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 We are currently between games! New players can sign up from next Monday, March 6th! Just under two years ago, LP powerhouse Grey Hunter had one of his many magnificent, ridiculous ideas: a massive re-enactment of the First World War using Great War: Spearhead tabletop gaming rules. The smallest chit size in that game is a company; so Grey, being Grey, decided to play it with Army-sized formations. This is how it ended up...  It was magnificent, and ridiculous, and far too soon it fell over under its own weight. But the basic idea deserves another go-round. Leaner, meaner, faster, better. The System (This is based on you-know-who's excellent original OP.) Spearhead is an IGOUGO system, designed so it could be played with hidden movement and the fog of war concealing the battlefield. Individual commanders pass orders to an umpire, the umpire resolves them, and all the commanders get told is what their men can physically see happen, groping blindly for command and control. An excellent way of simulating the First World War, a war in which generals were forced to wait miles behind the lines, acting on information that was often out of date when they receieved it, sending back orders that usually bore no resemblance to the situation on the ground when they arrived. Can we do better than history? Or worse? Or about the same? The game is designed for play with corps and division-sized formations. Individual miniatures represent companies of cavalry and infantry, machine-guns, artillery batteries, and so on. Commanders produce a pre-battle plan, watch it all go horribly wrong, and then must succeed on a dice roll before they can put things right. The system also is flexible enough to cover the vast advances in technology and tactics; from a fast-moving open war of manouevre in 1914, through the worst of the trench slog in 1916, the rise of tanks and artillery, stormtroopers, defence in depth, to the eventual maturity of combined arms in 1918. Here is the map for the first round, somewhere in France. It doesn't represent anywhere in particular; we'll have no "aha, I know that in real life attacking such-and-such a place was a hideous failure" metagaming here.  The  Here is a French infantry brigade defending on a hillside as the Germans approach. This is what the French brigade commander sees; it all looks good for the men in red trousers. But, not so fast!  That's what the German brigade commander sees. Suddenly it looks like curtains for the French; the German commander too is unaware of exactly what awaits, his vision blocked by the wood.  And that's what the umpire and the schadenfreude-lovers in the observer thread see. Now it seems that it could go either way when the Germans advance! There will be two teams; Entente vs Germans, each playing in their own thread, preparing their troops, laying their plans, groping through the fog, and we'll fight a battle. And then we'll bury our dead, and the enemy will bury theirs; and then it'll start all over again. We'll be able to see the war ebb and flow over this little corner of France as the years go by; 1914, 1915, 1916, who knows? New technology will arrive; aircraft, gas, landships, armoured cars, and more. Everything anyone needs to know to play will be posted in the team threads once we've had a few signups; there's a big complicated rulebook, but we'll be making this as simple as possible, and I'm also introducing plenty of house rules and tweaks to spice things up a bit and hopefully solve the problems we ran into in Grey's game. We'll be playing at corps level, and what I'm hoping to do is get to a situation in which divisional and corps commanders have to build up a picture of the battle for themselves, based solely on interpreting reports from their brigadiers, who will be the ones at the sharp end ordering individual chits around. Timing Last time round we played one full battle, which lasted just over 24 hours of game time, but took about two months to play through. I'm hoping to streamline that to the point where we can get an entire battle done in about 7-14 days, with turns coming thick and fast and players given minimal time to react to changing events. Don't worry if all this seems overwhelming; it did to the real generals at the time. That's the challenge! Who can get there firstest with the mostest? Who can gently caress up the littlest and the leastest? Who'll get lucky, and who'll stand on the rake? Round 1: August 1914 has just concluded, taking about 2-3 weeks of real time! Round 2 will begin shortly! Entente Thread German Thread 
Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Mar 6, 2017 |
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Feb 8, 2017 12:09
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Camrath posted:Very much interested in this, but as a complete virgin to this sort of thing what sort of level of participation is needed? We talking a few posts per day or sitting at my desk pummelling F5 like it's Verdun and my finger is German artillery? Definitely more the former than the latter; think of a lot of people building a big long line of falling dominoes. Everyone needs to put in a little effort to put the thing up, but then once it starts, you can't do too much but watch and give it an occasional push if your bit falls the wrong way.
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Feb 8, 2017 14:40
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Time for me to get cracking on some team threads already, I guess! Still plenty of spots available for those who want them! Players who aren't sure about jumping into command can also join the game as staff officers, playing observers who don't command any units but who stick to one side and offer their advice to the commanders; this also ensures we have a pool of ready replacements in case of player drop-out, who haven't been reading both sides of the battle. For obvious reasons, once we have those threads up and start talking tactics, I'll post a big obvious message; anyone who wants to play in the first battle must then pick their side and stay out of this thread and the other team's. Oh yeah, and that map needs some names, people.
