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The show continues to make the pirates too strong and 'noble'. Rackham didn't have a hero crush for Vane, he took his ship from him. Blackbeard died from a random cut to the neck, not in a 10-minute scene with a captive audience. And all this talk of a glorious revolution is just... ehh. I'm fully expecting that next they will take Rodgers' successful defence of Nassau from Spain, and give it to Flint, or something.
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Feb 14, 2017 07:08
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 16:29 |
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Did you forget it's fiction?
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Feb 14, 2017 07:38
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LemonyTang posted:The rowing out, the "shock" that not everyone on the boat was dead, the unconditional surrender. This show is so loving predictable. The pirates never win. This episode tried so hard to be suspenseful and it fell so completely flat. I think the suspense of what happens in the very end is deffo not why I like to watch it, given there are 3 characters that you know will 100% survive at the end as per Treasure Island. And I also don't think they intended much suspense for that, and moreso for how the characters react to it. I mean...what suspense is there to be had as to that not everyone on the boat is dead, when literally at the start of this episode you see Rogers packing said boat like a clown-car with soldiers during the speech, and know that if Blackbeard ever boards that ship, he's playing right into his hands? Although I do agree that Rackham's surrender was shot p poorly and just comes across as weak poo poo, lol...still waiting for a gif of Blackbeard's look of utter dissapointment right then at that turn of events, since Ray Stevenson's face is like...an amazing conduit of communication. It's also not much point to bet on suspense, since anyone can know well beforehand that Blackbeard, Vane, Rackham and Anne all died historically and the show's been pretty consistent in offing those types of characters in similar-style situations (see Blackbeard going down to p much the exact same tactic IRL). CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Feb 14, 2017 |
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Feb 14, 2017 13:34
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No one knows what happened to Anne. Mary Reed got hanged.
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Feb 14, 2017 19:34
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meristem posted:The show continues to make the pirates too strong and 'noble'. Rackham didn't have a hero crush for Vane, he took his ship from him. Blackbeard died from a random cut to the neck, not in a 10-minute scene with a captive audience. And all this talk of a glorious revolution is just... ehh. I'm thinking that he'll defend Nassau but still get run off via the pirates and thus we have a nice little pirate paradise that sets up Treasure Island. It loosely correlates with history since he returned to England and was imprisoned for debt during his first run as governor and it wraps up nicely as a poo poo ending for the season antagonist and some sort of noble victory for Flint (who prob dies in the process)
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Feb 14, 2017 21:34
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What is with all the spoiler bars? Especially for the aired episodes, but even for the historical stuff. Look, without knowing anything specific, I'd bet that literally none of the historical pirates had happy endings where they retired to a cottage somewhere. And I'm pretty sure Nassau doesn't get taken over by the pirate rebellion, because I was there when I was ten and I'm pretty sure it wasn't ruled by a colorful gang of pirates and whores. My mother would not have been okay with that, for one thing. Did it ruin Deadwood to find out the real Al Swearengen died penniless in the gutter? gently caress no, because that had nothing to do with the show. meristem posted:The show continues to make the pirates too strong and 'noble'. Rackham didn't have a hero crush for Vane, he took his ship from him. Blackbeard died from a random cut to the neck, not in a 10-minute scene with a captive audience. And all this talk of a glorious revolution is just... ehh. But that's the point! It's a loving television show, it borrows the bits from history that it likes and makes up the rest, because it makes a fun story. Blackbeard may have fallen for the same trick he did IRL because they thought it was a neat way to do it, but Ned Lowe died in wildly different circumstances. It doesn't matter what actually happened in the history books because we are not watching a historical recreation, we're watching a fun pirate action drama.
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Feb 14, 2017 21:51
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Yeah, Hornigold was lost in a shipwreck. I like that they're not following history very much at all because that's not what this show is about and it makes it interesting to watch.
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Feb 15, 2017 00:31
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I honestly did not know that many of these characters are based on historical figures. I thought this was just based on the characters established in Treasure Island, which I also did not realize featured people who actually existed in reality. Do you guys have any recommendations what books/resources I should look for to read up on how this all went down? It would be awesome if a writer like Erik Larson tackled the subject since his books read more like novels rather than dry, boring history text books.
