread. 
