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When will you be answering the rules questions in the faction thread(s)?
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Feb 9, 2017 21:13
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 03:35 |
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I'm in as a reserve for the Entente, because I discovered and decided to read that thread first.
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Feb 9, 2017 21:34
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Both sides have a full Order of Battle. THIS THREAD IS NOW FOR NON-PLAYING OBSERVERS ONLY. IT IS OUT OF BOUNDS TO ACTIVE PLAYERS AND STAFF OFFICERS UNTIL THE END OF THE BATTLE. IF YOU WANT TO JOIN ONE THREAD AS A NON-PLAYING STAFF OFFICER, YOU MAY STILL DO SO, BUT YOU MUST NOT READ ANY FURTHER THAN THIS POST, OR YOU WILL KNOW THINGS YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO KNOW Comments about map design and starting positions to follow! 
Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Feb 9, 2017 |
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Feb 9, 2017 22:47
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Sorry if I'm a dumb and this was mentioned, but it is this the observer thread 
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Feb 9, 2017 22:49
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Tias posted:Sorry if I'm a dumb and this was mentioned, but it is this the observer thread Yes.
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Feb 9, 2017 22:58
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Hey Trin, could you please put links to the team threads in the OP?
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Feb 9, 2017 23:10
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Done. Right then. I hope this doesn't seem like slagging Grey off, but a lot of the things about this map are based on things that didn't go so well first time round. Both sides deployed right up in each other's face, hell ensued. Practically, there was no chance of having any minor events to help people get to grips with the rules and gameplay; the fighting was underway almost immediately. Then people got tangled up with the river, and then the battle in general suffered badly from having no clear objectives for either side. So I've done something about that. No river, and each team has been given orders to guide them in a certain direction. All the units begin off-board and have to march on; this is going to be one hell of a meeting engagement. I've also made the extremely mean and sneaky decision to have both teams enter from the right-hand side of the map. This will hopefully cause people to assume that since we're in one corner, the other team must be in the opposite corner. And having done that, of course I'm going to give both teams an objective on the opposite corner of the map so they're guaranteed to run into each other. Tee hee. After reading the French thread and the German Roll20, here's a summary of what they both intend to do at this early stage of planning:   Also, have a fully-named copy of the map.  edit: vvv yeah, that's just me knocking something together in 30 seconds with Paint vvv Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 9, 2017 23:40
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I might recommend changing the color or style of summary arrows so that, e.g., the German one doesn't match the roads quite so well.
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Feb 9, 2017 23:44
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Trin, You magnificent bastard.
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Feb 9, 2017 23:59
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:I might recommend changing the color or style of summary arrows so that, e.g., the German one doesn't match the roads quite so well. Agreed, I thought he forgot to put the German command's suggested route on the thing for a minute.
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Feb 10, 2017 00:02
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Had fun as a Division commander last time but I'll sit this one out in the peanut gallery Will be interesting to see how it plays out differently from last time. Really digging the idea of runners, should lead to entertaining hijinks. Trin - are you going to go over any of the battle mechanics in the player threads? It kind of went overboard towards the end of the last thread, but some stuff like general movement/firing ranges, 'no indirect fire in 1914', 'French 75s don't have to set up to fire', 'cavalry have increased vision' are useful to know so that folks can incorporate those facts in their orders. edit - nvm, saw the first of the rules post Terrifying Effigies fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 01:11
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*snip* Fixed Ceebees fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 02:02
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Patrick Spens posted:Trin, You magnificent bastard. Baguette is gonna get so hosed. Poor town has no idea what's about to happen, they all thought the clusterfuck would happen over in Saint Croissant. And so does everyone else.
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Feb 10, 2017 04:18
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Yes YESS. Trin the corner idea was inspired.
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Feb 10, 2017 05:37
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ViggyNash posted:Baguette is gonna get so hosed. Poor town has no idea what's about to happen, they all thought the clusterfuck would happen over in Saint Croissant. And so does everyone else. I'm pulling for an early slapfight as both sides try to take a commanding position on La Cote.
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Feb 10, 2017 05:58
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Patrick Spens posted:I'm pulling for an early slapfight as both sides try to take a commanding position on La Cote. why would they? the position is a simple detour - neither side knows where the other's at, and indirect fire isn't really a Thing at this point in the war
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Feb 10, 2017 08:06
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i mean, once they run into each other they'll curse that they didn't do it, but aaah ha ha
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Feb 10, 2017 08:07
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The entente assuming the Germans are on the opposite corner is hilarious. Only mydad seems cautious. Will General Mon Pere be able to convince his subordinates? Will superior French elan win the day? Will the Germans stop hiding in Roll20? All that and more at the blog!