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Feb 15, 2017 01:30
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It's funny that the fictional Treasure Island characters have plot armor since they supposedly want to come back for a Treasure Island movie, while the historical characters aren't tied to their actual historical roots.
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Feb 15, 2017 01:40
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Inspector 34 posted:I honestly did not know that many of these characters are based on historical figures. I thought this was just based on the characters established in Treasure Island, which I also did not realize featured people who actually existed in reality. Do you guys have any recommendations what books/resources I should look for to read up on how this all went down? It would be awesome if a writer like Erik Larson tackled the subject since his books read more like novels rather than dry, boring history text books. Of the main characters these are real people: Charles Vane Jack Rackham Anne Bonny Benjamin Hornigold Woodes Rogers Israel Hands Blackbeard
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Feb 15, 2017 02:22
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A black sails adaptation of treasure island would be dope
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Feb 15, 2017 04:05
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Put a coat on Flint the parrot!
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Feb 15, 2017 04:52
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Phenotype posted:But that's the point! It's a loving television show, it borrows the bits from history that it likes and makes up the rest, because it makes a fun story. Blackbeard may have fallen for the same trick he did IRL because they thought it was a neat way to do it, but Ned Lowe died in wildly different circumstances. It doesn't matter what actually happened in the history books because we are not watching a historical recreation, we're watching a fun pirate action drama. It's not that they changed history, it's that history was more fun. Inspector 34 posted:Do you guys have any recommendations what books/resources I should look for to read up on how this all went down? It would be awesome if a writer like Erik Larson tackled the subject since his books read more like novels rather than dry, boring history text books.
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Feb 15, 2017 07:40
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I'd find a modern edit of Pyrates. Makes it much easier to read. And honestly, pretty much anything written after that is just retelling the same information. edit: Under the Black Flag was pretty good too.
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Feb 15, 2017 15:18
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It's wasn't a lack of foresight that killed them, it was oversight.
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Feb 15, 2017 17:09
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meristem posted:But that's my point! My beef is not that the show changed history, it's how it changed it. Rackham going emo for Vane (and since now, presumably, Blackbeard) turned him into a stereotype of a daddy issues sufferer, which is especially painful because the historical Rackham didn't seem to care that much about either. Silver and Flint are now endlessly politically sermonizing. Boring *and* unnecessary, especially given that the historical pirates were not much for political foresight. (In fact, all this talk from Flint about "raising all the New World" stinks painfully of the show writers going, wink-wink, there will be a revolution in America within a century, so our Mary Sue will be vindicated then (ain't we clever).) And while Blackbeard dying without having achieved much was awesome, dying from a random neck wound could have been Khal Drogo level of fun. It's not based on history, it's based on Treasure Island, and Robert Louis Stevenson probably didn't know how most of the actual living pirates died or if the really truly lived. TI was written to romanticize the pirate era and its players, not to provide an accurate history lesson. I thought Blackbeard actually died presumably from hanging on an island off the Carolinas, for instance. So what? Way more brutal to have him die from a shot to the head after being keelhauled three times and refusing to die. The show is a historical fiction with liberties taken, based on a piece of classic literature that is a work of historical fiction with liberties taken.
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Feb 16, 2017 15:52
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life is killing me posted:TI was written to romanticize the pirate era and its players To be fair, it really doesn't try to do that. Like Silver is a fairly ambiguous figure. He's kind of a bastard, but he also just sort of sees piracy as a job and plans to retire with his wife, and he's not particularly cruel or anything, but he will absolutely gently caress over anyone in any situation if it benefits him. And the other pirates are worse, lacking even his basic humanity. Jim in the beginning of the novel is certainly the type of lad to buy into all that adventure bullshit, but by the end he's all "Yeah there's totally silver still on that island, but gently caress if I'm going back for it. Land rocks, the sea sucks a hobos rear end in a top hat.". The story of pretty much all it's invented pirates not Silver is "Died of drinking too much, couldn't manage their money worth a drat" or "Brutally murdered". It's very much about the end of the age, and I don't know that it particularly spices up or romanticizes the lives of pirates. It's just told so well and Silver is such a powerful figure that it changed the consciousness in spite of that. Mulva fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Feb 16, 2017 |
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Feb 16, 2017 16:21
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I loved Treasure Island as a kid. I have no idea how it isn't mandatory reading in school but the Scarlet loving Letter is. That book is a garbage fire of boredom and dated story telling. I refuse to believe it was ever held in any esteem out side of disconnected educators, even in its own time.
