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French update German update The German Roll20's gruntle is now thoroughly dissed. It is now Turn 7. Again, more analysis to come.
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Feb 17, 2017 21:36
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| # ? Apr 20, 2024 08:47 |
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my dad posted:It's possible that we lost 4 artillery chits, including both 155s before the battle even started because of a screenshot-related misunderstanding. One (1) of Loel's creenshots didn't include them, every screenshot he made after did, though, and apparently they haven't been deployed to the field because of it. I don't see any French 155s on the map. It looks like the French were so ELAN they forgot all their heavy artillery  Despite that grievous error, I think this fight is still winnable for both sides. It's all going to come down to who fucks up most with the first set of new orders.
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Feb 17, 2017 23:02
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It seems it wasn't a good idea to script the brigades for bayonet charge when you don't know how the situation is going to look like.
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Feb 18, 2017 00:43
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Wow, things descended into chaos fast. If I were the French I would be trying to spread out a bit more just due to the two incidents of units colliding. At the same time, the Germans are so much more concentrated already that I would start to worry they were a single charge away from rolling up the lines.
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Feb 18, 2017 00:45
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I am interested to see how my dad is going to execute Leol for forgetting the biggest guns they have. Also interested to see how Trin handles some of these gently caress ups. BTW trin when the dust settles I'm sure I'm not the only one who's interested in your thoughts on how manageable it has been with the reduced scale.
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Feb 18, 2017 00:54
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News from the front, of sorts. I was hanging out as an observer in the Entente Roll20 and they asked me to post their chatlog in here. Here is a pastebin containing the entire log up to that point, and, because that's gigantic, later on I'll go through it and try to make an "abridged version" of just the fun bits.
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Feb 18, 2017 00:59
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Ooh thanks, Trin's ruling on how to handle the 155 gently caress up is in there. They'll reappear at some point apparentlyTrin, in the entente R20, posted:Trin Tragula (GM): OK, the ruling is that they took a wrong turn when they shook out into battle order and the horses bolted as far as they can bolt when they're towing a really big gun Splode fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Feb 18, 2017 |
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Feb 18, 2017 01:12
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this is so good, looking forward to everything bogging down in horror
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Feb 18, 2017 09:09
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The French Roll20 is, ahem, optimistic. This will surely end well.
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Feb 18, 2017 14:37
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Trin Tragula posted:The French Roll20 is, ahem, optimistic. And they're sending the other green brigade on a bayonet charge  RIP those poor shopkeepers...
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Feb 18, 2017 15:35
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New update. Marvin the Martian will not be disappointed with it. Germans French There was, indeed, an earth-shattering kaboom. It is now Turn 9, 11am. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 02:50
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Both links lead to the Entente thread. e: Thanks, Trin. OpenlyEvilJello fucked around with this message at 07:33 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 03:00
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Final thought for tonight. 57 French companies lost, 73 German. The French started with 210 companies and now have 153 on the board. The Germans started with 195, added 34 more in reinforcements; they have 156 on the board. The French army commander will intervene at 52 companies or less, the German army commander at 57 or less. The French in Roll20 right now are making GBS threads themselves because "They seem to have more of everything." Hmmm.