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Feb 8, 2017 19:50
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Threads for each side are now opening. Once you read past the siren, you're committed either to neutrality or to fighting for that particular side in the upcoming battle. It's okay to come back in here for a while longer, do some place-naming, see who's signing up; I'll put more sirens up when that goes off. Entente Germans
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Feb 8, 2017 22:21
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Hunt11 posted:So can you tell us what the general objective is or will we have to wait to hear the orders from command? When both sides appear to have agreed on a corps commander, the corps commander will be given objectives.
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Feb 9, 2017 01:58
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The French have received their orders; when the Germans get theirs there will be a countdown, signups will close, and players will be barred from this thread. We're filling up fast; there may be one or two commands left, but feel free to go sign up as a staff officer and you may get to play as a replacement or a reinforcement. edited for the all-time greatest Great War poem, which appeared in the Wipers Times in 1916 The world wasn't made in a day, And Eve didn't ride on a bus, But most of the world's in a sandbag The rest of it's plastered on us. (It was.) Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Feb 9, 2017 |
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Feb 9, 2017 13:39
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aphid_licker posted:Trin, how are you handling the bookkeeping? Do you have a physical board set up? Someone calculated that the map in the last game covered something ludicrous like 400 physical tables' worth of space, so no. #squadgoals What I've actually got is a Photoshop map which is entirely built of layers, so I can switch everything on and off at my convenience, and then a company-by-company spreadsheet for tracking what everyone's up to and making sure I don't miss people's orders. Plus the house rules document, the chits, the measuring sticks, the signups tracker... (I am going to be rolling actual dice for at least initiative, if nothing else; although when combat starts I'll be on Roll20 because if I wanted to throw 12d6 every 30 seconds I'd be playing Shadowrun...)
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Feb 9, 2017 20:24
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Both sides have a full Order of Battle. THIS THREAD IS NOW FOR NON-PLAYING OBSERVERS ONLY. IT IS OUT OF BOUNDS TO ACTIVE PLAYERS AND STAFF OFFICERS UNTIL THE END OF THE BATTLE. IF YOU WANT TO JOIN ONE THREAD AS A NON-PLAYING STAFF OFFICER, YOU MAY STILL DO SO, BUT YOU MUST NOT READ ANY FURTHER THAN THIS POST, OR YOU WILL KNOW THINGS YOU AREN'T ALLOWED TO KNOW Comments about map design and starting positions to follow! 
Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Feb 9, 2017 |
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Feb 9, 2017 22:47
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Done. Right then. I hope this doesn't seem like slagging Grey off, but a lot of the things about this map are based on things that didn't go so well first time round. Both sides deployed right up in each other's face, hell ensued. Practically, there was no chance of having any minor events to help people get to grips with the rules and gameplay; the fighting was underway almost immediately. Then people got tangled up with the river, and then the battle in general suffered badly from having no clear objectives for either side. So I've done something about that. No river, and each team has been given orders to guide them in a certain direction. All the units begin off-board and have to march on; this is going to be one hell of a meeting engagement. I've also made the extremely mean and sneaky decision to have both teams enter from the right-hand side of the map. This will hopefully cause people to assume that since we're in one corner, the other team must be in the opposite corner. And having done that, of course I'm going to give both teams an objective on the opposite corner of the map so they're guaranteed to run into each other. Tee hee. After reading the French thread and the German Roll20, here's a summary of what they both intend to do at this early stage of planning:   Also, have a fully-named copy of the map.  edit: vvv yeah, that's just me knocking something together in 30 seconds with Paint vvv Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 00:41 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 9, 2017 23:40
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Had trouble sleeping last night, so I decided to run a couple of rounds of combat to practice and test some of my assumptions; here's what the game looks like when you're adjudicating it. The 1911 Army Manoeuvres The first thing I did was to go to the scenario in the OP and ran that through three times (except the French only had their accurate 1 MG company not three, as I cunningly displayed in there) with the Germans charging through the wood and then going "oh shitballs" but carrying on anyway. The Germans won the first run, but then the French took the next two. Tried to sleep again, still nothing really happening, so then I did something a bit more elaborate; two brigades starting at their starting points, with orders to cross the map diagonally and engage any enemy. The French brigade was given 4 75mm guns from divisional reserve, the Germans got 3 FKs, one 10cm, and one cav. Here's the map again.  Turn 1, 0800, French initiative The Germans rounded the corner at top right of the map on the way to Bouclecourt, the French reached the Dallas crossroads. I start thinking up flavour text to put alongside "everyone marches". Turn 2: 0830, French initiative The French got just short of Clemenceau Ridge, the Germans just short of Bouclecourt, I go have a drink Turn 3: 0900, German initiative The Germans come up just behind Pasteur Ridge, the French are just short of Clemenceau. I take a screenshot to show off some of my tools; one of the many ranging bullseyes I've created, and the red chits I use as markers when needed.  