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Feb 10, 2017 08:12
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Yeah, Trin has pretty much done everything I would have done if I ever got time to do one of these again, The River was a big mistake last time, as was not making this a meeting engagement. I was also far to lax on letting people change orders every 30 seconds. I was even going to do the coming in at the same corner bit! Its going to be interesting to see how this shakes out.
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Feb 10, 2017 09:31
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Had trouble sleeping last night, so I decided to run a couple of rounds of combat to practice and test some of my assumptions; here's what the game looks like when you're adjudicating it. The 1911 Army Manoeuvres The first thing I did was to go to the scenario in the OP and ran that through three times (except the French only had their accurate 1 MG company not three, as I cunningly displayed in there) with the Germans charging through the wood and then going "oh shitballs" but carrying on anyway. The Germans won the first run, but then the French took the next two. Tried to sleep again, still nothing really happening, so then I did something a bit more elaborate; two brigades starting at their starting points, with orders to cross the map diagonally and engage any enemy. The French brigade was given 4 75mm guns from divisional reserve, the Germans got 3 FKs, one 10cm, and one cav. Here's the map again.  Turn 1, 0800, French initiative The Germans rounded the corner at top right of the map on the way to Bouclecourt, the French reached the Dallas crossroads. I start thinking up flavour text to put alongside "everyone marches". Turn 2: 0830, French initiative The French got just short of Clemenceau Ridge, the Germans just short of Bouclecourt, I go have a drink Turn 3: 0900, German initiative The Germans come up just behind Pasteur Ridge, the French are just short of Clemenceau. I take a screenshot to show off some of my tools; one of the many ranging bullseyes I've created, and the red chits I use as markers when needed.  A nagging feeling starts that I might have forgotten something. Turn 4, 0930, French initiative, needle scratch At this point I realise that I forgot to do anything with the German brigade's cavalry. I give it orders to go up ahead, look for trouble, and turn back when it spots something; fortunately there's enough markers in place to work backwards and reset everything. Turns out that the cav got to the top of Pasteur Ridge on turn 2 and might have had LOS on the French, except for that town and wood that some bastard put there against just such an eventuality. On turn 3 it descended into St Croissant with the initiative and came out the other side; the French then moved up to the position in that first screenshot and spotted the cav. The French remain in Marching Order.  The screenshots you get in the actual battle will be good and prettified; this one still has a bunch of chits lying around from the old battle, the French brigaded guns are missing, the German brigaded guns have sneaked off for a quiet smoke. (I do have a system planned for keeping track of everything that needs to move and do stuff, but I'm not using it fully yet.) Actual Turn 4, 0930, French initiative. The German cav runs away, the French continue up the road, the German brigade marches over the hill and mutual spotting ensues. Both commanders decide now to adopt Battle Order and march into St Croissants by the shortest route. The Germans choose a compact formation, the French a spread-out one. Turn 5, 1000, French initiative All movement is used up adopting Battle Order Turn 6, 1030, German The Teutonic blob aims at Clemenceau and descends at full 8" movement (later I wonder whether they should have gone to combat movement but I'm pretty sure I house-ruled the answer to be no). The French advance at 4" because it takes a while for the wing companies to get to the end of the line. At the end of the turn, both sides have briefly lost contact.  Turn 7, 1100, French The French advance and close their ranks, preparing to move into the town, prompting a lot of chit-shuffling as I switch everyone from a brigade block to individual units. The Germans advance to meet them, contact is restored, I may have forgotten to put everyone on 4" movement again, the German cav takes its turn to sidle off for a quiet smoke, and we get the first firing.  No MGs allowed because they moved this turn, but the riflemen score several good hits. A German company rallies, both commanders change their orders and succeed, but the French left is out of the 8-inch radius and therefore has a one-turn delay before it gets the order change. Turn 8, 1130, French Three French companies advance into St C and then get the order to stop as the brigade moves to Defend, I allow the French to shuffle two rifle companies out from behind the city in a ruling I need to think more about when I'm not sleep-deprived. The German commander just sits still, the French MG rolls good, the German MGs answer back in kind (three dead companies), and then my d6 goes cold for the French riflemen and wakes up for the Germans. Killshots all over the place and it's so exciting I forgot to screenshot it; the French teeter on the edge of a morale check. Turn 9: KABLAMMO The German commander shuffles some men forward through a friendly square, the Frenchman sits still and prays to Dieu and the artillery, but the Germans have initiative. A 75 drops and so does the MG; all the French guns can do is suppress the mortar. The French commander is unpleasantly surprised to find that his guns are within 12" of the German MGs, and they claim another 75. The French claim a German rifle company, but then the turn ends and the French commander, noticing it is nearly lunchtime, fails his morale check, and everyone leaves the field at 12:15pm, with plenty of time to enjoy a gluttonous four-hour lunch and talk shop.  (trailer ends) edit: I am very glad I ran this through a few times to experiment with different ways of Brigade Commanders giving orders! Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 11:24
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V. Illych L. posted:why would they? the position is a simple detour - neither side knows where the other's at, and indirect fire isn't really a Thing at this point in the war The Entente really want it, because they trying to hold as much ground as possible.