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Feb 16, 2017 19:59
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this episode answered the age-old question for me of "What if Yukon Cornelius was an assassin"
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Feb 17, 2017 08:00
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Oh you crazy Eleanor.
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Feb 20, 2017 07:13
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I hope Anne is okay, but if not what a way to go.
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Feb 20, 2017 07:42
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Nouvelle Vague posted:I hope Anne is okay, but if not what a way to go. I kind of read the scene as she saved everyone (who was left, anyway) by being a badass and sacrificing herself. Looked to me like she breathed her last in Jack's arms. Having the serial cage matches was like the Black Sails equivalent of leaving James Bond to die in some kind of elaborate Rube Goldberg machine but not sticking around to watch it happen. A bad idea.
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Feb 20, 2017 08:00
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Were Jack and Anne really that infamous, though? I think as far as the British were concerned, it was Edward Teach and a bunch of random pirates. So if you've got this big hulking dude who wants to fight pirates and smash 'em with a hammer, let him go nuts, whatever.
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Feb 20, 2017 09:03
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I skipped seasons 2 and 3 and it doesn't seem like i needed them.
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Feb 20, 2017 15:29
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Season 2 was the best one though.
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Feb 20, 2017 17:15
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Solice Kirsk posted:Season 2 was the best one though. The cannon-loving of Charlestown by Vane's cronies was 
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Feb 21, 2017 01:35
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Phenotype posted:Were Jack and Anne really that infamous, though? I think as far as the British were concerned, it was Edward Teach and a bunch of random pirates. So if you've got this big hulking dude who wants to fight pirates and smash 'em with a hammer, let him go nuts, whatever. Nah, "Calico" Jack Rackham is one of the big pirates of the era. Remember, he was the one who actually stole the Urca gold. Speaking of which, it was kind of funny how last week had that bit where they just hand waved away last season's subplot about the Spanish attacking the island if they didn't get the money back.
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Feb 21, 2017 03:31
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Elephanthead posted:I skipped seasons 2 and 3 and it doesn't seem like i needed them. That is strange.
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Feb 21, 2017 06:32
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I don't need a story to see people getting brutally killed. I just fast forward the talking parts.
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Feb 21, 2017 15:31
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I actually fast forwarded through the parts in the last episode with only Max in it. She just talks so slow.
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Feb 21, 2017 15:57
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She's also an uninteresting, trifling, long-winded character with an inflated sense of self-importance and always seems to be trying to reach above her station in everything. She constantly over-estimates her importance to others as well, and then it blows up in her face when she finds out she's not as important to whomever as she thought she was. She's fun to look at but damned if I don't think she should've been killed off early in the show because ugh. It's not the actress at all; she's good except for the accent. It's the character.
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Feb 21, 2017 16:02
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She's an important character because she's the only representation of Nassau's merchants/non-pirate residents, but yeah the character hasn't really been doing much for like 2 seasons. I don't understand where in the past 2 seasons LJS's character became The Pirate King. I know when he lost his leg his crew started liking him more, but when did he became this pirate messiah character?
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Feb 21, 2017 17:51
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SHOAH NUFF posted:She's an important character because she's the only representation of Nassau's merchants/non-pirate residents, but yeah the character hasn't really been doing much for like 2 seasons. He stomped a guys face in and then Billy concocted a wholesale propaganda word-of-mouth campaign to mythologize him. This then peaked with him presumably getting the credit for the pirates winning the season 3 finale.