A nagging feeling starts that I might have forgotten something. Turn 4, 0930, French initiative, needle scratch At this point I realise that I forgot to do anything with the German brigade's cavalry. I give it orders to go up ahead, look for trouble, and turn back when it spots something; fortunately there's enough markers in place to work backwards and reset everything. Turns out that the cav got to the top of Pasteur Ridge on turn 2 and might have had LOS on the French, except for that town and wood that some bastard put there against just such an eventuality. On turn 3 it descended into St Croissant with the initiative and came out the other side; the French then moved up to the position in that first screenshot and spotted the cav. The French remain in Marching Order.  The screenshots you get in the actual battle will be good and prettified; this one still has a bunch of chits lying around from the old battle, the French brigaded guns are missing, the German brigaded guns have sneaked off for a quiet smoke. (I do have a system planned for keeping track of everything that needs to move and do stuff, but I'm not using it fully yet.) Actual Turn 4, 0930, French initiative. The German cav runs away, the French continue up the road, the German brigade marches over the hill and mutual spotting ensues. Both commanders decide now to adopt Battle Order and march into St Croissants by the shortest route. The Germans choose a compact formation, the French a spread-out one. Turn 5, 1000, French initiative All movement is used up adopting Battle Order Turn 6, 1030, German The Teutonic blob aims at Clemenceau and descends at full 8" movement (later I wonder whether they should have gone to combat movement but I'm pretty sure I house-ruled the answer to be no). The French advance at 4" because it takes a while for the wing companies to get to the end of the line. At the end of the turn, both sides have briefly lost contact.  Turn 7, 1100, French The French advance and close their ranks, preparing to move into the town, prompting a lot of chit-shuffling as I switch everyone from a brigade block to individual units. The Germans advance to meet them, contact is restored, I may have forgotten to put everyone on 4" movement again, the German cav takes its turn to sidle off for a quiet smoke, and we get the first firing.  No MGs allowed because they moved this turn, but the riflemen score several good hits. A German company rallies, both commanders change their orders and succeed, but the French left is out of the 8-inch radius and therefore has a one-turn delay before it gets the order change. Turn 8, 1130, French Three French companies advance into St C and then get the order to stop as the brigade moves to Defend, I allow the French to shuffle two rifle companies out from behind the city in a ruling I need to think more about when I'm not sleep-deprived. The German commander just sits still, the French MG rolls good, the German MGs answer back in kind (three dead companies), and then my d6 goes cold for the French riflemen and wakes up for the Germans. Killshots all over the place and it's so exciting I forgot to screenshot it; the French teeter on the edge of a morale check. Turn 9: KABLAMMO The German commander shuffles some men forward through a friendly square, the Frenchman sits still and prays to Dieu and the artillery, but the Germans have initiative. A 75 drops and so does the MG; all the French guns can do is suppress the mortar. The French commander is unpleasantly surprised to find that his guns are within 12" of the German MGs, and they claim another 75. The French claim a German rifle company, but then the turn ends and the French commander, noticing it is nearly lunchtime, fails his morale check, and everyone leaves the field at 12:15pm, with plenty of time to enjoy a gluttonous four-hour lunch and talk shop.  (trailer ends) edit: I am very glad I ran this through a few times to experiment with different ways of Brigade Commanders giving orders! Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Feb 10, 2017 |
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Feb 10, 2017 11:24
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Tevery Best comes through with another highly pretty map. They may not post much, but bigads, when they do... German thinking now appears committed to swivelling around St Croissant - and I must admit, I chose that name over Gooneville because I imagined both sides potentially favouring a croissant-shaped attack around it. French thinking remains slightly more open, though! It's pretty much everything I could have hoped for.
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Feb 11, 2017 01:41
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If they commit the spotter plane on Turn 1 it's going to see gently caress-all because they'll deploy it in the wrong place and it won't be able to see anything in the mist.TheOneAndOnlyT posted:For those of us observers who have never played this kind of game before, is there a reference anywhere to what the different chits represent? GdC Mon Pere has you covered in his roll20:  (I put it into an F-shape and am now waiting patiently for someone to notice.) The 1912 Army Manoeuvres I did another playtest to check my rules tweaks, and other concerns like whether the French cavalry brigade is actually a viable formation. Brief lessons learned: I need an auto-response for a brigade to decide whether it wants to chase after enemies who break off or let them go, the cavalry brigade is a viable formation when used in the correct way, arriving somewhere first is absolutely critical, and all things being equal the Germans are probably slightly stronger than the French, which is as I intended it to be, but it also seems very possible that good generalship could overcome their disadvantages. Two brigades per side plus the French Cavalry Brigade, each team had "standard" allocations of divisional artillery. Usual starting positions, both teams had orders to take and hold St Croissants. One commander on each side plus the French Cavalry Brigade commander was deemed "aggressive" and would order his men to attack on contact and make Bayonet Charges; the other was deemed "defensive" and would favour holding in position to benefit from shooting first. Most of these maps have my range bullseyes turned on, and you can also see in some of them Photoshop's ruler tool, which I use to check line of sight. Turn 1: spotting nearly, but not quite possible  Turn 2: The French will, as I hoped, have a traffic jam at the crossroads if they try to bring all their men in on the road at once. (It's designed to give the Germans a chance of fulfilling that objective of containing the French into a quarter of the map.)  