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Feb 10, 2017 15:04
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Looking good so far, Trin, but another map suggestion if you haven't thought of it: I would find an occasional scale bar or ruler helpful, since range and movement are fairly important.
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Feb 10, 2017 15:34
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So the Germans are currently ignoring La Cote and rushing to set up a defensive front on Pasteur Ridge: They haven't posted a lot of their plans in the thread, so this could be far from their final starting plan of action. Meanwhile, it looks like the French are trying to decide between two courses of action, one proposed by barracuda and the other by my dad: Bacarruda posted:Here's my original plan, Plan SUD It's gonna be really interesting to see how this plays out. If the French go with barracuda's original plan (first one), then they will be in a strong position to hold against the German push from Pasteur Ridge. However, if they follow my dad's plan, they could potentially flank from La Cote and put the Germans out of position. However, it seems like the Germans are at least considering that the French might not come from the opposite corner, so they might plan a contingency. I can't wait for the fireworks to begin
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Feb 10, 2017 18:06
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Tevery Best comes through with another highly pretty map. They may not post much, but bigads, when they do... German thinking now appears committed to swivelling around St Croissant - and I must admit, I chose that name over Gooneville because I imagined both sides potentially favouring a croissant-shaped attack around it. French thinking remains slightly more open, though! It's pretty much everything I could have hoped for.
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Feb 11, 2017 01:41
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Nice. It's cool to see games like this and the Combat Mission Black Sea LP use limited information for the participants. It's certainly more interesting for the spectators
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Feb 11, 2017 01:45
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Grumio posted:Nice. It's cool to see games like this and the Combat Mission Black Sea LP use limited information for the participants. It's certainly more interesting for the spectators More likely to generate history-like escapades, too.
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Feb 11, 2017 02:10
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I'm already excited! This will be interesting to watch as both sides slowly realize what has happened.
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Feb 11, 2017 03:37
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Trin Tragula posted:Tevery Best comes through with another highly pretty map. They may not post much, but bigads, when they do... Tevery Best has an interesting way of seeing things. He's making the assumption the French will be in the bottom left because that's the worst case scenario for them, and anything else is probably a better situation for them. He acknowledges the possibility of a bottom right starting position, and the potential dangers of a flank from La Cote, then goes, "Eh, probably not." Meanwhile, my dad is planning exactly that. Trin Tragula, starting them both on the right side was goddamn genius.
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Feb 11, 2017 17:21
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Looks like the Germans are planning to have their spotter plane go overhead the moment the game starts. Will this occur before deployment or after the troops have been committed to their start positions?
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Feb 11, 2017 18:36
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For those of us observers who have never played this kind of game before, is there a reference anywhere to what the different chits represent?