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Feb 19, 2017 03:43
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So I have a potentially silly question. Where are the division command chits? I don't see any of them. Also the 99th still seems to be missing their 155mm cannons, which have a bigger number. Istvun fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 04:23
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I am thoroughly stunned I didn't check this out before. This kind of stuff is why I want to play more wargames with an umpire 
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Feb 20, 2017 18:19
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I keep division commands switched off at all times unless I'm moving them (or unless there's a reason for someone to spot them moving around), so I don't inadvertently show them to the wrong teams. For the French, 6th Division is in Baguende and 22nd Division is in Clemenceau. For the Germans, 19th Division is in the Old Forest NW of Nainville as it moves to Bouclecourt, and 43rd Division is hiding itself amongst the men of the western (5th) reserve brigade as it moves to St Croissant. The missing 75s are going to roll back out of the Bois de Tigre in about 4-6 turns' time. I was going to withhold the 155s for X+3 turns and then give them back, but then Slim Jim Pickens went and violated the fourth rule of war; those rules being as follows: 1). Do not march on Moscow. 2). Do not go fighting with your land armies in China. 3). Do not split the party. 4). Do not speculate about what horrors and misfortunes might be in store for you later in the campaign, because And the idea of the 155s rolling back onto the map in the semi-drunken company of a BEF brigade is far, far, far too funny to pass up. (My attitude towards that mis-order is generally that you don't have what you don't think you have, but he only forgot them in one out of multiple images and they were properly attached by the division commander, so he gets them back after a suitable delay.) Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Feb 20, 2017 |
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Feb 20, 2017 18:38
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oh please you gods of war let the Germans win this by rolling into a tiny French village with a handful of soldiers on bicycles while the real battle happens somewhere completely else 
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Feb 20, 2017 23:12
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That would be a fitting end, but the French seem pretty aware of that possibility. I'm expecting those bikes to get blown to bits.
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Feb 20, 2017 23:15
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The thread will note that the orders require each side to take and hold their corner objective, and mention that there is a timer involved. They will be unpleasantly surprised if they think that just entering the objective unopposed and getting a runner off the board will be enough to give them victory, and then I will laugh. Now, here's something I'd really like to draw your attention to. After having dropped a massive bollock in failing to guard against the possibility of me loving with them by having both teams start from the right of the map, Tevery Best has this time chosen to listen to Cassandra (in the person of crazycryodude, the one who had me bang to rights on Turn 0 and got roundly ignored): quote:Crazycryodude (GM): Just tossing my speculation on the pile, but I'm pretty sure the French win objective is the town in the top left - it's a symmetrical setup. Trin starts us both on the same side and has us rush for objectives directly opposite so we get a nice big Charlie Foxtrot around St. Croissant So Tevery puts on his thinking Pickelhaube, and he comes up with this ITGT: Tevery Best posted:Guys, I need your opinions on a new plan. In the German thread he goes on at much more length, but that's the gist of it. He's figured out that less than half the board is important, and holding the east is singularly unimportant to winning the game. This was very much in my mind when I was designing the map; it was a major reason for why I went for an oblong rather than a square battlefield, and is also why the telephone (and reinforcement) zones run corner-to-corner along the long edges. Would either side work this out and attempt to orient themselves N/S instead of E/W or diagonally in order to shorten their line? (This is also why those two objective 3s exist, the ones that tell the Germans to pin the French and the French to occupy as much territory as possible - they're there as a red herring to obscure the fact that a N/S line can hold St Croissant and both corner objectives behind it.) What I'd like to know now is: if Mon Pere calls for reinforcements, where does he bring them in? Does he notice that I've given him both ends of the mid-board E/W Bread Road, possibly soon to become der Brotstrasse? And if so, does he bring his fresh men in at Baguende, literal miles away from the action (it's no accident that I put all my Shire LotR jokes in the map's own irrelevant backwater), or in the west where they can hop, skip and jump to their objective? I think that there's every chance here that what we're seeing is a vitally important moment; the French are still fundamentally reacting to what's happened, with no real attempt to analyse what it means or how it helps them. Across the way, the Germans are, perhaps out of necessity, being forced to challenge all their assumptions, even some of the ones they didn't realise they were making. There's still a long way to go, but for my money, this is the most positive moment for the Germans since the game began and offers them a real chance of winning the battle for the first time. (Also, prospective players for later rounds, take note: after Turn 7 the Germans were wailing and gnashing their teeth in Roll20 and moaning like the sky had just fallen and telling each other how utterly doomed they were. Just two turns later and now the picture looks completely and totally different.) Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 01:03
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The Germans have the objective, and their center is strong - they also have an inkling of the French objectives, and can use this to their advantage. I'm expecting the north east to St Croissant to stagnate now. The Germans will dig in on the hill, while pivoting on the western flank. The focus of the battle will shift and we may well see a line forming something like this.  Solid colours are where I expect the two sides to hold, while the dotted lines are "best case" scenarios - this assumes that neither side routs from the field of course! The French should get the ridge, as they have a brigade closer than the Germans, but this then depends on them holding it. It really comes down to if the commanders want to go all out to get their objectives or decide to hold the ground they have - we can see a shift in mentality in the french to be more defensive, with a whole brigade already digging in on Clemencau as opposed to doing something more aggressive. There is everything to play for - as always in these things, the players will break before their soldiers - mainly I think because they can see the big picture, while a soldier in the trenches would make decisions based on what small part of the battlefield they can see.