Turn 3: The French plan was deemed to be to sweep round and attack out of the wood, so they could attempt to possibly cut off Germans attacking from the north-west corner; they should have charged here and swept away the German cav picket  Turn 4: Firing begins and I get my new markers out for the first time; this one means "dead", surprisingly enough.  Turn 5: The French cav runs for the woods as I test out ways of tracking pass-through fire  Turn 6: Everyone goes into Battle Order  Turn 7: Firing begins in earnest  Turn 8: The Germans launch a huge bayonet charge right as the French roll terribly Turn 9: The French 2nd Brigade begins retreating in absolute disorder  Turn 10: The 1st Brigade charges into Croissants  Turn 11: The 1st Brigade begins clearing Croissants, but the 2nd Brigade routs off-screen  Turn 12: It's all over bar the shouting  Turn 13: 2-0 to the Germans  The 1913 Manoeuvres will be conducted soon; the French will take up well-prepared positions around the SW crossroads and attempt to stop the Germans reaching their main objective. That'll be when we find out the effect of being in prepared positions instead of marching to contact and then switching to Defend. Also, by my calculations, that's 48 "killed" companies for an approximate 9,200 casualties, and a further 3,000 in 15 companies who decided they had something better to do and left the field. Not bad for a morning's work! vvv Don't you go pooh-poohing the Arse Hortillery, it had its own moment of glory at Nery in September 1914 before the war bogged down vvv Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Feb 12, 2017 |
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Feb 11, 2017 23:15
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Splode posted:Crazycryodude is going to ruin all our fun. I can't be mad at him because he's 100% correct, except for the part where he assumes I haven't spent the past three days cackling out loud. Now I understand why the villain never just orders his goons to shoot James Bond in the head! edit: if I were really mean I'd respond to a wholescale German redeployment by offering the French to flank march their reserve brigades to the bottom left corner, but that would be unfair and adversarial umpiring, if incredibly funny edit 2: unless I offered them both a flank march... Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 14:57
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Grey Hunter posted:Evil. The thing that I think might suprise players the most is that French infantry brigades have one machine-gun and no mortar and therefore are at a nasty (and historical) firepower disadvantage. Players might remember from the last game that the Germans get more artillery, but I don't see them anticipating that I'd take their MGs away. EDIT: So here's the balancing act; the French have 210 companies on-board, the Germans 195. The Germans have *much* more firepower, but it's all in stuff that needs to stop to shoot... Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Feb 14, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 17:23
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Right then. Both sides have finalised their Corps orders. Let's review the situation. Here's what they were told to do. French Orders German Orders General Mon Pere was kind enough to quickly sketch out his basic concept after I asked...  The Germans, meanwhile inform me that their philosophy is "Take Gooneville" via this method  after which, depending on circumstances, they will attempt to put into place one of two plans, either steinrokkan's Clemency:  or something called "Scrambled Eggs", which nobody ever posted in the thread and nobody could find it when I asked in Roll20 (and lectured them, again, about posting in the thread), but I am told, direct quote, "yeah its just a straight line from croissants to sunnyside hill". Which surely bodes well for the future. edit: Tevery Best confirms it is this plan
Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Feb 13, 2017 |
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Feb 13, 2017 22:23
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I must admit, just the process of setting out playtests and running them through to see what happens has been plenty of fun, even without loving with the heads of nearly 20 goons at once. Speaking of which... The 1913 Army Manoeuvres With the Germans winning 2-0, clearly the final major playtest scenario had to be one which stacked the deck in favour of the French. Two brigades per side again, plus Jaegers for the Germans (since I tested the Cavalry Brigade last time round), but both sides have taken casualties. The French have been pushed back from Saint Croissant and are now defending the approach to Quatreprouts; and critically, they have had time to entrench and put up barbed wire. Here we see what the effect of prepared positions and cover might be. Starting positions:  By turn 3, things had escalated quickly  The rest of the enemy impaled itself on the wire, so I rewound quickly to turn 3 and implemented a sanity clause allowing the infantry to ignore their orders and dodge round it to get in the trench, because I wanted to see what would happen in trench fighting; by turn 5 we had this:  Left brigade is retreating suppressed but right brigade and the Jagers are making progress: by Turn 7 they've routed the French right (and the German left has gone the same way)   This is the German high-water mark and I re-ran what happened next several times to fine-tune my custom trench fighting mechanics (it's almost like I know this war is going to end in trench warfare); I was happiest with the situation where by Turn 11 this had happened:  The furthest they ever made it round before running out of steam was to the left brigade commander, and then I decided the mechanic favoured the attacker too much and rebalanced it  and by turn 14 the last German brigade commander was shot down; his two surviving guns are hopelessly outnumbered; a clear French victory to make the final score after three years of manoeuvres 2-1 to the Germans. Takeaways: The 1912 scenario involved an extensive march to combat and lasted IIRC about 9 turns. In 1913 the two sides started on top of each other and it still took 14 turns to be sure the Germans weren't going to launch a Roy of the Rovers comeback. Making best use of protective cover is going to be absolutely crucial, as is good luck to shoot the enemy down before they can get into your cover and put some stick about. Next time: Getting the keys to the fireworks factory Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Feb 15, 2017 |
