|
At the end of the day this looks like another of Matrix Games' projects where their ambitions overstepped their abilities. It's notably better than FF3DS (and also probably an improvement on 4HOL), but at the same time you can tell they ran out of steam somewhere in Chapters 4 or 5. After that point the bosses are just a long list of remixes desperately trying to prop up a crumbling edifice of mechanics, since you're at the point where you have maximum ability to break the action economy over your knee. Really, the fact that you can skip random encounters, and that the player base recommends it after Chapter 4, is a glaring symptom of this. If people actively try to avoid engaging with the mechanics beyond degenerate strategies, that's a sign that you need to pace those mechanics better so that players just about reach that point at the final boss. (Superbosses are fine for exceeding that, being optional content.)
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 23:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 12:01 |
|
|
I have a complicated relationship with this game. It modernizes Final Fantasy 5's job and combat formula and polishes it to a mirror sheen. It's got beautiful backdrops and an excellent soundtrack. Even though the plot's a contrived mess made from the characters' inability to just talk to each other, there's lots of other things to enjoy. I 100% recommend this game up through completing the first world. And as soon as you move onto the second world, it all goes to hell. You stop going to new places, fighting new monsters, meeting new characters, and getting new jobs. The characters' inability to talk to each other keeps getting stupider until it breaks all immersion. They could have easily compressed all the worlds down into 3 worlds and focused on making those more distinct, but they didn't. It's disappointing that this is the best a second edition of the game could do. They were given the time and money to give it another pass, and even with that, it still feels repetitive, rushed, and disjointed. Games like this are frustrating. It was so close to being wonderful, and then the second half of it collapses. Thanks for exploring it in depth, Greyarc. It takes a long time to do that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 1, 2019 23:47
|
|
|
I do suppose that my abject refusal to use Spiritmaster or Salve Maker in any way strongly contributed to my persistent enjoyment of the game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 00:18
|
|
|
So I had been meaning to play this game for a good while, and seeing this lp got me to actually grab a copy of this game. I binged it in like 2 months and I loved the game all the way up until the ouroboros fight, where I had maxed out all the jobs and had the game bent over my knee at that point, so it was mostly perfeunctory at that point. The gameplay is really, genuinely satisfying, though it weirdly didn't lend itself to replayability for me b/c I felt like I had more-or-less figured out the game and the jobs I didn't use I either did not find that interesting (looking at you conjurer) or were too cumbersome for me to want to play around with (grinding money for the merchant, though I probably could've used it from chapter 5 onward once upgrading equipment became much less of a priority). But I had issues with the plot not unlike what greyarc brought up. The game felt at odds with itself, and while I didn't really think about the in-universe logistics of all this dimension hopping and honestly don't care to, but the thematic issues still leave a bad taste in my mouth. I get it, you got to default four times and brave at the end, that's cute. But you can't have a game with a recurring theme about having the courage to push against the consensus and think for yourself, only to have the true ending require the characters to basically give up agency and let a big bad thing happen. poo poo's wack. Bravely Second's story is thankfully a lot tighter on the story front and also improves on everything else, with only the new music being sadly underwhelming. Play Bravely Second friends.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 00:59
|
|
|
NGDBSS posted:Really, the fact that you can skip random encounters, and that the player base recommends it after Chapter 4, is a glaring symptom of this. If people actively try to avoid engaging with the mechanics beyond degenerate strategies, that's a sign that you need to pace those mechanics better so that players just about reach that point at the final boss. (Superbosses are fine for exceeding that, being optional content.) Yeah, that's something I'm kinda torn on. If you have the ability to turn off random encounters and people praise it, isn't that a sign that maybe it's time to move on to a different form of encountering enemies? Mizuti posted:I have a complicated relationship with this game. It modernizes Final Fantasy 5's job and combat formula and polishes it to a mirror sheen. It's got beautiful backdrops and an excellent soundtrack. Even though the plot's a contrived mess made from the characters' inability to just talk to each other, there's lots of other things to enjoy. I 100% recommend this game up through completing the first world. I feel like Bravely Second does a lot of what this game was trying to do so much better, to be honest.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 01:00
|
|
|
Rent-a-Bot posted:So I had been meaning to play this game for a good while, and seeing this lp got me to actually grab a copy of this game. I started the same way but couldn’t get past Chapter...5? One of the repeating ones but after the shape of the plot is very clear to everyone not a protagonist.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 01:42
|
|
|
Farewell Bravely Default, the one game in my entire life I couldn't bring myself to finish and just sold off.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 04:03
|
|
|
Not to tell you how to run your own LP, Greyarc, but you missed out on Ouroboros' neat gimmick in his final phase. He has an attack called Divergence which locks down all of a character's moves except for Default and Summon Friend. So it forces you to use the power of friendship from other worlds (in case the scene with the alternate earths saving themselves from destruction to help you fight on wasn't hitting you over the head with the message hard enough) if you want to attack. And I thought that was super cool on my first run (and count me among the others who never saw the camera showing the "Celestial Realm" due to playing in the dark).
