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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Smiling Jack posted:

Everyone on the show is assuming the "stealth ship" around Venus is Martian but I thought only Protogen had stealth ships?

Also anyone else get the vibe that Drummer killed those two guys to shut them up before they said anything about her actual allegiance? I have absolutely no proof for any of this but that's never stopped me before.

There's no way that's the case. It seemed pretty clear to me that Drummer is loyal to Fred and her listening to Dawes when he came to speak with her was her attempting to learn more about his plans. The chain of events in the attack on Tycho's CnC would be really strange if she wasn't loyal to Fred.

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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Smiling Jack posted:

Dawes didn't order the attack on the CnC...

Wow, thanks for the spoilers.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Smiling Jack posted:

This is a joke right

Does my avatar make me look like the kind of guy who would joke about spoilers?

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

NmareBfly posted:

I think they don't orbit and consume asteroids around Earth because a hundred years ago politicians freaked everyone out about how easy it would be to tip one down the gravity well and made that poo poo illegal.

This is not based on anything canonical, but it's a pretty valid guess IMO. Dumb humans being inefficient for dumb human reasons always trumps better solutions.

My take on AI in the Expanse is similar, too. We know the Roci has a pretty powerful computer system that can basically handle everything itself, so I could see the governments going 'well, poo poo, to prevent one power from developing autonomous kill-ships, we should put strict measures on what sort of AI can be developed'.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
Even in the books' take on Basic is pretty bad, dude. It's basically described as enough to survive on but not to live on. I've said before that the network access is basically a severely cut-down version of the normal Internet or whatever.

It's not the 'greatest', at all. It's subsistence only. It's really not a huge departure.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
When I see people saying that Basic is actually just fine to live on, I assume they've never seen what things like welfare cards and regulation of what people can and can't buy and what communities can and can't do will do to people.

Come on, there's people in this thread saying that they mustn't be on Basic because they're "bartering" (??) or "asking for money" (????). Next to the point that, surely, corporate overlords and the moneyed elite would lobby for an increase to Basic (?????), that's some of the weirder things people are saying in this thread.

Am I the only person who's seen people bartering for cash and things outside a supermarket simply because their welfare card can only be used on specific food? Has no one here used a tightly-regulated corporate Internet? What, do you think the free clothing or free apartments they provide are actually good?

That's the difference between surviving and living, which I'm surprised has to be illustrated. People on Basic will survive - they won't be dying in the streets, for the most part. But they certainly won't be living. If you want to live, like, enjoy your life and decide things for yourself, people turn to the underworld.

edit: Surviving is taking care of your physical needs - food, water, sleep, medicine. Living is taking care of your mental and emotional needs. Everything we see about Basic is that it does nothing for that latter category, which is why crime flourishes in certain areas and why people are so willing to barter for real money.

As to the unrest thing - what, you think you could have a successful armed revolution today? You think you could do it two-hundred years in the future where peacekeeping technology has become more militarised (hello, The Churn)? What're hungry, dissatisfied people going to do against people with power armor, military drones, automatic rifles that fire less-than-lethal ammo, and whatever else the UN might have on hand?

Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Mar 31, 2017

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
I think it should also be clarified for the thread, too, that it is Basic Assistance and not basic income.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
They don't want them impoverished, that implies it is their goal. They just don't care if they're impoverished.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

General Battuta posted:

Did this show get renewed yet or are we expecting :rip:

Two more seasons.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
I thought Miller meeting Julie was a really good moment that I'd put up there with almost anything from BSG.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Strom Cuzewon posted:

Season 3 is really wonky in places (they should have stayed on New Caprica for most of it imo) but the final few episodes, the Trial of Gaius Baltar and that reveal at the end were just fantastic.

The reveal was fantastic in the sense that it was well-made, but as an actual narrative choice... not so much.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
Anyway, episode was a decent finale. But it also had a very 'transitory episode' feeling, which is a bit odd when it should feel more like a full stop and not so much a comma.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

General Battuta posted:

The Martian frigate looked awesome, any screencaps?