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Feb 21, 2017 09:14
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If the Germans decide to abandon the east I think they can win this. The French are almost all in combat or focused on the center while the Germans still have uncommitted forces and a group to the west already (though north of the objective). If nothing else they can probably force the French into a trench fight by cutting them off from their objective.
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Feb 21, 2017 14:40
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We are now halfway through the first day, and the commanders are halfway through their men. If this rate of attrition continues, one or both of the army commanders will call a halt by (IRL) this time next week and (ingame) in about 8-16 turns' time. French thread German thread 44,800 men no longer fighting, although about half of those are routed. It's a new take on the Prisoner's Dilemma; either I attack and you defend and you win; or you attack and I defend and I win; or we both attack and we both lose... Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Feb 22, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 03:13
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The Germans are probably right to think that even if they got close to taking Quatreprouts, any French reinforcements would march in from the SW corner and push them out. They could potentially smash what's left of the eastern French line, but they don't gain any points for destroying French units that would offset extending themselves. Maybe an idea for the next round...
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Feb 22, 2017 05:06
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Fun brawl so far! It's very interesting reading over the analysis in the thread and how folks go about planning.
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Feb 22, 2017 05:22
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Terrifying Effigies posted:The Germans are probably right to think that even if they got close to taking Quatreprouts, any French reinforcements would march in from the SW corner and push them out. They could potentially smash what's left of the eastern French line, but they don't gain any points for destroying French units that would offset extending themselves. Maybe an idea for the next round... So reinforcements will be coming from a different quarter, I presume.
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Feb 22, 2017 05:55
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Both sides are firmly in the defensive mindset, and barring some skirmishes around the western side of the map, we are probably seeing the lines for this battle. The Germans have the town, the French their trenches on the town, whoever attacks now would be cut to pieces and be giving up and hope of victory. The French could bring their new brigade on on the far corner of the map and use cover to try and steal their objective, but as a green brigade, it would evaporate as soon as it took any hits. Trin - are you using the VP system or your own?
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Feb 22, 2017 09:41
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My own system; you don't need a fiddly little system with a point to Gryffindor for capturing everything that would be marked on an Ordnance Survey map to ensure focused combat, as we've just seen. Their superiors (and the historians) will judge them depending on how well they've fulfilled the four objectives given to them in their orders, and determine a winner. General Mon Pere calls for his pipe and he calls for his bowl and he calls for his reinforcements three, which unlike the Germans (who started outnumbered, let's remember) will be dribbled slowly into the battle. I wouldn't be too disappointed if the lines settled down roughly where they are now, it'd set up some fun and games in 1915. If the Germans could get two or three brigades moving now, they still stand a reasonable chance of getting into Quatreprouts (which the BEF might well have some trouble finding, at least in terms of using the optimal road, tee hee), especially if they did it with a big loop round the left-hand side of the Bois de Bacon, but the question is whether Tevery Best can rally morale enough to get that done, and to move in enough force to get it done. Again, we're in a historical situation which is exactly what I'm hoping for; both sides may well now try to learn from the morning's events by turtling up and becoming overly cautious, when a run to their corner objectives is still far from out of the question and would be quite possible if carried out quickly and boldly. Yes, being on the defensive is to be at an advantage, but if you can get there first and go defensive first...
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Feb 22, 2017 09:55
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This is why I love Spearhead as a rules system - it really does capture the feel of a WWI battle, the planning stage means you can set up the game before you turn up, and then just laugh as your plans go horribly wrong.
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Feb 22, 2017 10:08
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Why didn't anyone say anything about this in any of my bookmarked threads? Who's going to overplan artillery timetables now?