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Feb 11, 2017 23:10
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If they commit the spotter plane on Turn 1 it's going to see gently caress-all because they'll deploy it in the wrong place and it won't be able to see anything in the mist.TheOneAndOnlyT posted:For those of us observers who have never played this kind of game before, is there a reference anywhere to what the different chits represent? GdC Mon Pere has you covered in his roll20:  (I put it into an F-shape and am now waiting patiently for someone to notice.) The 1912 Army Manoeuvres I did another playtest to check my rules tweaks, and other concerns like whether the French cavalry brigade is actually a viable formation. Brief lessons learned: I need an auto-response for a brigade to decide whether it wants to chase after enemies who break off or let them go, the cavalry brigade is a viable formation when used in the correct way, arriving somewhere first is absolutely critical, and all things being equal the Germans are probably slightly stronger than the French, which is as I intended it to be, but it also seems very possible that good generalship could overcome their disadvantages. Two brigades per side plus the French Cavalry Brigade, each team had "standard" allocations of divisional artillery. Usual starting positions, both teams had orders to take and hold St Croissants. One commander on each side plus the French Cavalry Brigade commander was deemed "aggressive" and would order his men to attack on contact and make Bayonet Charges; the other was deemed "defensive" and would favour holding in position to benefit from shooting first. Most of these maps have my range bullseyes turned on, and you can also see in some of them Photoshop's ruler tool, which I use to check line of sight. Turn 1: spotting nearly, but not quite possible  Turn 2: The French will, as I hoped, have a traffic jam at the crossroads if they try to bring all their men in on the road at once. (It's designed to give the Germans a chance of fulfilling that objective of containing the French into a quarter of the map.)  Turn 3: The French plan was deemed to be to sweep round and attack out of the wood, so they could attempt to possibly cut off Germans attacking from the north-west corner; they should have charged here and swept away the German cav picket  Turn 4: Firing begins and I get my new markers out for the first time; this one means "dead", surprisingly enough.  Turn 5: The French cav runs for the woods as I test out ways of tracking pass-through fire  Turn 6: Everyone goes into Battle Order  Turn 7: Firing begins in earnest  Turn 8: The Germans launch a huge bayonet charge right as the French roll terribly Turn 9: The French 2nd Brigade begins retreating in absolute disorder  Turn 10: The 1st Brigade charges into Croissants  Turn 11: The 1st Brigade begins clearing Croissants, but the 2nd Brigade routs off-screen  Turn 12: It's all over bar the shouting  Turn 13: 2-0 to the Germans  The 1913 Manoeuvres will be conducted soon; the French will take up well-prepared positions around the SW crossroads and attempt to stop the Germans reaching their main objective. That'll be when we find out the effect of being in prepared positions instead of marching to contact and then switching to Defend. Also, by my calculations, that's 48 "killed" companies for an approximate 9,200 casualties, and a further 3,000 in 15 companies who decided they had something better to do and left the field. Not bad for a morning's work! vvv Don't you go pooh-poohing the Arse Hortillery, it had its own moment of glory at Nery in September 1914 before the war bogged down vvv Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 23:15
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Horse Artillery? What even is that?
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Feb 11, 2017 23:21
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ViggyNash posted:Horse Artillery? What even is that? Assuming this is a serious question...it's artillery on horse-drawn limbers, ready for rapid movement. Usually lighter, rapid-firing weapons intended to support infantry and advance alongside it.
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Feb 11, 2017 23:25
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The French are certainly playing up the focus on Elan, but that led me to find this interesting article on how it shaped French military theory: http://www.virdea.net/french/infantry-tactics.html
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Feb 12, 2017 01:52
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Trin Tragula posted:
Seems like the French would have been more successful if their Cav has been sent into St Croissant directly...they would have almost certainly driven out the German pickets and would have held up the German advance long enough for the infantry to get into position. I'm also interested in how well arse hortillery would be at harassing an enemy advance, say from the top of Dejeuner like in Barracuda's plan. quote:Infantry, Engineers, Machine Guns, Mortars, Artillery, and anything else I haven't thought of: 8" If I'm reading this right, you could potentially slow down the other side's advance if you rushed a cavalry unit out and into view and forced their units to go to half movement. Does this happen even if a unit is ordered to ignore spotted units and continue moving towards their destination?
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Feb 12, 2017 02:37
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I'd be tempted to leave the casualty makers in place, as they give a good idea of the flow of battle - mayve drop them into a different group in photoshop so you can turn them off during a turn to only show the fresh ones. also with a smaller map, you won't have the problem I had at the end that even on a decent pc, it took ten seconds to move chits around by the end! I really did over egg it!
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Feb 12, 2017 06:23
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Looks like the Entente is starting to do some contingency planning for the German's actual point of entry. It'll be interesting to see which side can adapt fastest once they find out what's going on. And by interesting I mean hilarious.
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Feb 12, 2017 06:40
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Put the dead markers as reg markers but with a skull+crossbones and fade them 30%
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Feb 12, 2017 06:46
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Looking at the latest plans from both sides, I think Germany are in for a rude shock.
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Feb 12, 2017 21:29
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 03:35 |
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Loxbourne posted:Assuming this is a serious question...it's artillery on horse-drawn limbers, ready for rapid movement. Usually lighter, rapid-firing weapons intended to support infantry and advance alongside it. I was having a lot of trouble trying to imagine what the term was describing because I'd never heard of it before. My first thought was a mortar saddle. Also, the Germans might be hosed given their plan of attack and lack of contingency, but they're sure having fun thinking they aren't. aphid_licker posted:Ve haff set aside a bucket of Iron Crosses for the glorious dead and selected survivors *rattles bucket* ViggyNash fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 12, 2017 22:07
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