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Feb 21, 2017 17:55
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Eleanor never bothered me until this last episode where they added MORE CLEVER ELEANOR PLOTTING for her, I just dont care for it. Really I think Silver shouldve said LOL gently caress YOU FLINT because the money is the ultimate motivator for the pirates, moreso than just having Nassau to themselves (only to be taken over again). Felt real worried for Anne Bonney, it was a good scene though. I didnt think Jack Rackham would actually just start choosing pirates to fight, seemed cold blooded to me but shows he has some iron in him.
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Feb 21, 2017 20:49
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life is killing me posted:She's also an uninteresting, trifling, long-winded character with an inflated sense of self-importance and always seems to be trying to reach above her station in everything. She constantly over-estimates her importance to others as well, and then it blows up in her face when she finds out she's not as important to whomever as she thought she was. Yeah all of that too. muscles like this! posted:Nah, "Calico" Jack Rackham is one of the big pirates of the era. Remember, he was the one who actually stole the Urca gold. PlushCow posted:Felt real worried for Anne Bonney, it was a good scene though. I didnt think Jack Rackham would actually just start choosing pirates to fight, seemed cold blooded to me but shows he has some iron in him. Quoted both cause they're related. Jack might be a famous pirate now, but what about in the show though? I'm trying really hard to think of his accomplishments but I'm really not recalling anything. His claim to fame basically amounts to having been a pirate under Vane and on a "first name basis" with him so to speak, though I'm not really sure what his 'ranking' was among the crew. He stole some gold and then kind of ruled over(?) Nassau but I also remember he had a really hard time finding a crew. Blackbeard didn't seem to respect him as a pirate, just respected the fact that he was close to Vane. He certainly didn't respect his combat abilities. I dunno, it just seems to me that the surviving crew really have no reason to follow or accept his leadership. I would have thought he would have been thrown overboard immediately. He was a captain, but he wasn't "their" captain. I'd bet that Blackbeard's crew had the utmost 100% loyalty and fanaticism towards Blackbeard himself and Jack picking someone to basically die for him doesn't seem like it would go well at all. Especially cause there was absolutely no hesitation on Jack's part. And then he did it again, and again, and again. I thought Jack lost the crew the moment he didn't stand up to fight (and die) for himself because that's what Blackbeard would have done, and his crew just watched Blackbeard literally refuse to die.
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Feb 22, 2017 00:19
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To add to your point, you would think that there would be a seething, murderous resentment towards him from Blackbeard's crew even before this episode's events due to Jack's choking under pressure while in captaincy of Queen Anne's Revenge, placing his emotions and personal feelings above thoughts of his crew's best interests/survival and delivering all of Blackbeard's men up for execution by Rogers with his totally unnecessary and easily avoidable surrender of the Queen Anne's Revenge.
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Feb 22, 2017 01:19
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Yeah I'm not really sure why he did that, probably entirely for Anne though. Do you think Anne would have done the same? I mean yeah they care about each other but Anne's not stupid and even said in the last episode that the only ending for them would be a public hanging in London. If she knows that then I'd imagine either herself or Blackbeard, if they were the captain on board, would have chosen to blow their ship apart and save some of the crew (and live to rebuild) rather than getting them all captured and killed.
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Feb 22, 2017 07:56
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I really liked this show awhile back. The "revelation" with Flynn was pretty interesting, and everyone had their particular goals, but now it's all mixed and hosed up in a not-cool way where the motivations of each character don't make sense anymore. The girls are the worst, and I'm a girl and was routing for all the pirate girls in a silly way ( I mean, they are like 20-1 as far as main characters) and now, out of the 3, one is probably dead, and literally the only other two are traitorous or semi-traitorous to the pirate" cause, turncoat jerks, and the pirates are who you kinda who you want to win? right? I mean, who is watching and routing for the British? 
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Feb 24, 2017 07:32
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I edited that so poorly that it turned into mush, but I think I my point stands. Sorry though! 
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Feb 24, 2017 07:33
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I think at this point you kinda have to laugh at Jack for not killing Rogers last season. "Everyone you ever cared about is dead because you didn't kill this one guy when you had the chance."
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Feb 24, 2017 08:47
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