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Feb 22, 2017 10:37
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dublish posted:Why didn't anyone say anything about this in any of my bookmarked threads? Who's going to overplan artillery timetables now? Much like yourself, the artillery partied too hard, and is arriving late to the battle.
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Feb 22, 2017 10:48
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Until the French get their reinforcements into play, they're gonna be hurting. But, they seem to be holding up for the most part, and as long as they play defensive they can hold on for now. Hopefully the French start to dig in.
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Feb 22, 2017 16:53
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The Cassandra Files, Part Two Crazycryodude is a clever person with much insight into the kind of mean and sneaky tricks I like to perpetrate upon my players. Maestro, the chat log please! quote:Crazycryodude (GM): I'm worried about them being able to call in reinforcements on basically any map edge in the bottom half or so They are, incidentally, both correct; the map was drawn so it looked roughly right, but the telephone map and initial deployment zones were then chosen with careful precision. quote:Crazycryodude (GM): See, that's the trap he wants you to all into Guilty, yeronner! The part of this I enjoy the most, by the way (and there are many such parts) is the bit where they keep assuming that the French are acting coolly and calmly and with perfect logic and understanding, instead of bumblefucking cluelessly around in much the same way as they themselves are being forced to  (note for when the persons involved read this thread: love you, just trying to provide a little bread and circuses for the great unwashed) (note for everyone currently reading this thread: rest assured I am fully confident in your ability to clean yourselves)
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Feb 22, 2017 17:51
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dublish posted:Why didn't anyone say anything about this in any of my bookmarked threads? Who's going to overplan artillery timetables now? Presumably this means you have failed to bookmark the A/T Milhist Thread, in which case you should be ashamed of yourself.
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Feb 22, 2017 18:14
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OpenlyEvilJello posted:Presumably this means you have failed to bookmark the A/T Milhist Thread, in which case you should be ashamed of yourself. It's worse than that. I had it bookmarked, until about a month ago when it mysteriously became unbookmarked. And I didn't notice. 
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Feb 22, 2017 20:09
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Update up! It's now 3pm, and the fate of the battle hangs in the balance. French German Tevery Best is pissing himself with delight. The French are just pissing themselves. The BEF brigade, by the way, will be arriving in 1d4 [edit: 2] turns time from the base of the Bois de Tigre, having got slightly lost on the way, but having also found and brigaded two missing French 155mm guns... So, the grand old Graf von Yorck has successfully marched his men to the top of the hill. The question now becomes; will he march them down again, and if so, on which side? Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 00:58
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To me it looks like the French will take fablimpot or whatever it's called completely uncontested, whereas the Germans have a bit of company at 'Q'. Am I missing something?
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Feb 24, 2017 01:01
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Yes. You're missing that the BEF is going to come onto the map in a completely different place from where the French planned (yes, I'm horrible), and that the French's only thought during the last planning phase was to use the reinforcement brigade as cover while the BEF enters from the left edge (which it won't) and marches up to the objective. The BEF is going to get sidetracked into defending Quatrepouts. The reinforcement brigade will have to roll really well to change its orders and it'll be painfully obvious where they're going if they're observed moving again - they're also green and make three morale checks. I'm far from convinced that the Germans will take Quatrepouts, but if I were betting, I'd have my money on them to take their corner objective.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:06
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You are truly evil Trin. The French have really had a disadvantage in this fight, what with less guns, fewer reinforcements etc, is that deliberate?
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Feb 24, 2017 01:11
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The situation is asymmetric, but I wouldn't say "unbalanced". They did start with more chits (and will have a comfortable 25-chit advantage when the BEF arrives) and got off to a flying start by removing that entire German division from the board, don't forget; and they've also benefited by being able to bring in their reinforcements from a much more northerly position than the Germans would have been able to in an equivalent situation. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KylMqxLzNGo  about 14,000 casualties in this image, not including the routed Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 03:03
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| # ? Apr 20, 2024 08:47 |
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So, it looks like the French might be forgetting that units inside towns count as hard cover and can't be spotted from a long distance. they seem to thin they can waltz through the German center, when in fact, its still pretty well defended.....
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Feb 24, 2017 10:21
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