It really made me think of one of the Vaygr corvette designs from Homeworld 2, but I've got no idea if my recollection is accurate.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
hmmmm yase why would protogen arrange a scenario where stealing or destroying the donnager would be advantageous :thethinkingemoji:

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
holy poo poo

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

dog nougat posted:

Are there any other sci-fi series somewhat similar to this? Like a modicum of realism/plausibility, and not totally insufferable characters. Trying to watch other poo poo is kinda tedious at this point and I can't suspend my disbelief.

Battlestar Galactica probably comes closest. However, even as a fan of it, the characters can be a bit insufferable (mainly in the third season) and it takes a dramatic nosedive in quality following Season 2. As good as it is, it hits the early 2000s notes of 'We have no idea where we're going with this story, let's keep throwing Cryptic Hints out there'. The first season is great (the first episode, 33, is one of the best TV episodes ever) as is much of the second season (with the mid season R-Ship arc being incredible).

The next closest is probably Babylon 5, but it's an older show and was low budget, even for its time. But B5 did try to ground things as much as possible. However, if you can get past the low budget aspect of it, it's still one of the best sci-fi series ever made. It definitely has one of the best series finales ever made.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
Much like the rewatch of the Terminator TV series I'm doing in TV/IV, BSG is one of those series where I'm like... What could have been...

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Elias_Maluco posted:

Ive watched BSG only recently, and I mostly really liked it, even the finale and the religious stuff

What I didnt liked is how the cylons got less interesting and made less sense as the story advanced

I think a few cast members, like Jamie Bamber, said similar things about the Cylons as the story went on.

TBQH, my biggest flaw with BSG is how it tries to play both sides of the discrimination debate. On one hand, the Cylons are basically perfect transhumans who pose an existential threat to humanity's survival. On the other hand, when it suits the narrative, they're actually no different to you and me and the only people who dislike them are unreasonable bigots. It sort of got too much into the Iraq War metaphor.

But Seasons 1 and 2 are just grand.

Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Sep 19, 2017

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
On the other hand, Amos in the books is described as basically a baby-face on a few occasions.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

twistedmentat posted:

I had a book of sci-fi short stories, and one of them has a super accurate space battle written by a psychiatrist and its about as exciting as reading a proof. The Russians and Americans were throwing asteroids at each other and it sounds like it should be exciting, but nope. Also, going out to the belt and grabbing giant rocks, then lugging them back to earth to throw at your enemies sounds like a lot more resources that nukes or railguns or laser or plasma weapons.

There's a Warhammer 40k short story that actually talks about that last part.

quote:

Rocks are NOT ‘free’, citizen.

Firstly, you must manoeuvre the Emperor’s naval vessel within the asteroid belt, almost assuredly sustaining damage to the Emperor’s ship’s paint from micrometeoroids, while expending the Emperor’s fuel.

Then the Tech Priests must inspect the rock in question to ascertain its worthiness to do the Emperor’s bidding. Should it pass muster, the Emperor’s Servitors must use the Emperor’s auto-scrapers and melta-cutters to prepare the potential ordinance for movement. Finally, the Tech Priests finished, the Emperor’s officers may begin manoeuvring the Emperor’s warship to abut the asteroid at the prepared face (expending yet more of the Emperor’s fuel), and then begin boosting the stone towards the offensive planet.

After a few days of expending a prodigious amount of the Emperor’s fuel to accelerate the asteroid into an orbit more fitting to the Emperor’s desires, the Emperor’s ship may then return to the planet via superluminous warp travel and await the arrival of the stone, still many weeks (or months) away.

After twiddling away the Emperor’s time and eating the Emperor’s food in the wasteful pursuit of making sure that the Emperor’s enemies do not launch a deflection mission, they may finally watch the ordinance impact the planet (assuming that the Emperor’s ship does not need to attempt any last-minute course correction upon the rock, using yet more of the Emperor’s fuel).

Given a typical (class Bravo-CVII) system, we have the following:
Two months, O&M, Titan class warship: 4.2 Million Imperials
Two months, rations, crew of same: 0.2 MI
Two months, Tech Priest pastor: 1.7 MI
Two months, Servitor parish: 0.3 MI
Paint, Titan class warship: 2.5 MI
Dihydrogen peroxide fuel: 0.9 MI
Total: 9.8 MI

Contrasted with the following:
5 warheads, magna-melta: 2.5 MI
One day, O&M, Titan class warship: 0.3 MI
One day, rations, crew of same: 0.0 MI
Dihydrogen peroxide fuel: 0.1 MI
Total: 2.9 MI

Given the same result with under one third of the cost, the Emperor will have saved a massive amount of His most sacred money and almost a full month of time, during which His warship may be bombarding an entirely different planet.