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Feb 15, 2017 01:53
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I just posted a pre-battle questionnaire in each thread. Y'all can look for the first update at some point tomorrow evening, at a rough guess around 7pm GMT, but that's just a guess. Some more notes on the scenario. It's primarily designed for maximum entertainment purposes without reference to history or geography; but its loose influences do include the battles of Charleroi, Guise, the Ourcq, and First Picardy. This is still very much a war of manoeuvre and, assuming this all goes to plan, I've another scenario in mind for the 1914 rules, prior to the onset of trench warfare, whose influences I shall remain quiet about for now to avoid tipping players off. When I drew the map, I knew I wanted two sides entering from nearby corners and with objectives in their opposite corner, where they were intended to think the enemy will come from, thus pulling them in an X shape. I also knew I wanted a big fat objective in the middle; that created the idea of a crossroads, except a crossroads would make it too easy to get to by road, so I put in a railway line instead. This also has the nice side effect of dividing the map into four rough quarters, which will be useful when deciding how well each side has fulfilled their objective 3 (pin the French in/occupy as much territory as possible). Priority 1, then, was creating four separate-but-equal corners which would be equally convincing as starting and finishing points; they all have a similar number of towns that could be used as HQ locations or objectives, and similar road access. The French corner was deliberately designed with an awkward crossroads to make them think for a few moments about logistics; the Germans were given a slightly more open run down to Saint Croissants, for reasons which I'll go into in a moment. Lob a few more hills in to facilitate spotting, a few woods in to obstruct it and provide cover, a few farms for additional cover and comedy purposes (I always knew I wanted a mechanic to reflect the real-life practice of stealing anything that wasn't nailed down to build fieldworks and compensate for major logistics issues, and letting the engineer confiscate additional barbed wire from farms was an easy leap from there), et voila, one map. It's only ever had the form in which you see it now and was never revised; everything works just about as intended. On the balance of forces, it's designed to reflect reality while also being playable; the balance is somewhat asymmetric. French infantry brigades have only one MG (and fewer guns in total backing them up), but if they can close to contact, bayonet charges are very powerful and cavalry charges are absolutely beastly (except nobody wants to launch one, which is predictable but irritating). The issue, like in the real war, is not that a cavalry or bayonet charge is ineffective on the Western Front (there was a successful cavalry charge at High Wood in mid-1916, for God's sake); it's that they may have to dodge a shitload of fire on their way to contact and might never make it. If they can close to contact, they'll wreck poo poo very quickly. This asymmetric balance is also reflected in the special brigade I've given to each side. The French have a cavalry brigade; it's about speed and mobility. The Germans have a super-durable super-infantry battalion that should not rout and which if I were using it would be held out of the initial fighting but not sent off on scouting duty; it'd wait just behind the line and then be committed either to follow up success or reverse failure. So the Germans get more pure firepower; they get more field guns and more howitzers and more MGs and bonus mortars, but it's all less mobile than what the French have got. They also have fewer infantry companies and fewer companies in general. They have a force that should win despite the numerical disparity as long as all its parts are in place and not moving and, critically, all the artillery is unlimbered before the French arrive. If the French charge even stationary German positions with no fieldworks, I expect them to get mullered and this is going to be Charleroi. If the French charge before the Germans can get their MGs and field guns in place, this might just be the Ourcq instead.
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Feb 16, 2017 03:51
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The game has begun and the Germans have had the better of the first exchange. Germans French Laugh? I nearly cried. Time for bed. Analysis and everything-switched-on maps coming tomorrow. This took far too long, but most of it was my fault taking a short cut to mushrooms instead of following my plan to keep track of what everything was doing..
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Feb 17, 2017 03:32
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markus_cz posted:
The positions on La Cote and Pasteur Ridge offer almost perfect spotting for where everyone is at the moment; but it's perfect spotting for units which are still moving, so everyone can both see and be seen. If the units up there stop, their "can be spotted at" range goes back down to 12".
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Feb 17, 2017 13:00
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French update German update The German Roll20's gruntle is now thoroughly dissed. It is now Turn 7. Again, more analysis to come.
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Feb 17, 2017 21:36
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The French Roll20 is, ahem, optimistic. This will surely end well.
