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jabby
Oct 27, 2010

Trin Tragula posted:

I have to say it's making my head spin a lot that we started this whole thing with "Support Corbyn for a leader who will actually oppose the Government's evil plans!" and now we're not a million miles away from "Support Corbyn for a leader who recognises that we can't possibly oppose the Government's evil plans!"

This is becoming a really annoying comparison. Supporting Article 50, a single issue the British public voted for after Labour voted to give them a referendum, is not the same as supporting welfare cuts or another of the Tories policies.

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OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Support Corbyn as a leader who actually wants the Labour party to give a poo poo about the welfare of the working class, for which domestic government policy is far more important than Brexit, especially as Brexit is a given and thus the way this and future governments spread the cost of it will be very important.

The point of the Labour party isn't to just do the polar opposite of whatever the government does, it's to do the best it can for the actual worthwhile people of the UK. Which is to say, not the rich cunts.

ShaneMacGowansTeeth
May 22, 2007



I think this is it... I think this is how it ends
I know there's a list of Labour MPs that voted against, but is there a complete list of who voted for and against and whether their constituencies voted leave or remain?

Guavanaut
Nov 27, 2009

Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998



Toilet Rascal

Prince John posted:

Did the Tories use a whip?

ShaneMacGowansTeeth
May 22, 2007



I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

he even looks coked out in his Wiki photo

Pochoclo
Feb 4, 2008

No...
Clapping Larry

jabby posted:

This is becoming a really annoying comparison. Supporting Article 50, a single issue the British public voted for after Labour voted to give them a referendum, is not the same as supporting welfare cuts or another of the Tories policies.

Nah fam, totally, Hard Brexit is just a "single issue the British voted for", no big deal, just gonna wreck your economy to all poo poo and back mate, great stuff innit.

You guys actually voted for your 2001-scale crisis. I don't have the words.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

I miss the happy days of condom cameron and gimpy george

Pissflaps
Oct 20, 2002

by VideoGames

OwlFancier posted:

Support Corbyn as a leader who actually wants the Labour party to give a poo poo about the welfare of the working class, for which domestic government policy is far more important than Brexit, especially as Brexit is a given and thus the way this and future governments spread the cost of it will be very important.

Brexit is a given because Labour is not opposing it.

Corbyn is a joke. He's hosed the Labour party.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Pissflaps posted:

Brexit is a given because Labour is not opposing it.

Completely incorrect, and you are well aware of that.

Ms Adequate
Oct 30, 2011

Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling



Pissflaps posted:

Brexit is a given because Labour is not opposing it.

Corbyn is a joke. He's hosed the Labour party.

Brexit is a loving catastrophe but how would you propose Corbyn or an alternative Lab leader should have acted in the time between the referendum and today, in order to stop it occurring?

Serene Dragon
Mar 31, 2011

Pissflaps posted:

Brexit is a given because Labour is not opposing it.

Corbyn is a joke. He's hosed the Labour party.
I hate that I agree with pissflaps. I really, really, really hate it. But I do. Whipping on this was stupid. By saying he wouldn't oppose it, Corbyn lost all loving leverage he had on putting any sort of brakes on it so now we're getting full on hard rear end-hosed Brexit. This country is hosed and there is no opposition party in Britain anymore. Corbyn just made Labour roll over and die on the literal biggest issue in our lifetimes.

We're all hosed.

Pissflaps
Oct 20, 2002

by VideoGames

OwlFancier posted:

Completely incorrect, and you are well aware of that.

It's entirely correct.



Mister Adequate posted:

Brexit is a loving catastrophe but how would you propose Corbyn or an alternative Lab leader should have acted in the time between the referendum and today, in order to stop it occurring?

Built up a persuasive case against Brexit using all the evidence and events since - focussing most recently on the need for stability in the face of an increasingly alarming situation in America - then held a three line whip against tonight's bill, bringing rebel Tories on-side to defeat it.

And you know what? Even if it had failed it would still have acted as some sort of brake on us careering towards the hardest of possible Brexits. Because there would have been opposition to it.

baka kaba
Jul 19, 2003

PLEASE ASK ME, THE SELF-PROFESSED NO #1 PAUL CATTERMOLE FAN IN THE SOMETHING AWFUL S-CLUB 7 MEGATHREAD, TO NAME A SINGLE SONG BY HIS EXCELLENT NU-METAL SIDE PROJECT, SKUA, AND IF I CAN'T PLEASE TELL ME TO
EAT SHIT

TinTower posted:

Only one Tory rebel: Ken Clarke.

Yeah I was going to say, doesn't bode well for Remain-soft-brexit Tories defying the government and voting for the amendments they all want. They could push brexit down a different and more accountable path if they did, so I guess we'll see if any more of them break ranks

spectralent posted:

Yeah, but a three line whip over a symbolic measure? That's insane. Corbyn's lost a lot of trust I'd had in him over this.

Well yeah, it is symbolic - that's sort of the whole point. Labour's choosing to take a strong official line, a decisive consistent stance, to try and position themselves better for what's coming up. A free vote goes against that, it's almost like officially abstaining. When there's a game plan like this (whatever it's worth) I don't really see what's weird about whipping on it

All the talk and the responses to the resignations seem to be pretty amiable, like there aren't exactly any bridges being burned - and symbolically, any Labour MP who wants to vote No has to openly rebel against the official line, as an individual.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

Labour doesn't have leverage.

