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OwlFancier posted:I know why the difference exists, that doesn't make it less significant. It's significant and he has more options than most, but trying to claim he isn't working class is harmful
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Feb 27, 2017 23:33
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Spangly A posted:ehh, if we're going to make class distinctions beyond worker/capitalist, which I agree has been an obvious reality for several decades, then having a relatively large financial asset which can in emergency be liquidated is definitely one of those distinctions into a middle/lil'bourgie class. What will win out, my identification as working class or my desire to stop giving out half my wage every month...
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Feb 27, 2017 23:37
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OwlFancier posted:I think at the point that you can earn enough in a year for you to comfortably live on for five, you might not functionally be quite as working class as someone who lives paycheck to paycheck. I still dont begrudge a worker his wages. All workers should be paid an amount where they can live comfortably.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:39
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The example that always springs to my mind when this topic comes up is the fact that people try and use the fact that tube drivers get more money than me, a nurse, to try and get me and my peers to agitate against their strikes for better pay and conditions.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:41
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OwlFancier posted:Yes I agree, but that doesn't invalidate the point that earning enough money to catapult you with ease into landlording status does, by any reasonable class analysis, kind of put you not-quite-in the working class any more. If he becomes one of the landlord class then I promise you I will hold him in abject contempt as is good and proper.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:43
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cargohills posted:sure but is a manager or something on six figures who happens to rent instead of buy just another worker? I suspect on that salary he isn't labouring, so no.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:44
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The answer to the higher paid worker isn't "he should be paid less", it's that everyone else should be paid more.
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Feb 27, 2017 23:46
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What's false consciousness, I feel like this might be false consciousness
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Feb 27, 2017 23:51
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namesake posted:It's like when you've sat on your hand for a few minutes and you can't feel or move it but instead of your hand it's your actual position in society. Ah, the stranger
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Feb 27, 2017 23:56
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LemonDrizzle posted:i think that as long as you render unto caesar and abide by the law, what you do with your hard earned is your business and nobody else's. or, to paraphrase a great sage of our times, "we [should be] intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich as long as they pay their taxes" Does Blair pay his taxes, I don't think he pays his taxes
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Feb 28, 2017 00:44
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Imagine the petit bourgeois as one of those little fish that latch onto the mighty shark of the proletariat, and the bourgeois as vampires
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Feb 28, 2017 00:46
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OwlFancier posted:I think that if your money could liberate five other people from grinding poverty you should probably do that rather than spend it on rare SNES carts. hosed up if true
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Feb 28, 2017 00:47
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Owl my boy I think that workers who earn more should be allowed to enjoy some of it.
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Feb 28, 2017 00:48
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If it's any consolation I definitely also feel jealous. That's how capitalism keeps us squabbling.
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Feb 28, 2017 00:54
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I'm not going to fight over the size of our scraps while the lords feast
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Feb 28, 2017 01:02
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OwlFancier posted:I mean maybe morale might also be improved if you had five people free of the worst extremes of poverty rather than one person with some lovely pictures of their skiing lodge in the alps. I guess the argument here is how far do you expect the better paid worker to go. charity is a good thing if you're earning more than you need, but expecting a person to live in guilt and forego all pleasure isn't good and seems like it'd be an unhealthy way to live
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Feb 28, 2017 01:22
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TomViolence posted:I don't particularly believe in privileging either the collective over the individual or the individual over the collective. Any vision of socialism I'd want to be a part of has the two working in harmony. A human politics built on solidarity, not a dystopian machine crushing all before it. Nah I think we should live as the human hive
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Feb 28, 2017 01:23
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OwlFancier posted:I find it difficult to see communism as anything other than a rejection of the idea that any amount of individual wellbeing can make up for the suffering of the collective. The thing about communism is that it isn't capitalism, and each person will be given what they need. The other thing is that we don't live in a communist system. I have a about £100 left over each month after rent, bills and basic leisure spending. Am I inherently immoral if I spend this on myself? E: quote:And again, you don't need to feel guilty about it, there is an option between feeling guilty and trying to argue that actually your actions are good. You can just... know what you should be doing without turning into some kind of weird flagellant. Namtab fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 01:26
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Guavanaut posted:Give a man a fishing trawler and he can't look after it on his own. Give a couple dozen men a trawler in collective ownership and they can all feed themselves forever and also have a few hours off because angling is pretty inefficient in comparison. These metaphors are out of control
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Feb 28, 2017 01:31
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Far age is king of ukip and his supporters want him knighted E: omg it's because he thinks carswell stopped him getting knighted Namtab fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Feb 28, 2017 |
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Feb 28, 2017 01:42
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