|
jBrereton posted:BoJo would probably be a more capable voice for the Labour Party than Corbyn, but no, Labour needs its own guy, or girl. Where is even Labour's Mhairi Black? I'm sure Wes Streeting thinks that's him, but it ain't. Well, a lot were put off by the Iraq War. And at New Labour taking the votes of the working class for granted while running away after Middle England. Which is ultimately at the root of Labour's decline in the North and goes deeper than simply Brexit. Of course, Corbyn has done nothing to reverse that, which is on his hands. TheRat posted:I think a seat lost wasn't safe by definition. Good to know.
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2017 15:06
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 12, 2024 03:51 |
|
|
jBrereton posted:That may as well be Suez at this point for people in their twenties. Yeah OK it was sad or whatever right but the last Labour government that was in charge of it was 7 years ago. Early twenties, maybe. For someone born in 1990 it'll be one of the first political events they remember, and was a formative experience for an awful lot of people who are still young in political terms (which is to say under 35). Even if you were 5 at the time of the invasion and all the protests, you were old enough to experience a lot of the gory consequences of the war, there's not a tiny chance you knew someone who served over there in the 8 years our forces were over there. Also "it was sad or whatever" loving hell.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2017 15:19
|
|
|
Comrade Cheggorsky posted:what you have said is all valid but there isnt actually much evidence to suggest that the invasion of Iraq resulted in disillusioned young peoples turning away from politics or whatever http://blogs.nottingham.ac.uk/politics/2013/02/18/the-invasion-of-iraq-did-many-things-putting-young-people-off-politics-wasnt-one-of-them/ That's an interesting study but I didn't actually say it turned da yoof off politics. I said it turned young people off Labour who may have gone on to be active members and MPs. Like Mhairi Black for instance.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2017 15:31
|
|
|
jBrereton posted:The SNP does not have less media support than Labour in Scotland, which is where it matters. But yes Labour can and should pull itself together. What guff is this? The SNP has the support of The National and The Sunday Herald and some assortment of websites like Wings Over Scotland. Meanwhile Labour has The Daily Record, whose circulation is over 10 times that of The National, the Daily Mirror. Without getting into other papers like The Scotsman and Press & Journal which are not necessarily pro-Labour but certainly are anti-SNP.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2017 15:35
|
|
|
Hallucinogenic Toreador posted:Supposedly this is based on the average child receiving £131,832.94 over 25 years, or £5273.32 a year. That (according to HSBC) includes earning an average of £14,457.12 by age 25. Given that the median household income for two adults is £23,556 it has to be total bollocks. This is really funny. I dunno, I got pocket money from maybe the age of 5 or 6 but for the first few years you're talking 50p in exchange for basic chores. By the time I was a teen it was possibly £10 a week. I can't see it amounting to much. Wish I was getting £5k a year but somehow can't see it being affordable.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 24, 2017 23:02
|
|
|
Not So Fast posted:Corbynism cannot fail, it can only be failed, comrades. Could you enlighten us to what ideas are there that make Corbynism a thing? Corbyn the man certainly can fail. I suspect he's done quite long term damage to the left in this country. I'd have said at least partly because he's failed to have a coherent program, among other things (rubbish pr, MPs refusing to work with him from the word go, complete muddle on Brexit) but apparently not? Interested to know what it is.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 25, 2017 00:37
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:Someone beat you. My dad was in the ROC until it was stood down in the early '90s. Even got to go to Buckingham Palace for some afternoon tea party, which I'd totally forgotten happened until you posted that map. I've no idea why he got involved, I think it was just an excuse to hang out with his friends. But there's something reassuring about the idea that at least some of the people in the ROC were totally chill stoners. jabby posted:Saying Corbyn has damaged the left is a bit extreme considering prior to his leadership the left consisted entirely of him, John McDonnell, and the Green party. It was the left's first chance at the leadership of a major party since Michael Foot, which was before I was born. And they dropped the ball. They have done a piss poor job of standing out, apart from on Trident. And that's an unpopular policy. It could quite easily be another 30 years until we get another sniff. That's damaging.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 25, 2017 01:18