Parliamentary minorities, outside of specific cases of lax cohesion in the ruling party, do not have any power in the UK government.

The UK opposition does not function. The only thing it can do is entirely extraparliamentary and threaten to depose the government in subsequent elections.

To which its conduct in parliament is entirely a matter of positioning, positioning in favor of things like welfare, employment rights, civil equality, wealth redistribution, positive rights to health, wealth, and happiness, are all entirely sensible and morally imperative. But positioning in opposition to the concept of a thing that is going to happen at the expense of doing their sole possible function of utlility within parliament, which is to say proposing sensible amendments to government policy, does not make sense.

Pissflaps
Oct 20, 2002

by VideoGames
Labour could have generated leverage by effectively opposing Brexit - both inside and outside Parliament. The process is not going well. May is an idiot. This should have been exploited.

Instead it's been squandered and leaves Labour literally supporting the Tories on the most important political issue of the last fifty years.

It will do to Labour in the UK what the independence referendum did to them in Scotland.

Pissflaps fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Feb 1, 2017

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

I've been saying for months now that anti-Brexit sentiment has to come from taking the popular mandate from pro-Brexit to anti, i.e. mass and sustained protest or more serious action. Since that hasn't appeared Labour seem to be doing their best given their resources and position as representatives of the British people.

Pissflaps
Oct 20, 2002

by VideoGames
https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/826913643023495168

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

If only Owen Smith had won. He's the man we need

Pissflaps
Oct 20, 2002

by VideoGames

Namtab posted:

If only Owen Smith had won. He's the man we need

Do we know how he voted tonight?

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

He would have used his sixty foot willy to beat May to death without leaving the labour benches.

ShaneMacGowansTeeth
May 22, 2007



I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

Pissflaps posted:

Do we know how he voted tonight?

against the bill, one of the 47

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

I'm a single issue guy and I would never vote for the viagra salesman

Pissflaps
Oct 20, 2002

by VideoGames

OwlFancier posted:

He would have used his sixty foot willy to beat May to death without leaving the labour benches.

ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:

against the bill, one of the 47

An interesting contrast.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

A choice between tories selling the NHS to the US out of stupidity and Smith selling it to whoever will pay him the most out of greed would be an interesting if depressing one.

ShaneMacGowansTeeth
May 22, 2007



I think this is it... I think this is how it ends

Pissflaps posted:

An interesting contrast.

you asked how he voted, I replied. Not really difficult is it?

Pissflaps
Oct 20, 2002

by VideoGames

OwlFancier posted:

A choice between tories selling the NHS to the US out of stupidity and Smith selling it to whoever will pay him the most out of greed would be an interesting if depressing one.

Owen Smith lost the leadership election i'm not sure why you're still pretending he's some sort of political boogeyman. He's irrelevant.

ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:

you asked how he voted, I replied. Not really difficult is it?

The contrast I found interesting was between the hyperbole and reality.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

The idea being if he had not. Use your brain, flaps.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

On the other hand I want to worship every inch of his cock before he uses it as a battering ram to decimate the government

Pissflaps
Oct 20, 2002

by VideoGames

OwlFancier posted:

The idea being if he had not. Use your brain, flaps.

Sorry my brain is too busy mulling over the majestic nuance of Corbyn supporting the Tories on Brexit and you thinking this is a good idea.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

If only borbyn had a 60 meter cock

communism bitch
Apr 24, 2009

OwlFancier posted:

I miss the happy days of pigfucker cameron and coked-out titperving gideon

Extreme0
Feb 28, 2013

I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!


I hope a Wall is built around the border of Scotland & England so that once Climate Change happens that all the English Refugees drown. That will teach them because we are full and we don't need more White people coming into our country.

Pissflaps
Oct 20, 2002

by VideoGames

Extreme0 posted:

I hope a Wall is built around the border of Scotland & England so that once Climate Change happens that all the English Refugees drown. That will teach them because we are full and we don't need more White people coming into our country.

I can't visualise how this would work.

Extreme0
Feb 28, 2013

I dance to the sweet tune of your failure so I'm never gonna stop fucking with you.

Continue to get confused and frustrated with me as I dance to your anger.

As I expect nothing more from ya you stupid runt!


Pissflaps posted:

I can't visualise how this would work.

You wouldn't be able to because we would be all dead by then.

communism bitch
Apr 24, 2009
I wish i was dead already!!

ShaneMacGowansTeeth
May 22, 2007



I think this is it... I think this is how it ends


Pissflaps
Oct 20, 2002

by VideoGames

Oberleutnant posted:

I wish i was dead already!!

How about you cheer up us - and yourself - by transcribing a really long old rear end letter?

namesake
Jun 19, 2006

"When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

Deare Lord Ashlington,

It is under sincere destress that I must inform youe of the events that have occurred at this place over the past twelve monthes...

communism bitch
Apr 24, 2009

Pissflaps posted:

How about you cheer up us - and yourself - by transcribing a really long old rear end letter?
That would cheer me up but i'm not at work now. And that's a real shame because I've got some fascinating front line letters from the Boer War just now

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Pochoclo
Feb 4, 2008

No...
Clapping Larry

Extreme0 posted:

I hope a Wall is built around the border of Scotland & England so that once Climate Change happens that all the English Refugees drown. That will teach them because we are full and we don't need more White people coming into our country.

Och aye! Make Hadrian's Wall Great Again!
I do love Scotland and have seriously considered moving to Aberdeen.

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