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emanresu tnuocca posted:Yeah that was absurd, it almost felt like an intentional joke with how awful it was. The guy would fall down for the same reason everyone else is standing on the floor, the station's rotation. The only silly thing in my mind was why they had an airlock in the wall rather than in the floor like on Ceres. And also he got blown backwards pretty dramatically by the relatively small amount of air in that airlock. Edit: WhiskeyWhiskers posted:He should have been flung along the trajectory the stars in the background are going. Edit2: I really appreciate how they get acceleration/gravity right in this show, without making a big deal about it. But it's cool when it's emphasized, like the scene with Amos opening the safe in the airlock, how you see the ship in a traditional sideways orientation and zoom in on Amos who's sideways relative to that. Honestly it's made any other sci-fi ship design feel silly with how the decks are all oriented perpendicular to the direction the ship goes. Even if you have artificial gravity, surely it'd make more sense to have your gravity compensate for acceleration at the same time, rather than making it work in two directions (or a weird angle) every time you move. Eiba fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 15:58
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Eiba posted:I feel like I'm missing something. Why wouldn't the star field be moving in that direction? They must be at the flat end of the rotational cylinder, like looking out the side of a wheel. Wouldn't it look like that? A soft e;fb
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Feb 6, 2017 16:03
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He's travelling at 1g when he leaves the station, he'd continue on that trajectory. e:Hang on, I've confused myself. Yeah, I must have somehow thought it was looking down, but that wouldn't have made sense with how he's thrown in.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:03
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Eiba posted:Oooh, you think they were looking down. Nah, they were looking out the side. For whatever reason. Yep, the net force acting on him is down toward the direction of his feet. WhiskeyWhiskers posted:He's travelling at 1g when he leaves the station, he'd continue on that trajectory. he is continuing on the trajectory. The station is huge and has a large enough arc that the brief view appears that the stars are moving horizontal. The rotational velocity is enough that it *appears* he drops perpendicular to the floor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btxMd5mbPeM&t=55s Proteus Jones fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 16:04
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:He should have been flung along the trajectory the stars in the background are going. He probably should have been flung at a bit of an angle because of coriolis, but any spin fast enough to simulate gravity would fling him mostly outwards/downwards.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:11
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Wait if it's a spinning station wouldn't they be walking on the sides? Meaning all surfaces perpendicular to their 'floor' would be looking up or down? He should have gone in the direction the station was rotating, either left or right offscreen. e:No, I'm an idiot that would be what would happen if they dropped him in the pit style one from last season. WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 16:13
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I meant downward relative to the perspective of the camera, that is on the negative Y axis from our perspective not on the Z the axis. The truth is that in this sort of situation he shouldn't be flung anywhere at all, he should 'slide' out of the picture along an arc parallel to that of the starfield, there is actually no force pushing him outside of the airlock short of the escaping air which a. shouldn't be too powerful anyway and b. should just push him gently 'outwards' (Z axis relative to the camera). The station's spin doesn't generate some gravitational field, the centripetal force just pushes people towards the axis of rotation, it's just the normal force of the hull really. It will have no effect upon anyone outside the station.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:15
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Mu Zeta posted:I really want one of those MCRN mugs. I assumed it was just something from Stanley with a coat of paint but I see nothing like it. Man, good luck finding one of these mugs in the US for less than $rape. I'm still looking, but they are a German company without much presence over here.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:16
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tooterfish posted:He's on a spinning station. Centrifugal acceleration acts perpendicular to the station's spin, that's how it simulates gravity (i.e it pushes people "down" to the "floor"). Centripetal force. Centrifugal is a "psuedo force" that only exists within the rotational frame. Centripetal is what makes his body follow the curved path. Once that force is removed (when he's forced out by atmo evacuating) he'll continue on a straight vector. Observation from within the spinning system, it will appear as if he drops away. If the door were bigger, he'd appear to be moving downward at a diagonal.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:17
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flosofl posted:Centrifugal is a "psuedo force" that only exists within the rotational frame. I thought that'd be simpler/more familiar way to explain what was happening.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:24