The Emperor, through this – His Office of Imperial Outlays – hereby orders you to attend one (1) week of therapeutic accountancy training/penance. Please report to Areicon IV, Imperial City, Administratum Building CXXI, Room 1456, where you are to sit in the BLUE chair.

For the Emperor,
Bursarius Tenathis,
Purser Level XI,
Imperial Office of Outlays.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
If that's Peaches then, well, I'm surprised.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
I think we'll definitely get to the end of Book 3. I also wouldn't be surprised if we get even further given that the first episode mentions the OPA stealing stealth tech. Anyone who has read Book 5 knows what that's some early foreshadowing for, especially since the series has said time and time again that the Protogen conspiracy is Earth-based.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
A thirty year time gap? Uhhh... Okay?

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
Any news on the Season 2 soundtrack? I'd really like to get my hands on that piece from when Miller meets Julie.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
Bobbie going nuts on cucumber sandwiches is the best thing because it demonstrates how horrible Martian food must be.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Open Source Idiom posted:

Prose is solid B work. Straightforward, well edited.

I mean, don't expect great literature. The first book -- all I've read -- has that loose, inexpressive style to it that doesn't exactly scream "I'm a novel". Feels more like someone's novelisation of an unmade film script or whatever. But if you can look past that then it's pretty smooth sailing.

TBQH, I think the prose improves measurably even just going from LW to CW.

uber_stoat posted:

I'm glad I saw the first season before I read any of the books just so I could have Shohreh Aghdashloo as my image of Avasarala.

I heard all the lines in her voice anyway. It was quite the moment when they announced that she would actually play Avasarala.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Collateral posted:

Why did they write a time jump then? They must have a completely different ending for the TV show in mind. They are not even up to end of the second book yet. This one has got to end with the opening of the gates. If the plan is for 5 seasons where do they go from there?

I'm going to spoiler the speculation, don't read it if you don't want to know the plot of future books.

Are they going to have earth bombed and the martians through the gates in the first episode, spend half the season killing Marco and saving earth with the martians coming back in their new ships in the latter half? Or something entirely different?

At what point can they end the show satisfactorily?

End of Book 3?

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Tighclops posted:

If I had one major complaint about The Expanse it would be how unremarkable the music has been for the most part. The theme is pretty decent but nothing else has really jumped out at me.

The piece from when Miller meets Julie is really good.

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

I think the order was "write like Bear McCreary, but 15 years ago."

Yeah, it does give me Season 1 Battlestar vibes.

I think the Season 2 soundtrack for Expanse was an improvement but it doesn't seem to be getting a release. Unfortunate.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

AlternateAccount posted:

Can I be a pedant and say that Amos is definitely not a sociopath? He’s got a very strong sense of right and wrong for example. He’s just got a very short flowchart with very few possible outcomes for dealing with things that is what he had to develop to survive.

I hope you can, because I was just about to say that.

I wouldn't call Amos a sociopath. It's more that he is incredibly violent under certain conditions and that he just considers violence a tool -- and a very effective one.

But a key part of Amos' character is that he's aware that he's pretty broken, whether as a result of genetics or his upbringing. He shows some sociopathic tendencies (the superficial charm, seeming lack of genuine affect) but there are many he is precisely the opposite (deception, narcissism, irresponsibility). For example, Amos doesn't lack the capability to feel remorse, but he lacks the capability to express it in a healthy fashion. Likewise, his violence isn't impulsive -- it's a considered response to a threat. When Amos' violence is impulsive, as it gets in Book 7 at points, everyone acknowledges that it's out of character. And it stems from Amos having feelings that he doesn't know how to process, filtering them through the only thing he knows -- which is dog-eat-dog violence.

Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Feb 15, 2018

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
and in decorative wall art and tasteful anecdotes (both by diego)

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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

3 DONG HORSE posted:

Only if Venus keeps that sweet 'do

UN science ship guys squinting at a monitor: what is it doing down there

*cut to a blurry image of glowing blue fireflies and techno-goop, swept over the top of a hill at a particularly rakish angle*

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