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Feb 18, 2017 14:37
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New update. Marvin the Martian will not be disappointed with it. Germans French There was, indeed, an earth-shattering kaboom. It is now Turn 9, 11am. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Feb 19, 2017 |
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Feb 19, 2017 02:50
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Final thought for tonight. 57 French companies lost, 73 German. The French started with 210 companies and now have 153 on the board. The Germans started with 195, added 34 more in reinforcements; they have 156 on the board. The French army commander will intervene at 52 companies or less, the German army commander at 57 or less. The French in Roll20 right now are making GBS threads themselves because "They seem to have more of everything." Hmmm.
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Feb 19, 2017 03:43
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I keep division commands switched off at all times unless I'm moving them (or unless there's a reason for someone to spot them moving around), so I don't inadvertently show them to the wrong teams. For the French, 6th Division is in Baguende and 22nd Division is in Clemenceau. For the Germans, 19th Division is in the Old Forest NW of Nainville as it moves to Bouclecourt, and 43rd Division is hiding itself amongst the men of the western (5th) reserve brigade as it moves to St Croissant. The missing 75s are going to roll back out of the Bois de Tigre in about 4-6 turns' time. I was going to withhold the 155s for X+3 turns and then give them back, but then Slim Jim Pickens went and violated the fourth rule of war; those rules being as follows: 1). Do not march on Moscow. 2). Do not go fighting with your land armies in China. 3). Do not split the party. 4). Do not speculate about what horrors and misfortunes might be in store for you later in the campaign, because And the idea of the 155s rolling back onto the map in the semi-drunken company of a BEF brigade is far, far, far too funny to pass up. (My attitude towards that mis-order is generally that you don't have what you don't think you have, but he only forgot them in one out of multiple images and they were properly attached by the division commander, so he gets them back after a suitable delay.) Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Feb 20, 2017 |
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Feb 20, 2017 18:38
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The thread will note that the orders require each side to take and hold their corner objective, and mention that there is a timer involved. They will be unpleasantly surprised if they think that just entering the objective unopposed and getting a runner off the board will be enough to give them victory, and then I will laugh. Now, here's something I'd really like to draw your attention to. After having dropped a massive bollock in failing to guard against the possibility of me loving with them by having both teams start from the right of the map, Tevery Best has this time chosen to listen to Cassandra (in the person of crazycryodude, the one who had me bang to rights on Turn 0 and got roundly ignored): quote:Crazycryodude (GM): Just tossing my speculation on the pile, but I'm pretty sure the French win objective is the town in the top left - it's a symmetrical setup. Trin starts us both on the same side and has us rush for objectives directly opposite so we get a nice big Charlie Foxtrot around St. Croissant So Tevery puts on his thinking Pickelhaube, and he comes up with this ITGT: Tevery Best posted:Guys, I need your opinions on a new plan. In the German thread he goes on at much more length, but that's the gist of it. He's figured out that less than half the board is important, and holding the east is singularly unimportant to winning the game. This was very much in my mind when I was designing the map; it was a major reason for why I went for an oblong rather than a square battlefield, and is also why the telephone (and reinforcement) zones run corner-to-corner along the long edges. Would either side work this out and attempt to orient themselves N/S instead of E/W or diagonally in order to shorten their line? (This is also why those two objective 3s exist, the ones that tell the Germans to pin the French and the French to occupy as much territory as possible - they're there as a red herring to obscure the fact that a N/S line can hold St Croissant and both corner objectives behind it.) What I'd like to know now is: if Mon Pere calls for reinforcements, where does he bring them in? Does he notice that I've given him both ends of the mid-board E/W Bread Road, possibly soon to become der Brotstrasse? And if so, does he bring his fresh men in at Baguende, literal miles away from the action (it's no accident that I put all my Shire LotR jokes in the map's own irrelevant backwater), or in the west where they can hop, skip and jump to their objective? I think that there's every chance here that what we're seeing is a vitally important moment; the French are still fundamentally reacting to what's happened, with no real attempt to analyse what it means or how it helps them. Across the way, the Germans are, perhaps out of necessity, being forced to challenge all their assumptions, even some of the ones they didn't realise they were making. There's still a long way to go, but for my money, this is the most positive moment for the Germans since the game began and offers them a real chance of winning the battle for the first time. (Also, prospective players for later rounds, take note: after Turn 7 the Germans were wailing and gnashing their teeth in Roll20 and moaning like the sky had just fallen and telling each other how utterly doomed they were. Just two turns later and now the picture looks completely and totally different.) Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Feb 21, 2017 |
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Feb 21, 2017 01:03
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We are now halfway through the first day, and the commanders are halfway through their men. If this rate of attrition continues, one or both of the army commanders will call a halt by (IRL) this time next week and (ingame) in about 8-16 turns' time. French thread German thread 44,800 men no longer fighting, although about half of those are routed. It's a new take on the Prisoner's Dilemma; either I attack and you defend and you win; or you attack and I defend and I win; or we both attack and we both lose... Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Feb 22, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 03:13
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My own system; you don't need a fiddly little system with a point to Gryffindor for capturing everything that would be marked on an Ordnance Survey map to ensure focused combat, as we've just seen. Their superiors (and the historians) will judge them depending on how well they've fulfilled the four objectives given to them in their orders, and determine a winner. General Mon Pere calls for his pipe and he calls for his bowl and he calls for his reinforcements three, which unlike the Germans (who started outnumbered, let's remember) will be dribbled slowly into the battle. I wouldn't be too disappointed if the lines settled down roughly where they are now, it'd set up some fun and games in 1915. If the Germans could get two or three brigades moving now, they still stand a reasonable chance of getting into Quatreprouts (which the BEF might well have some trouble finding, at least in terms of using the optimal road, tee hee), especially if they did it with a big loop round the left-hand side of the Bois de Bacon, but the question is whether Tevery Best can rally morale enough to get that done, and to move in enough force to get it done. Again, we're in a historical situation which is exactly what I'm hoping for; both sides may well now try to learn from the morning's events by turtling up and becoming overly cautious, when a run to their corner objectives is still far from out of the question and would be quite possible if carried out quickly and boldly. Yes, being on the defensive is to be at an advantage, but if you can get there first and go defensive first...