TwoPair fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Feb 2, 2019 |
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 08:06
|
|
|
I hope you plan on adding this to the LP Archive since it's exhaustive and very informative about the goods and the bads of the game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 11:41
|
|
|
For those who never bothered much with links to music (like me), I want to share the video that got me hooked to this game's soundtrack. It speaks volumes about this game that someone playing under 5 minutes of various tracks and talking about the way they get used got me to spend hours upon hours listening to the OST of a game I didn't even play. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COgzJey4EAc&t=2s It's a shame the game dropped so many of the balls it was trying to juggle, the core ideas are super strong and I hold a lot of respect for ambitious premises. If getting the true end wasn't so long and repetitive it made Greyarc bury the game afterwards then I'd put it on the backlog. Maybe I'll try Bravely Second? It is particularly interesting to me because a lot of this game's issues are comparable to those of Yoko Taro's games. I think the biggest difference is that the plot in YT games is just a vehicle for the character's growth, while BD focuses much more on following the plot that makes less sense as the game goes on. The other big difference is that YT has a career's worth of experience making the repetition in his games a thematic element, often playing it up for humor or actively trolling the player.
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 21:37
|
|
|
It can’t be said enough: Bravely Second improves on Default in many ways, though it’s much sillier and lighthearted tone may be a bit of a turnoff.
|
|
|
#
?
Feb 2, 2019 23:02
|
|
|
Hey uh gently caress you game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 00:00
|
|
|
It seriously cannot be understated how good the moment Tiz's theme starts playing in the final battle is.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 00:01
|
|
|
I’m still planning to do a write-up soon, but let me answer some stuff first: Akratic Method posted:Anyway, thanks for taking this journey so I didn't have to. Glad you didn't get your house invaded by a cross-dimensional hell dragon in the process. NGDBSS posted:I'm curious on your thoughts of this versus Chaos Rings, another independently made Square-Enix game with a similar plot of "stop the thing that wants to destroy all dimensions". In particular I remember CR hinting at the true nature of things a lot earlier and integrating the cooperation between dimensions into gameplay rather than just a cutscene out of nowhere. ZeButler posted:However, since you have now teased us with cat pictures, I'm going to have to demand seeing the cat's face when it's not filtered by the game.  DGM_2 posted:I'm not sure that explains it. If Airy had to wait 5000 years for a shattered crystal to regenerate even once - and the fact that she knows exactly how long it takes suggests that she has - the party should be long dead of old age by the time she gets to the next world. She would never catch up to them in the timeline again. AriadneThread posted:yeah the story is mess but i thought the gimmicks at the end there were cute Also, yeah, am free  DeafNote posted:I can understand where all the negativity comes from, but I dont regret getting and playing this game for even a second. Natural 20 posted:So I love Bravely Default, like "I played this game to completion 3 times" love. Mizuti posted:Games like this are frustrating. It was so close to being wonderful, and then the second half of it collapses. Thanks for exploring it in depth, Greyarc. It takes a long time to do that.   TwoPair posted:Not to tell you how to run your own LP, Greyarc, but you missed out on Ouroboros' neat gimmick in his final phase. Lord Zedd-Repulsa posted:I hope you plan on adding this to the LP Archive since it's exhaustive and very informative about the goods and the bads of the game.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 06:19
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:Not to tell you how to run your own LP, Greyarc, but you missed out on Ouroboros' neat gimmick in his final phase. He has an attack called Divergence which locks down all of a character's moves except for Default and Summon Friend. So it forces you to use the power of friendship from other worlds (in case the scene with the alternate earths saving themselves from destruction to help you fight on wasn't hitting you over the head with the message hard enough) if you want to attack. Welp. I never saw that phase. That's pretty neat.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 08:31
|
|
|
TwoPair posted:Not to tell you how to run your own LP, Greyarc, but you missed out on Ouroboros' neat gimmick in his final phase. He has an attack called Divergence which locks down all of a character's moves except for Default and Summon Friend. So it forces you to use the power of friendship from other worlds (in case the scene with the alternate earths saving themselves from destruction to help you fight on wasn't hitting you over the head with the message hard enough) if you want to attack. And I thought that was super cool on my first run (and count me among the others who never saw the camera showing the "Celestial Realm" due to playing in the dark). This part might seems cool, but keep in mind that you can only use each attack from a friend once. That means that if you don't use the online feature, you'd end up only being able to attack 4 times and having to default for a long time. Not to mention that the attacks from Friend Bot etc are very poo poo. Another idea that was cool in concept but with flawed execution, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 09:52