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Perhaps my highschool level mechanics are rusty but: Blue arrow is the tangent to the station's spin at the point he leaves the station, this would be his actual velocity vector as he is no longer subject to the centripetal spin, red arrow is the perceived direction he should move to from the camera's perspective as the station is still spinning. Him actually falling backwards (which he clearly does, look at his head in the gif) is really a physics goof. Maybe I'm wrong, not looking to start any fights, but it really looked wrong to me.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:24
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:He should have been flung along the trajectory the stars in the background are going. No he wouldn't 
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Feb 6, 2017 16:24
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emanresu tnuocca posted:The station's spin doesn't generate some gravitational field, the centripetal force just pushes people towards the axis of rotation, it's just the normal force of the hull really. It will have no effect upon anyone outside the station. Spin gravity is cool and fun to think about! Edit: Trust us, the spin gravity was depicted absolutely perfectly in that scene. The weird bit was what pushed him out of the airlock. He probably should have just fallen to the floor and suffocated, but for dramatic effect he got pushed out by the escaping air.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:26
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Platystemon posted:https://zippy.gfycat.com/AgileBasicCleanerwrasse.mp4 Platystemon posted:The best effects in the episode:
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Feb 6, 2017 16:27
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What's pushing him anyway? shouldn't he just remain in the airlock and suffocate?
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Feb 6, 2017 16:28
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gohmak posted:No he wouldn't The camera is looking perpendicular to this image though and continues along the original trajectory as the guy goes along the path of inertia. Why would he fall downwards? WhiskeyWhiskers fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 16:30
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gohmak posted:No he wouldn't Thanks, I probably should have just searched for a diagram like that. And if you look at the post above, the stars are actually traveling in an arc as you would expect.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:30
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emanresu tnuocca posted:What's pushing him anyway? shouldn't he just remain in the airlock and suffocate? They make it look like the air pushes him. Maybe there are powerful vents that blow air into the airlock specifically to flush it? They probably just wanted their cool spin gravity drop and honestly, I thought it was really cool so I'm not complaining too much. Imagine they're in a tall building and there's a vacuum outside. That's basically what happened in the show. Somehow he stumbled outside and fell out the side when the airlock depressurized. It's a bit silly, but not a huge deal. The part that looks silly- him falling in space- is totally accurate.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:34
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AlternateAccount posted:Man, good luck finding one of these mugs in the US for less than $rape. I'm still looking, but they are a German company without much presence over here. Selfquote, perhaps the lighting in the scene is weird, but I am thinking the one used is the BROWN color, not red:  Confirm/Deny?
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Feb 6, 2017 16:35
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Eiba posted:So you can imagine that the hull is actually moving sideways at a decent clip, but always arcing "up" because it's round and moving in a circle. If you "fall" out of the spinning cylinder, you're going to stop moving in an arc, but you will, in Newtonian fashion, keep moving sideways in a straight line. From the perspective of the people watching you on the station, who are being pulled up and away by the rotation, it will appear that you're falling (more or less) straight down below their feet until the rotation of the station turns them away. If the camera tracked his body it would move down and to the right from the door as the station spins away from the point of release but there is nothing scientifically inaccurate about the scene other that than the lack of venting atmosphere shoveing him out the door.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:34
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:The camera is looking perpendicular to this image though and continues along the original trajectory as the guy goes along the path of inertia. Why would he fall downwards? His head should be lined up with that star to the left of his head as he falls downward to the right. very slight knit pick.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:36
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The bigger goof is that docking acts like an on switch for gravity, even though the Roci is already matching the motion of the ring in order to dock with it. I have to go back and check, but I don't think they're pointed the right way for the apparent gravity to be in the direction of the ship's floors, either.
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Feb 6, 2017 16:55
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Toast Museum posted:The bigger goof is that docking acts like an on switch for gravity, even though the Roci is already matching the motion of the ring in order to dock with it. Agreed, but there's some speculation on how the floors are arranged. I guess in the books it's more clear that the floors are more vertically arranged like a big tall office building? Doesn't seem like the rocinante works that way, but maybe it does.