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Feb 22, 2017 09:55
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The Cassandra Files, Part Two Crazycryodude is a clever person with much insight into the kind of mean and sneaky tricks I like to perpetrate upon my players. Maestro, the chat log please! quote:Crazycryodude (GM): I'm worried about them being able to call in reinforcements on basically any map edge in the bottom half or so They are, incidentally, both correct; the map was drawn so it looked roughly right, but the telephone map and initial deployment zones were then chosen with careful precision. quote:Crazycryodude (GM): See, that's the trap he wants you to all into Guilty, yeronner! The part of this I enjoy the most, by the way (and there are many such parts) is the bit where they keep assuming that the French are acting coolly and calmly and with perfect logic and understanding, instead of bumblefucking cluelessly around in much the same way as they themselves are being forced to  (note for when the persons involved read this thread: love you, just trying to provide a little bread and circuses for the great unwashed) (note for everyone currently reading this thread: rest assured I am fully confident in your ability to clean yourselves)
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Feb 22, 2017 17:51
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Update up! It's now 3pm, and the fate of the battle hangs in the balance. French German Tevery Best is pissing himself with delight. The French are just pissing themselves. The BEF brigade, by the way, will be arriving in 1d4 [edit: 2] turns time from the base of the Bois de Tigre, having got slightly lost on the way, but having also found and brigaded two missing French 155mm guns... So, the grand old Graf von Yorck has successfully marched his men to the top of the hill. The question now becomes; will he march them down again, and if so, on which side? Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 00:58
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Yes. You're missing that the BEF is going to come onto the map in a completely different place from where the French planned (yes, I'm horrible), and that the French's only thought during the last planning phase was to use the reinforcement brigade as cover while the BEF enters from the left edge (which it won't) and marches up to the objective. The BEF is going to get sidetracked into defending Quatrepouts. The reinforcement brigade will have to roll really well to change its orders and it'll be painfully obvious where they're going if they're observed moving again - they're also green and make three morale checks. I'm far from convinced that the Germans will take Quatrepouts, but if I were betting, I'd have my money on them to take their corner objective.
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Feb 24, 2017 01:06
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The situation is asymmetric, but I wouldn't say "unbalanced". They did start with more chits (and will have a comfortable 25-chit advantage when the BEF arrives) and got off to a flying start by removing that entire German division from the board, don't forget; and they've also benefited by being able to bring in their reinforcements from a much more northerly position than the Germans would have been able to in an equivalent situation. edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KylMqxLzNGo  about 14,000 casualties in this image, not including the routed Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Feb 24, 2017 |
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Feb 24, 2017 03:03
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Precise figures: the French started with 210 companies and have added 13 for 223 total. The Germans started with 195 and have added 34 for 229 total. The French have lost 117 and have 106 remaining. The Germans have lost 128 and have 101 remaining. General Lyautey will call the battle if the French get down to 55 companies remaining (that figure will increase when the BEF arrives in two turns and increases the French total). General Kuno will call the battle if the Germans get down to 57 companies remaining; again, that number increases if they take more reinforcements.