|
|
|
Greyarc posted:Good point, but in any case, like most plots, the whole plan falls apart if it’s no longer constrained in some way by linear time. It’s so easy for time travel to wreck a story if it’s done without care, so having them tack on stuff like that in the ending just makes the whole thing ridiculous. Yeah, but people will forgive that if the story is otherwise good enough. People loved Back to the Future, and those movies had plot holes they could (and did) drive a Delorean through.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 10:42
|
|
|
1234567890num posted:This part might seems cool, but keep in mind that you can only use each attack from a friend once. That means that if you don't use the online feature, you'd end up only being able to attack 4 times and having to default for a long time. Not to mention that the attacks from Friend Bot etc are very poo poo. Eh, it's not a move he uses often and he can only lock at most 2 party members at a time, so you likely won't notice. Also you don't have to rely on Friend-bot if you just have some friends (by which I mean finding a BD thread on a friendly forum of choice and copying a ton of friend codes off their Google doc, thereby cutting the problems of the streetpass aspect completely out of the equation!  )
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 15:34
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure you've got to have a drippingly evil final boss no matter how ambiguous of an RPG you are. How else will people know they're at the end?
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 16:12
|
|
|
The end boss of Final Fantasy X wasn't drippingly evil. He was just a guy who was locked in a cycle of summoning an absurdly powerful Aeon that was used to promote a bunch of evil people's propaganda.
|
|
#
?
Feb 3, 2019 20:34
|
|
|
FF9's main villain had relatively complex motivations but the actual final boss is infamous for coming absolutely out of nowhere and just trying to kill everything forever
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 05:51
|
|
|
The end-boss of IX is just Cloud of Darkness without breasts.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 06:06
|
|
|
That is a good cat.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 06:54
|
|
|
Here's a post-game commentary to wrap this up: Thanks to all of you who read and commented on my first LP! It was a big project, but part of what kept me going was that I always looked forward to hearing how you guys would respond to the game’s next big plot point. Here’s to you guys.  Props also go to the people who’ve dug up Bravely Default info on GameFaqs and the Final Fantasy wiki, especially Sailor_Nemesis, who was able to put together a comprehensive list of the game’s event viewer scenes which I used as a main point of reference. Their documentation was invaluable.As I’ve said other places, my goal with the Bravely Default LP was to show off a game’s storytelling in a way which would highlight not only where the it failed but where it succeeded. This LP was also done as a way to test my skills in both a personal and professional context. I’m tentatively willing to say the project was a success on all counts, though I know my commentary and editing was far from perfect. It was especially difficult to find a balance between showing the weakest, most repetitive points of the game and keeping the LP entertaining to read. Although earlier on I was open to following up with an LP of Bravely Second, the sequel, I have no plans nor time to do so at the moment. If anyone else wants to go ahead, you’ve got my blessing. I deliberately left out the teaser movie so whoever does the sequel can have a fresh go at showing that off. Doing a completionist LP was even more time-consuming than I thought, so although I’d like to do more LPs someday, I may go about it in a different way, at least unless I find a game I'm as interested in dissecting as Bravely Default. I’m planning to get this on the Archive so it’ll be up for the public. I joined SA because of the Archive, so I’m excited to finally add my own project. Again, thanks to those of you who read through the whole thing. I really appreciate it. ZeButler posted:That is a good cat.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 07:16
|
|
|
You did good Greyarc. Thank you for taking the time to properly show this game off.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 07:20
|
|
|
I don't remember if it was said, but the game came with some AR Cards. The one for Tiz basically spoils that he dies at the start and ends with the player/Celestial going into his body to revive him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVGc5MyAYnc It starts at about the 5 minute mark. Anyway, thanks for the LP! Good luck with your next project!