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Feb 6, 2017 17:09
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Perhaps my highschool level mechanics are rusty but: Nevermind, you were right. The red arrow should be pointing downwards however, due to centripetal (--edit: -fugal, whatever the gently caress) force. This poo poo is confusing. Toast Museum posted:The bigger goof is that docking acts like an on switch for gravity, even though the Roci is already matching the motion of the ring in order to dock with it. Can't have everything. Better this flawed attempt instead of Star Trek style artificial gravity. BSG was kinda so so, in that they had artificial gravity, that also didn't seem to fail ever, but went out of their way for Newtonian physics with their Vipers. --edit: vvv When the Roci reaches Tycho, before Miller plants himself, there's an exterior shot. Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 17:11
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Toast Museum posted:The bigger goof is that docking acts like an on switch for gravity, even though the Roci is already matching the motion of the ring in order to dock with it. I don't remember any external shots when they're docking, but what might be happening is that they're slowly drifting sideways relative to the station, and when the latch on to it it starts pulling them in a circle making them feel gravity. Imagine this image, if the green arrow (and the rotation of the circle) went the other way: AlternateAccount posted:Agreed, but there's some speculation on how the floors are arranged. I guess in the books it's more clear that the floors are more vertically arranged like a big tall office building? Doesn't seem like the rocinante works that way, but maybe it does.
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Feb 6, 2017 17:13
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That's actually one of the biggest problems I have with Tycho. Docking at the outer edge of a spinning object like that would be very difficult, if not completely impossible. The docks should be at a hub in the centre.
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Feb 6, 2017 17:45
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https://giant.gfycat.com/DependentCorruptAuklet.mp4 Rocinante has the correct orientation, but the cutting of the scene makes no sense. Miller should be decked when the thrusters fire, not when the clamps lock. tooterfish posted:That's actually one of the biggest problems I have with Tycho. Docking at the outer edge of a spinning object like that would be very difficult, if not completely impossible. Docking like that would be easy enough if you had computer control and enough propellant.
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Feb 6, 2017 18:47
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Oh. Yeah. That scene's totally wrong. The interior scene could happen if they drifted in on the tangent and were grabbed, but that's clearly not what happened. (And would be a silly way to dock anyway, as it would really stress whatever's grabbing them.) Still, it's one wrong scene in a show that at least tries, so there's that. Edit: Actually, I'm not sure what is going on in that scene. There are no thrusters firing to keep the Rocinante lined up with the docking clamps. If the clamps are spinning with the station as they appear, the Rocinante would need to be constantly under thrust to match their arc. They wouldn't be able to just drift next to the clamps like that. You can see little jets for every other movement, but not maintaining their relative position to the dock clamps that should be on a curved (and therefore accelerating) trajectory. Eiba fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 18:55
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Platystemon posted:https://giant.gfycat.com/DependentCorruptAuklet.mp4 Oh, good. I misremembered the shot with the nose pointed spinward. Smaller error: I'm pretty sure they'd have to keep thrusting laterally right up to the moment of docking to match the circular path of the dock; otherwise they'd be moving tangent to it.
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Feb 6, 2017 18:58
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Eiba posted:Still, it's one wrong scene in a show that at least tries, so there's that. Eiba posted:Edit: Actually, I'm not sure what is going on in that scene. There are no thrusters firing to keep the Rocinante lined up with the docking clamps. If the clamps are spinning with the station as they appear, the Rocinante would need to be constantly under thrust to match their arc. They wouldn't be able to just drift next to the clamps like that. You can see little jets for every other movement, but not maintaining their relative position to the dock clamps that should be on a curved (and therefore accelerating) trajectory. I'd wager that a space ship can afford purely tangential motion in combination with rotation around its axis for a short moment, to get caught by the docking clamp, instead of meticulously following the circular path of the ring. So long the alignment stays correct (via rotation). Like this the thrusters don't need to fire all the time. --edit: If some sperg would stabilize the footage and draw paths, I wouldn't be surprised that this is what happens on the top down view.