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Feb 24, 2017 14:11
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ViggyNash posted:Looks like the French are in good spirits. They are cautiously optimistic about the situation (perhaps not cautious enough), but seem to be counting on the B.E.F. to be the last nail in the coffin. Trin, they're gonna be so mad... (also you should ABSOLUTELY send my dad's special message to the Germans) I am fully expecting some primo pointy-hatted salt when the BEF appears out of that wood and the Germans start trying to convince themselves that they're hopelessly doomed all over again. I also find it deeply interesting how Tevery was talking so boldly about a wholescale redeployment into the west a few days ago, and yet they've still got a division's worth of men east of St Croissant that doesn't look likely to move any time soon. Mon Pere seems now to be pushing for something similar, but the men he wants to move are both weakened and literally on the wrong side of the map, if they do move at all, which judging by the German experience, they very well might not as pessimism leaks down through the ranks. If the French 97th takes one more casualty on Dejeuner Ridge, it checks; if the German 78th takes four more (and they've got four suppressed companies going into this turn) it checks - and they're the ones with the heavy artillery. What happens if both of them evaporate? Do both sides go "woah gently caress okay we gotta back up here" and grind to an undignified halt, fearing phantom enemies that might be out there somewhere? Nuramor posted:How many reinforcements have each of the sides even left? What limit is there? A cromulent question. Each side has one brigade left to call on, but neither, if called for, will arrive until just before nightfall. If it looks like one side's on the verge of winning I might grant them one more on top of that to encourage them to push for it, but they're definitely not getting more (since they'd have had a full division's worth of reinforcements at that point). And no, there's no carry-over "well, you used 4 brigades in this battle, so now you only get 2" between battles; that's just not how things worked and interferes with my ability to design entertaining situations. Speaking of which! I just got done with the map for 1914 Part 2: for anyone in here now who's interested in playing on that map, I'm planning on a 10-to-14-day gap between the end of this battle and the start of the next one, and all I'm going to say is "the concept will be very different". If we continue at current speed we should be done with it next week or possibly the week after, so be ready for signups to open again after a couple of days for both sides to come back in here and chew the fat and learn lessons.
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Feb 25, 2017 01:53
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Four critically important turns are now in the books. It's 5pm; there are six turns of daylight remaining. French/British Germans Read them in that order, and then come back here and note the spoilered observation that the Germans have achieved their corner objective, and critically, the French have not spotted any companies going into Quatreprouts. A German win of some sort is now all but guaranteed, unless something very odd happens during the night. Greatbacon posted:For the next rounds of combat (1914,1915, et al) are you planning on using the same map? Or will each new round be in a new location? We will be returning to previously-used maps at some point; there will be some carry-over between years depending on what happens.
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Feb 26, 2017 00:55
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Well, regardless of what they know and don't know, General Mon Pere has just made a...courageous decision. Through information passed to me privately, I happen to know that he is intending to lead this cavalry brigade personally. Saddle up! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzRmp-O496Y
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Feb 26, 2017 02:25
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The thing to do for the French is absolutely to wait until nightfall, get everyone together, and then the BEF and two or three other French brigades launch a combined, pre-planned, simultaneous offensive against wherever. The best I see them doing, though, is retaking a lot of territory and killing a lot of enemies, and so cancelling out the Germans' having taken their objectives and the French having failed to take theirs, for a stalemate. I could be wrong, night operations (for which I just posted the rules) are going to be very, very interesting indeed. On the subject of Cryo, I did briefly get worried after he went on a run in Roll20 where he basically predicted everything, and then I just waited ten minutes and all his team-mates thoroughly pooh-poohed him, so it didn't end up mattering. Dude either needs to take a corps command or namechange next time he plays. oystertoadfish posted:also is there any way this game/lp methodology could simulate the horrors of the italian front? it's probably the field of action most like the western front (aside from gallipoli maybesorta) but like 5000 feet up in the mountains and with even worse generals, is the vague impression i've gotten There are rules for Italian and Austro-Hungarian forces, but I'm currently not planning anything on the Italian Front because the defining feature of an Italian Front battle is that you attack uphill at a 45-degree angle and lose and don't advance anywhere. Much like Gallipoli (and I may yet do something based off the Suvla Bay landings), it's all but impossible to accurately simulate how difficult it was to do anything at all without making the game not fun. (You attempt to advance. Your men fall into six separate deres that their maps did not tell them were there. You advance at 1" per turn. You die. The survivors now all have dysentery.) Eastern Front, Salonika, Mesopotamia; maybe, if we all get bored with the trenches and need a bit of open warfare again to keep things fresh, but the trouble with Gallipoli and the Italian Front is that they were too static and sclerotic and favourable to the defender, while the Western Front was capable of moving a mile or few at a time with the application of sufficient force and hard-headedness.
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Feb 26, 2017 11:07
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V. Illych L. posted:i honestly feel like the french were a little harshly punished for that heavy artillery cock-up They're now a lot closer to Quatreprouts, where they might actually be useful (as the only Entente guns on the map which can fire into a town), than they would be otherwise; they're also now part of a veteran brigade instead of a regular one and are less likely to rout.
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Feb 27, 2017 11:57
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My reading is that the BEF is on a hiding to nothing if it tries to advance alone and without the cover of darkness. I guess we're about to find out whether that's so!
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Feb 27, 2017 18:50
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After a couple of delays I just am now adjudicating Turn 22, just finished the movement phase, and all I can say is  Spoilers: Someone finally launched a cavalry charge. It stands an excellent chance of making it to combat!
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Feb 27, 2017 22:32
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Turn 24 just ended. The adjudication is taking double the time it needs to because I just keep stopping to stare at the map and occasionally shake my head in utter  disbelief.
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Feb 28, 2017 01:30
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