|
|
|
Pissflaps posted:He's as productive in three days as he would be in five apparently. We should all get paid well enough to only need a 3 day week.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 25, 2017 02:29
|
|
|
Gonzo McFee posted:You're really bad at this. Still getting responses though. A low bar in the thread that has spent years having the same arguments with the Flapster but none the less.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 25, 2017 18:12
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:Perez is a bland centrist? Everything I heard was that he's one of the Dems' best-reputed guys on labour, and separated by very little from Ellison, politics-wise - as evidenced by the fact that he immediately made Ellison his deputy (which may work out better anyway, since as a sitting senator, Ellison may not have been able to give the post his full attention). If there wasn't much between them then why on earth did Perez get into the contest? And why did the entire centrist apparatus (minus Schumer, since a liberal will usually mention his support of Ellison as a sick gotcha) come out behind him? https://theintercept.com/2017/02/22/dnc-chair-candidate-tom-perezs-bank-friendly-record-could-kneecap-the-democratic-party/ is also a good read on his record which is less than stellar from a left perspective.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 26, 2017 00:51
|
|
|
Darth Walrus posted:The Intercept is a... spotty source (Glenn Greenwald is going pretty hard down the tankie route these days), and that article lists two incidents without a serious dig into the hows and whys around them, inviting the reader to imagine the worst possible interpretation with little corroborating evidence to back it up (while grudgingly acknowledging that Perez was a very solid labour secretary). Not enough on its own to crucify him over. That is such a painfully bad analogy. As pointed out, Tom Perez is certainly not even vaguely comparable to John McDonnell. Try "Labour membership try to make Clive Lewis, the PLP suggest Owen Smith." And if we're counting ethnicity as a bonus (which is dumb) then how is a Latino better than a black muslim? Ultimately, Keith Ellison isn't even all that left wing, but he was the favourite choice of the Sanders wing. Rather than throwing them a bone they just shat on them. Understandable when you look at the people who can vote for the DNC but hardly likely to lead to party unity, is it? As for Glenn Greenwald being a tankie, man, that's some loose definition of a tankie. His points on the DNC hacks are pretty fair, no idea what he's said about Syria so can't comment. A former chief of staff to a President of the USA clicked a phishing link as if he was your 80 year old granny. And this is meant to be the man running a secret child abuse ring based around a pizza shop (what a silly conspiracy that was) Cerv posted:Language shifts over time. The population of the UK at large don't subscribe to the same strict Marxian definition of 'working class' that the most posters in this thread do. It's an entirely useless definition of class and it's right to challenge it.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 26, 2017 12:06
|
|
|
HJB posted:I'm imagining UKIP having 90 seats and smacking my lips. It's a good record but I prefer their first two albums.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 26, 2017 13:01
|
|
|
jabby posted:Because if you can't get the correct answer to the question you want (should Labour oppose leaving) twist the question until you get a different answer and claim it means the same thing. This is absurd. I get wanting to defend Corbyn but show some rational thought. His stance on Brexit is absolute poison with the people who actually vote Labour, & the people who don't simply don't believe him.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 26, 2017 14:40
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 12, 2024 03:51 |
|
|
Baron Corbyn posted:if Labour find a way to lose Manchester Gorton, it won't be to the government... I'll be so bummed if the Liberals beat the Greens into 2nd place. Honestly, I'd be quite OK with the Greens winning the seat. It'd be funny, but it'd also put a left-wing MP in Parliament while also giving Corbyn a defeat in an ultra-safe Labour seat that he surely couldn't come back from. The last time Labour got under 50% there was at a 1967 by-election. Last time they lost the seat was in the great collapse of '31.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 27, 2017 11:01
|
|