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Feb 6, 2017 19:06
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Platystemon posted:The best effects in the episode: I love this effect, but the particles should appear to counter-rotate opposite the ship's spin :sperg: Wait, holy poo poo, when Alex yanks back on the stick they do. Must not have been rotating before. LOVE IT
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Feb 6, 2017 19:09
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Platystemon posted:Miller should be decked when the thrusters fire, not when the clamps lock. Obviously the artificial gravity system doesn't activate until the docking clamps are locked. withak fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 19:14
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Combat Pretzel posted:I'd wager that a space ship can afford purely tangential motion in combination with rotation around its axis for a short moment, to get caught by the docking clamp, instead of meticulously following the circular path of the ring. So long the alignment stays correct (via rotation). Like this the thrusters don't need to fire all the time. --edit: If some sperg would stabilize the footage and draw paths, I wouldn't be surprised that this is what happens on the top down view. Kesper North posted:I love this effect, but the particles should appear to counter-rotate opposite the ship's spin :sperg: It's all really cool!
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Feb 6, 2017 19:16
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It would make sense if they were moving tangent to the ring, then thrusted forward when they lined up with the docking port. Edit: acgue the roci just needs to be stationary relative to the ring and thrust forward once the docks line up Subyng fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 19:18
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https://giant.gfycat.com/FamousMarvelousBlueshark.mp4 Here is the other PDC scene. Kesper North posted:I love this effect, but the particles should appear to counter-rotate opposite the ship's spin :sperg: Yeah, I think the spin is just shakeycam. Alex says “Hang on!’ as the particles drop to the floor.
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Feb 6, 2017 19:19
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Eiba posted:Not spin, that's regular acceleration. It all falls when he guns the engine because there's no difference between gravity and accelerating. (Unless you mean something else.) You're right, it wasn't spin. I was confused, because the exterior shot had showed the Roci rotating and maneuvering pretty heavily, so I didn't realize they weren't under any kind of thrust or rotational momentum relative to the other ship (either main thrust or the acceleration caused by maneuvering thrusters) at the time of impact. It makes sense though, they were doing a firing pass. And then, yes, right at the end they apply forward thrust and the particles "fall" to the floor. gently caress the cheap airlock scene, that's some quality SF right there 
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Feb 6, 2017 19:21
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Eiba posted:Wait, I don't fully understand this, but if they don't need thrusters except to orient a bit... doesn't that mean that the scene with Miller is right? He should be moving around a bit for all the minor corrections, but still essentially floating until the clamps latch on. Kesper North posted:gently caress the cheap airlock scene, that's some quality SF right there Combat Pretzel fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Feb 6, 2017 |
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Feb 6, 2017 19:27
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Combat Pretzel posted:Yeah, he should be moving across the room during the corrections, especially when the Roci enters an ongoing rotational motion (once you start spinning, it keeps going in space), because air drag wouldn't be enough to keep him in place while the ship rotates, unless his room happens to be at the center of rotation. Once the clamp latches to the ship, it'd force the ship into the circular path and create all the centripetal/-fugal forces for gravity.
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Feb 6, 2017 19:35
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Eiba posted:Ooh. So the real error could be the way it's cut. Assuming they did all the maneuvering before cutting to Miller, he could more or less have ended up in that position while they were drifting into position for the final clamping. In fact he could have ended up with all his stuff floating around like that as the result of minor accelerations messing with him. I guess he and his shoes should have been drifting a bit more, but otherwise the scene is just cut wrong by putting that final acceleration between two shots of Miller just floating. It could totally be fixed in editing that he's zero-g while the ship reorients for braking/maneuvering and then comes back under acceleration and he hits the ground and then they dock.
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Feb 6, 2017 19:40
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Subyng posted:It would make sense if they were moving tangent to the ring, then thrusted forward when they lined up with the docking port. From the gifs it looks like they solved the problem by having gimbals "catch" the ship as it sweeps past. That must be a bit teeth rattling though, to say the least (in reality it'd probably tear the ship in two). I still give the series a 9/10 for trying this poo poo when no one else would even bother. I fell in love with it when Miller poured his whiskey in the brothel in season 1, and the Coriolis effect caused it to spiral sideways into the glass. That's attention to detail.
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Feb 6, 2017 21:23
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