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 07:22
|
|
|
So did the special movie get shown yet? Or would that be too closely connected to Bravely Second?Pureauthor posted:FF9's main villain had relatively complex motivations but the actual final boss is infamous for coming absolutely out of nowhere and just trying to kill everything forever Even then he was less 'evil for the sake of evil' and more 'hey you destroyed the crystal, that means the meaning of life is death and everyone gets to have fun with that!'
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 12:39
|
|
|
DeafNote posted:So did the special movie get shown yet? Or would that be too closely connected to Bravely Second? Greyarc posted:Although earlier on I was open to following up with an LP of Bravely Second, the sequel, I have no plans nor time to do so at the moment. If anyone else wants to go ahead, you’ve got my blessing. I deliberately left out the teaser movie so whoever does the sequel can have a fresh go at showing that off.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 14:21
|
|
|
I didn't realize this thread had been going for two years. That's quite an effort! Thanks for showing this one off.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 16:43
|
|
|
This was ridiculously comprehensive, especially for a first LP. You did a fantastic job, Greyarc!
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 21:47
|
|
|
Thank you so much for this LP. I think you did a great job with it and I definitely saw/learned some new things about the game. I'm glad this game got such a comprehensive LP.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2019 22:41
|
|
|
for the LP. I kinda stopped posting much after I ran out of name puns to post, but I've been enjoying people's analysis and comments. For my part, I enjoyed the game - mostly because I don't usually analyze a game when I play it myself. Go with the flow, take the story points as they come, and ignore the plotholes - you don't need to be quite as annoyed that way. Still though, years after playing the game, it's neat to both see the plot laid bare in a slower format and to see other people pick apart the weird bits of it. That is an adorable fluffy little bastard. 
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2019 02:31
|
|
|
Greyarc posted:
i assume the combat system must be really good, because i seriously have no other idea why this game gets praise. i figured as this lp went on, something would happen to redeem its deeply, deeply lovely parts. and nothing does. it's just bad. despite all of its machinations and hoops to jump through to get the true ending, the story has no deep message to share. friendship is good. its most enduring message, its final message, is that sexual assault should be tolerated so long as the person also does good things sometimes. gently caress bravely default.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2019 03:44
|
|
......*squeeeeze*
|
hey girl you up posted:i assume the combat system must be really good, It is. So, uh, there's that.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2019 05:20
|
|
|
Thanks for the lp!
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2019 06:46
|
|
|
Dallbun posted:It is. So, uh, there's that. The music is good too. And some of the 4th wall breaks are memorable.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2019 22:35
|
|
|
found a leaked photo from the next game
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2019 08:09
|
|
|
Thanks for taking the time to play through this! I really enjoyed your commentary and all the work you put in. I was interested in this game when it first came out, but I hate the slog of JRPG battles and job systems so I never got around to playing it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2019 08:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 20, 2024 12:01 |
|
|
...And this LP is now up on LPArchive: https://lparchive.org/Bravely-Default So it's time to shut this thread down for good. Thanks again to all who read and participated!
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2019 21:22
|
|